Thomas Loy Bumgarner

i remember Bill and Gloria Gaither threatened a lawsuit for changing I'm so glad to be part of the family of God. That was quickly dropped from the blue Sing along the Way

I am surprised Willie Nelson and Waylon Jennings didn't sue The Way for copyright infringement. But what's new? Wierwille wasn't sued either

VPW Magna opus JCING was poor church history and implying works from Bullinger, Lamsa(and Errico), JW, WCOG, Unitarians, Christian Science, Quakers, etc.Lynn/Schoenheit/Grasser made a slightly better case in CES/ST&F's book One God and one Lord. This plus JCOP/Word's Way(Bullinger, Lamsa, PIllai), and JCOPS/Ernest Martin/Word's Way/Bullinger/Lamsa and Errico/ Pillai was to explain everything about Jesus Christ. btw, I now believe in the Holy Trinity but I can not make anyone agree with me. Video classes like Alpha, Christian Believer(United Methodist), Foundations(Saddleback), Open Home, Open Bible(All Soul's Langham Place, London) all mention the Trinity. Check them out.

17 hours ago, waysider said:

Mike, give me a break. Point of view has nothing to do with it. It's right there in black and white. Did you even look at the comparisons?  Wierwille clearly copied that material, almost word for word. Suppose the subject had been farm machinery or furniture repair, would it have been copying then or would that just be a "point of view"?

obviously Mike thought JJ was lying and a bigot

19 hours ago, chockfull said:

Hold on there, Don Quixote.   WLIL, although a meandering tale to impress a young woman, is important not because of some VP canonized God breathed statement in it, but it gives all the detail regarding how VP came to plagiarize JE Stiles material after being helped out at an Oral Roberts event.  This includes really verifiable BS like Vic's misogynistic mindset where he raised his opinion of JE Stiles when he spoke harshly to his wife.   Nowhere else is Vic's tall tales of fictitious snow on gas pumps recorded, which has long since been compared against weather records and debunked.

Nay young joust master, it is not a mere obscure book, it is a masterful tale of how a pervy old dude spins his own history to impress a young hippie chick.  

Every bit as God-breathed as the whiskey infused tales told young ladies around bars across the world on a weekend night.

Carry on joust master.

I doubt Stiles spoke harshly to his wife, otherwise she would have beaten the sh-t out of him and called the police.

Still have it and originally thought it was neat. Now I consider it propaganda. Likewise Harry Wierwille's book

4 hours ago, Taxidev said:

Not at all.  Plagiarism is when you just copy someone else's work without permission.  There are so many books out there that have been compiled from the works of other authors that are not instances of plagiarism.  Also, if a blurb is copied from another work, and the original author and source are referenced, then that also is not plagiarism.

So, while it is not plagiarism, it is dishonest to pretend, as VPW and Tony Robbins have done, that the information was all figured out on their own.  I have much more respect for JCOPS by VPW than I do the classes he put together.  It's a relatively simple matter to include a bibliography and references in a book than it is on stage or in front of a camera.  But the class syllabus could have had them, even if it was just to show who was used as a source.

I wonder how many wayers know who Ernest L Martin is.  His name is in the bibliography of JCOPS.  This is the biblical scientist, not associated with TWI, that determined, through astronomy and computers, the date of Jesus Christ's birth.  And while he is in the bibliography, I never saw a reference to him when VPW specified the date.

Martin was originally associated with Herbert and Garner Ted Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God. He left in the late 70's and started his own ministry ASK- Ascertain Scriptural Knowledge.

I wonder if he already had Bullinger's books before he spoke to Rosalind Rinker. He probably also had Ruben Archer Torrey's materials, Albert Benjamin Simpson, Smith Wigglesworth. Kenyon, Austin-Sparks, Watchman Nee and Witness Lee, Watch Tower/JW, etc. in cluding John Nelson Darby and Plymouth Brethern, all between 1940 and 1960.

Poor Mikey, his addiction is scripture originally was perfect but sinful human beings purposely decided to pervert them, hence poor translations and not understanding Semetic mid-eastern culture, so radically different than Europe(Greek, Roman, Germanic, and British). Like VPW, he has no knowledge of History, church or secular

I had not heard of the Assembly(problobably  similiar to Children of God), but the similliarity to TWI  is striking. I wonder if that gropu was influenced by House of Acts in San Francisco/Oakland.

3 hours ago, chockfull said:

Hey GoldStar,

No worries.  i was starting to look into verses covered in VPW's publication Jesus Christ is Not God.  That was where my soliloquy was driving anyway LOL 

Thomas firsthand accounts with the resurrected Christ were the first stop.  VPW in the book explains those as an orientalism meaning "my godly lord" all lower caps.  I find him on shaky ground with that explanation, but maybe there is a better explanation.

Any thoughts on those?

I guess there are a lot of ways to discuss the trinity.  I've been surprised at even common definitions of the term.

VPW misused Bullinger's Figures of Speech book, Lamsa's materials on OT and NT commentaries(Rocco Errico up the ante on Aramaic), Pillai, and other Socialistic culture and customs by James Freeman, Fred Wight, Abraham Ribadney. So does Spirit and Truth Fellowship. Actually the other 2 books on Jesus Christ(Passover and Promised Seed) was more informated because of the research team led by Walter Cummins.. Schoenheit and Grasser wrote a book called One God and Lord, which does Church history a bit better that VPW.

