Rocky

Probably that he made mistakes. Everybody does.

Page 234-235, quoting wierwille. When I think of Townsend, I always remember hearing him talk about "your basic simple man." FACTS regarding what we know now, 50 years later (TW:LIL was first published in 1972) about wierwille's claim demonstrates beyond ALL doubt at the time twi could not deal with life's ambiguities and paradoxes.

40 or 50 years of one's life in many cases.

Okay then. Makes sense.

Attempt? Mike often succeeds/succeeded over the last 20 years to do so.

This youtube short from Ryan Holiday (author of several books on Stoic philosophy, including The Obstacle is the Way) stands in stark contrast to the propaganda from Johnny Townsend who I remember expounding on how simple life was for him.

I maintain that it was a form of hypnosis ... not unlike that used by demagogues in contemporary or past times.

Do you know which page? There's no index in the book. I'd love to dig up a quote from Townsend.

IMO, Mike lives in his own very small universe (self-limiting box).

Excuse my rudeness, but I have to take issue with characterizing anything Mike proclaims as "pure." All seriousness aside, I totally relate to the entirety of your comment from which I extracted three words just because I had an overwhelming sense of cognitive dissonance over the first word.

I think also of Johnny Townsend's propaganda claiming he was a simple man who believed simple (gobbledygook). Life is complicated. Ancient cultures and just having one guy to translate "orientalisms" and everything will be just fine... is total BS.

I don't think he has to worry about health care coverage anymore.

From the "Craig has his own spinoff" thread:

Other than that he demanded those things be kept in the "lockbox."

Nathan, if this post is going to endure over time, it might be a good idea to clarify. What it says you quoted from T-Bone was really T-Bone quoting what Wierwille used as his self-justifying rationalization. Then again, maybe I just did so for you. Nevertheless, I had to read both comments (your and T-Bone's) closely to figure it out.

Insightful message. Nevertheless, we CAN judge/evaluate/measure against known standards VPs/LCMs words and actions.

Hold all questions till the end of the last session. Seriously, however, I don't remember. Yet, peer pressure was paramount. I'd love to find out how many people started but didn't finish the IC. Regardless, for anyone who had the need for belonging to the group, I doubt this point would be a deal breaker.

Norm Crosby master of malapropisms

The MIRACLE of YouTube.

Did you mean to say viscous? Overall, this thread has an amazing list of problematic TWI teaching and practices. I am impressed. I'm wondering if Mike will show up and try to derail the thread... nah, I doubt it. Putting all these things in one thread was clever.

Truth!

I very much appreciate Fred's insight as quoted. The second paragraph I quoted above is very meaningful to me and has been for years. The way I look at it is such that we are the sum total of our experience and learning. Whether we remain victims of Wierwille's con game or not is within our power to decide. At least a few times, I have spelled out some of the things Vic and Loy influenced me to incorporate in my life and how those things have caused me pain in relationships for a long time. In some cases, the pain is ongoing. Yet, I wouldn't be who I am or know what I now know or be able to do or write what I do without having endured crucibles that forced me to face up to my faults and mistakes. I am content in my own skin and very thankful for being a survivor. Nevertheless, I expect to continue to confront, one way or another, BS like Mike's and cult-like nonsense I encounter in civic life. Btw, whether I agree with your values, Dear Reader, or not, I encourage you to exercise your citizenship and vote in the upcoming election. Thanks to early voting, I already have done so.

Not that I needed or expected an apology of any kind from you T-Bone, but I do appreciate your capacity to reflect and re-evaluate.

Rings true like church bells that can be heard for many miles."...if [SINCE] he has this mindset of rationalization..." Everybody does the same thing. Rationalization is a powerful defense emotional mechanism. As is denial. But I figure since you recognize these realities in a certain relative, you probably already know how pervasive and powerful the concepts are at protecting a person's emotional "well-being."

From Daily Stoic: OTOH, enduring the crucible undoubtedly changed Stockdale.