Rocky

The question I intended to ask wasn't "relatively speaking." The question I asked was a response to this statement you (old skool) made. If you meant something different, please clarify. You also said, "On the other hand, respectful discussion of his view points and advocated positions is fair game and I am more than willing to delve into any facet of what he publicly taught. " Is that not what was taking place when you took issue with posting the video of JAL?

That's the nugget in this discussion. A situation which, with emotional health and maturity called for compassion for the person's family, was made all about them. Hence, apparent evidence of the cultic and narcissistic nature of the organization..

To this point you made, brother, I don't see the current situation as analogous to what twi would do to go into attack mode to "protect the ministry" from blame. Which twi practice obviously is sinister and narcissistic. It's also difficult, based on the timing of JALs passing and this discussion arising, to separate the two. I'd welcome your further insight on issues surrounding the twi practice.

I personally see nothing in your post that would warrant any censorship. It's cogent and on topic, at least for the subject person whose passing brought the issue to the fore.

JAL was not, except to long ago ex-twi followers, a public figure. I have not read anywhere that he has been cited by politicians or mass media. Do you understand otherwise?

It also occurs to me to wonder whether when this happens in twi, they point people to video of the person boldly proclaiming that which they disapprove of. Is character assassination vs calling attention to specific words behavior at all parallel to teaching children that what they do is unacceptable as opposed to saying they are bad children?

I don't disagree that it's worthy of discussion. I want(ed) to clarify that the sharp division on the JAL legacy thread was not and is not the same as the character assassinations you referred to. John's character and integrity certainly were not my target in any of my comments even though I can easily disagree with and criticize the content of his teaching. I also look forward to hearing from others on this topic.

Skyrider, Is this about critiquing JAL's legacy and his words as he posted (or approved posting) them on YouTube? If so, how long should one wait before calling out what amounts to, in the view of many, insane mythology that happens to put an indeterminate number of people who accepted his words in harms way right now? I still have fond remembrances of JAL. But his words were often not innocuous.

Includes saildrone video footage inside Hurricane Sam https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2021/09/30/hurricane-sam-saildrone-video-waves/

Come to think of it, while I was in tech school in Biloxi, MS, I also remember longing for a closer relationship with/knowledge of God. I was in that frame of mind. That was in the Fall of 1973. Got stationed overseas in the Spring of 1974. Met the guy from twi on Halloween 1974. He was confident and he promised what I was looking for. He had happened in on a small group meeting (fellowship) in the Base Chapel.

Was he a cousin of Charles Nelson Reilly?

I was overseas, on an island in the Atlantic Ocean. It wasn't anything about Wierwille. It was the confidence of the new guy in the Air Force who talked about "The Word." Hell, it was 46 years ago. I don't recall the details. It was months before we ran the first PFLAP class I sat through. However, I DO remember one detail of the first ROA I attended, in August 1975. Flies and learning how to kill them by stalking them with a two hand clap.

George, your comment highlights that many of us have fond remembrance of JAL based on long ago interactions and/or video or other communications with or from or about him. To me, it's unfortunate and very sad that he evolved his persona the way he did. These are his words and they reflect who he became over the years. I share this with you NOT to debate or discuss or bicker about the content of his views, just to document who he became. The vid claims it's from a "Biblical Worldview." That's debatable but hopefully not here. Frank Z has posted at GSC before... not using his real name (many of us don't anyway)

That's all I have. Was I supposed to pick up on anything else?

It certainly is conspicuous.

It was through the Arizona Corporation Commission. The Arizona Legislature changed the requirements.

Actually, there IS direct evidence, words out of his own mouth (youtube), to that effect. Perhaps at some point it will be appropriate to discuss it at GSC, but for now if you want to retain good remembrance of JAL, this a great place eulogy. There's always plenty of crap about every human by the time they hit their mid-70s, that eulogies are definitely in order at memorials and funerals.

That was my thought too... but I figured this is a time for eulogy, I chose not to say it out loud.

I didn't want to upstage the notice of JAL's passing in OPEN, so I figure in a few days it will be appropriate for mods to move this to that forum. This video will be available for two weeks, according to the call sponsor.

I certainly wasn't a devoted follower, but he was hard to not like.

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/573628-tropical-storm-sam-in-atlantic-expected-to-be-major-hurricane

According to his FB profile (because FB notified me), today would be (would have been) Garth's 67th birthday. I miss him.

Sam?

It is also important to recognize that what's on the thread that T-Bone linked to is not necessarily a complete or exhaustive list.