Rocky

Isn't this REALLY a doctrinal forum topic?

Perhaps you can find something you might be looking for on this thread.

Yes, very good and very succinct. For those in twi who are ready to hear, it's also quite salient.

They don't know better. Seems like EVERY religious institution (twi is obviously a very minor "institution") is only concerned about what is good for the organization. Not unlike the clergy-penitent privilege that protects child abusers in many states from being discovered. A huge factor for both the Mormon/LDS and Catholic Churches to PROTECT THEMSELVES. Not interested in what's best for the people they're supposed to serve. In the case of TWI and/or splinter groups, THEY can't go past what they know because they have no vision and nobody they want to trust has told them they CAN go further.

Word!

Perhaps true, yet he may have had a valid point about self-limiting lack of vision. That's why I cited Sheehy's Pathfinders, which book inspired me to go beyond what Wierwille taught. And to "think outside the box."

Yeah, a whole new world. I can't help but say AMEN (and AWOMEN) to the behavioral insights of your initial reflections and predictions. In a way... or put differently... RandR was a reactionary "movement." They grew fed up with aspects of the Wierwille cult and how it had malformed over the decades... and only wanted to go back to what they believed were the righteous aspects of the movement they "grew up" in. They aren't and weren't a visionary group with new ideas or new ways of looking at what they understood from their biblical studies or religious practices. What is it Victor used to teach? A person can't go farther (or was it further) than he is taught? At times like these I think back to a book Gail Sheehy wrote decades ago, Pathfinders. Originally published in 1982, I remember reading it in the 1990s. The late journalist (she succumbed to Covid, before there was a vaccine, IIRC) was a true visionary and had plenty of insight that the R and R bots could have (or could still) use(d) to get out of the Wierwille mold. (two separate legit usages of "mold" intended here). Anyway, Skyrider, I again appreciate your insight... ... and Chockfull's insight too. For individuals involved, I can't honestly answer it either. However, as a group, or as a movement hoping to actually revitalize groups of followers of Wierwille, it seems obvious to me that they lack necessary the ability to "think" or envision outside of the box they've been trapped in (of their own choosing) for decades.

What a WONDERFUL couple of analogies, figures of speech. Not a transformer. Can and should we take LITERALLY the "fact" Jesus Christ is "right now seated at the right hand of God..." IF it were literal, how would it be depicted in images and stories? What the heck does it mean, in literal, factual, truth? Or is it a story told down through the ages... to depict a certain truth? You know, kinda like Greek, Roman, or Norse mythology? I know, that's

Yet, one thing he wasn't when he was in human form on earth is Caucasian. That's a cool video clip, but I had cognitive dissonance when they used Jim Caviezel's image and clips, in it.

I'm not sure if this is a reasonable way to characterize this topic, but it sure sounds like vain babbling to me.

Sigh... there Mike goes yanking everyone else on the thread by a chain while he cannot and does not do anything but obfuscate. It boggles my mind to consider why people still let him do it.

There you go supposing again. Btw, I asked my questions before you posed your "two moderately difficult questions."

Why do you "suppose" anything about anyone? Why would you not simply pose the question, do any of the posters here find the expressions "HIDDEN Christ" or "absent Christ" repulsive, or otherwise believe they are inappropriate? If so, please explain the reason for your belief and/or feelings.

I hope so too. to Tiredgirl.

Holy CARP! Classic projection is what that looks like.

How did Mike get the "good fruit," ostensibly as a result of believing in the Word of Victor in the PFLAP class, in his life before he started to believe Victor's claims? In some sense, Mike's story has been consistent through the decades. But not in this sense. He's got a somewhat elaborate story, but to try to make it fit as a rebuttal on this thread, he appears to be confused. I'm not going to challenge "Mike's story." I, however, DO challenge his effort to insert logic into it. Mike failed in that effort. Could it have been--in Mike's life--that he really did get hypnotized (or otherwise captured by Victor's "theatrics") by Victor's words BEFORE looking for any "good fruit" in Victor's life?

Because that tiny handful of people are/were blinded by the light. Or blinded somehow anyway. This takes me back to Dacher Keltner's 2016 book, The Power Paradox. Wierwille is vividly and easily recognized in the four power principles Keltner together says are all about abuse of power.

Technically, the concept of (and the word) citizen and citizenship didn't arise in common use until long after David's era. What we now consider citizens, then (I think) were considered "subjects." Perhaps nowadays in the UK, a person is (or can be) both a citizen and a subject. That said, semantically and rhetorically, your point is the same, if my understanding is even close to being correct. Nevertheless, Wierwille wasn't a king, didn't have a kingdom lawfully, and I'm confident he could easily have been convicted of sexual offenses based on what we know of his history.

TWI is nothing if not all about magical thinking and narcissism. Rationalization to the Nth degree. As if "BUT GOD" has ordained this cult with special magical powers or something. Here's an illustration of twi's closed loop spiral... with illustrative perspective.

Blah blah blah. Yada yada yada. LAME excuse. Multiple people made the suggestion, YOU didn't heed the suggestion. That's on NO ONE but you. Could the REAL reason for your choice to not start a separate thread be... maybe you feared no one would engage with your nearly incoherent rambling? IDK. Nevertheless, it's STILL on you and you alone to either post or not post rather than derail other threads.

That somehow reeks of narcissism and insecurity. More than one person suggested you start a new thread (i.e. LIKE THIS ONE) instead of continuing to derail the other thread. Just say what you want to say and let go of the self-centered nonsense. Are you going to be criticized? Undoubtedly. Will it be personal criticism or rebuttal of what readers disagree with? Who cares? YOU come here to disagree. Either do it or go home (so to speak).

and no, I am not the source of Twinky's private message quoted in her comment.