Rocky

Here's another thing that we, in TWI, thought was US as individuals tapping into the power of a specific God. Meditation alone in nature. 42 or 43 years ago, I spent a year as a Wow in Fremont, Ohio. In the Spring of 1982, I started spending some time in a small woods environment along Muskellunge Creek Road, immediately south of State Street. It was my happy place. I felt like I was communing with God. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=fremont+ohio+map&atb=v353-1&t=chromentp&iaxm=maps&source=maps What was really happening is better described as achieving a FLOW state. The irony, looking back on it, is in that it was and is something that is not at all unique to TWI or any other flavor or sect of Christianity. It took me a VERY LONNNNNGGG time to recognize and realize this aspect of FLOW. When I did, it was freeing in a very real way. I could accomplish things without reference to anything Wierwille. As far as a biblical key, I found it in Proverbs 2: 1-5. It took many long hours (over the course of years) it took me to overcome the chains Victor Wierwille planted in my brain in his PFLAP classes (read ONLY this and not that), Why? Could it have been because I had been indoctrinated ("trained") to be afraid of world wisdom?

Many people say... IMO, it's absurd to frame people coming to GSC and then no longer needing it in TWI terms.

No. I mean that unexplained, unexplainable phenomena that we considered miracles and thought was exclusive to twi (the "household") takes place whether the person is a believer or not. It's thought of and described in secular circles as synchronicity. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/503350.The_Tao_of_Psychology

My perspective is that words matter. Yet, sometimes I can be too picky. I'm thankful for the kind hearted way you took this one.

Constantly or repeatedly?

Not only so, but recognition thereof was an important development in my (still extremely limited) understanding of spirituality in general. IOW, recognizing experiences we, while in twi, exclusively labeled as miracles due to God honoring our faithfulness, were NOT in fact limited to a certain parochial group of fundamentalist Wierwillites was a BFD for me. God makes the rain to fall on the believers and unbelievers... or some such similar expression.

Emotional insecurity or immaturity perhaps.

Definitely.

I can't say I knew what motivated you to do so, but I respect the end result of your thought process in forming the reply to chockful. [Moderator's note: this post originally quoted another post that is being hidden for moderator's review. The hidden post violated no rules but responds to another hidden post that did. The remainder of THIS post is of independent value]. Also, I've read at least one book by author Sebastian Junger and respect his insight on life individually and with other humans. I watched this (non-comedic) interview this evening and thought it might appropriately fit in this thread.

Well, did you say it in words that you wrote? Sorry if you don't like the word "implicit."

Maybe implicit in your post is that it really wasn't God who decided the wage(s) of sin was/is death, but rather it was a whole bunch of societal elders instead. What would or does that possibility say about that bunch of elders if indeed it more fairly and correctly was the old (white?) guys who came up with it?

https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html Where does it come from? The Russian propaganda model of Firehose of Falsehoods.

Rest is a very good thing for a person and her (or his) mind to do. Best wishes.

My admonition: stay curious. I just ran across this reference to a new book dealing with an aspect of deconverting: (From the Amazon blurb) A gripping memoir about coming of age in the stay-at-home daughter movement and the quest to piece together a future on your own terms. Raised in the Christian patriarchy movement, Cait West was homeschooled and could only wear clothes her father deemed modest. She was five years old the first time she was told her swimsuit was too revealing, to go change. There would be no college in her future, no career. She was a stay-at-home daughter and would move out only when her father allowed her to become a wife. She was trained to serve men, and her life would never be her own. Until she escaped. In Rift, Cait West tells a harrowing story of chaos and control hidden beneath the facade of a happy family. Weaving together lyrical meditations on the geology of the places her family lived with her story of spiritual and emotional manipulation as a stay-at-home daughter, Cait creates a stirring portrait of one young woman’s growing awareness that she is experiencing abuse. With the ground shifting beneath her feet, Cait mustered the courage to break free from all she’d ever known and choose a future of her own making. Rift is a story of survival. It’s also a story about what happens after you survive. With compassion and clarity, Cait explores the complex legacy of patriarchal religious trauma in her life, including the ways she has also been complicit in systems of oppression. A remarkable literary debut, Rift offers an essential personal perspective on the fraught legacy of purity culture and recent reckonings with abuse in Christian communities.

Only tangentially related to this thread, We are Made of Stories by Leslie Umberger Recasting American art history to embrace artists who have been excluded for too long, We Are Made of Stories vividly captures the power of art to show us the world through the eyes of another.

The highlights (in bold) from your comment above seem to NOT be anything even closely resembling "I" statements. Btw, you seem to have declared (a reason why) you would not answer Charity's questions. Are you now demanding she answer yours?

I thought that was supposed to be Wierwille? His decisions were private interpretation. I'm reasonably convinced of that. He may have started out with good intentions. But the love of money IS the root of all evil, right?

How do we even know that's actually what God intended to "demand" or commend, or even expect? Hebrews 11:6 NIV 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. I don't see that demand in the verse above. James 1: 5-6 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. Okay, I see it in the James 1 reference. I wonder, however, about that. Wisdom well... I doubt that people become wise that way.

sometimes.

While I am all about curiosity and continuous learning, sometimes we have to accept uncertainty.

Now it's 667. Has to do with the number of posts/comments you make, I think.

Isn't sociological narrative both powerful and incredibly tricky? I again rejoice with you for the (mental and emotional) work you do to process what you've been learning. I suspect that processing has shown you that what we learned from Wierwille's "ministry/cult had obvious limitations. Your life experience, notably with your precious grandson showed you some of those limitations. My view is that God (or one's imagination of what God is or may be) are FAR bigger than what twi could imagine or bring into manifestation. I also rejoice in what you've shared about while researching compassion and fear. Though my challenges aren't the same as your challenges, I remain curious and each day wanting to learn and expand what I can know. I have an 11-year old grandson who recently shared with me that he attends school online. And that he doesn't miss in-person school. My heart goes out to him and to my daughter's family even though they are reluctant to share the details of my grandson's challenges. I have, over the course of the last decade, observed my grandson exhibiting intense curiosity about various aspects of life. I have no doubt that my grandson's curiosity is a great gift regardless of the social difficulties he endures. Anyway, I am so thankful for what you've shared with us on GSC, dear Charity.

That's the dilemma of the ages for humanity. IDK if. IDK how we could know with any degree of certainty (oops, "certainty" is all about belief or however, Nathan would spell it)