Wish Goldstar would introduce himself so we can understand his background

BTW, who was that masked man, Tonto? It was the Lone Stranger, portrayed by Dictor Wierdwillie, Cragsie, and Chrissy Gear

I never understood why Wierwille didn't have Way Builders build dormitories  at HQ and build class rooms for his University of Life(seminary), and get rid of the trailer park for residences for staff and teachers instead of purchasing Emporia and Rome City.

18 hours ago, GoldStar said:

Hi Penworks, 

That is very interesting that you would say that, it would be very interesting to be able to verify that we are talking about the same Cat Woman (there are many of them here where I live, and I have even seen more than one publicly at Woman outfits), but I do not have a picture of the Cat Woman in question and my memory is too vague to sketch a reasonable facsimile of her. 

Of course if seeing her happened today, it might have been possible to surreptiously snap a quick picture of her with my phone and text it to you, but alas, phone cameras were not around back then.  I received a picture of someone I was dating all the way from across the the other side of the world (Rome) a few years ago, my the wonders of technology.  She was not a Cat Woman, she was more of a Dog Woman, and our dating ended abruptly when she began to bark and bite.

I was invited to a live presentation of that "awful dance production" as you call it, if I recall correctly, it may have been the very first public presentation of it, and I even met some of the dancers. I do not remember whether the Cat Woman I saw at the cafeteria was the lead dancer in the dance production, I don't even remember thinking about that at the time. But that dance production never reached Broadway and has been out of production for a long time.  But I believe the Broadway musical Cats did have a very long run. I believe there were Cat Women in that production also.

I don't remember the dance production in excruciating detail since the memory of it has faded in my mind, although I do remember someone telling me that LCM had stated that that particular dance production idea was stolen from him (by spirits) and used as the foundation for parts of the movie "Stayin' Alive" with JT.

And thank you for your welcome, I did read some of your posts here before signing up, and you seem to be one of the good-willed, well-reasoned people here, I hope that we can have good intellectual conversations here.

I am familiar with some TWI history because over a period of time, I was invited to numerous events and activities and teachings where I saw many interesting things, including Cat Woman.  But I never saw Bat Man or Robin. But coincidentally, I am actually watching Wonder Woman (the old TV series) on TV right now.  Linda Carter had such natural beauty.  I also fed a couple of feral cats (one female, black) that come around to my place frequently, but only because I feed them occasionally.  I learn so much by observing their behavior, both in their interactions with me, and with each other.

I have made a couple of good real cat friends in the past, by feeding them and winning their affection even though at first they were both very skittish (or kittish - lol), but they eventually ended up letting me pet them, and one would even come to my front door and knock on it with his head to let me know when he arrived for his meals.

It amazed me that I could make friends with another, wild species.  If only the cat women of this area were as friendly :)

And thank you for you offer to help.  I will take a look at your profile.  Maybe we can compare notes and learn some history from each other.  I enjoy learning. I enjoy watching cats. And I have met some Cat Women, but have never been scratched by one, though some have tried. :)

P.S. ~ did you know that it is not a good idea to publish personal information like your full name on publicly available websites like this one - it's to protect your id - just a suggestion

P.S.S. ~ how can you be sure that the Cat Woman I saw is the same one who starred in the dance production.  Isn't it possible it was another Cat Woman with a similar body suit?  Did the one you refer to have dark hair or light hair?

Holy Feline, Dynamic Duo.LOL

On 12/26/2017 at 8:17 PM, So_crates said:

On the contrary, Saint Vic wanted to appear uber-intellectual. Why else insist everyone refer to him as "Doctor"?

Because they thought he was a Time Lord?

On 10/10/2017 at 7:43 PM, Bolshevik said:

Probably.

Would his followers have respected him more, or less, for citing sources?  

At least it would have been more honest than claiming originality

I invited Goldstar to share his background to TWI in the forum relating to new members. I don't know what set him off about Graham. Btw, the proper forum is in memory, not About The Way.

A far better man than VPW ever was(probably jealous and I doubt Billy knew Weird Willie)

Lutherans, Episcopalians/Anglicans, Roman Catholics, United Methodists, Moravians observe Advent. While official Presbyterians and Reformed Churches list it in their hymnals and books of worship, not all congregations observe it.

Cat Woman wasn't Rosie the riverter?

22 hours ago, So_crates said:

Actually, there is no truth in the PLAF version presented by Mike

 

Please note Saint Vic's argument was that Jesus Christ was the exception because he was not of Adam and that the devil owns Adam's race.

Well, as all people are relatives of both Adam and Eve, doesn't that make Mary, mother of Jesus, a member of Adam's race and therefore Jesus, a member of Adam's race?

The following page illistrates what I'm saying:

http://www.ldolphin.org/2adams.html

Further, I'm still waiting for an explanation of how eating from a forbidden tree implies transfer of ownership.

Some of The Way implied that Mary was a guinea pig and that both the egg and semen/sperm was created by God to prevent blood transfusion, both had different DNA/genome. Adam was with Eve when Satan deceived them when eating from tree of Good and Evil, which meant we don't want God chaperoning/spying on us, thus the 2 of them did treason against God.

What Mike is saying, I am addicted to PFAL and particularly to the collaterals(supplemented materials). If I give them up, my life is worthless, I can't face reality. In my mind, they give me comfort. Did I get this right, what you are really saying to us?

4 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Me, naïve? Shirley, you jest.

I left wayville more than 30 years ago. I didn't see any reason to go into a nauseating level of detail.

Don't call me Shirley

Jean deLuise(?) supposedly is new President, but Rosalie and Donna run everything