Hope R.

I entered the TWI-light zone in 1971. I agree with many comments made about the disillusionment of the Viet-Nam era youth and the general rebellion of our parents' religion guiding us out to "the farm". But on Lawnguylan, there was a multiplicity of religious and secular cults trying to lure our troubled souls into their folds. I remember that the Jesus People were witnessing on the boardwalk (the local teenage hangout) before TWI people ever showed up. Some guy carried a big cross on his back and his followers passed out tracts with bad cartoon strips that told us we would burn in eternal hellfire if we didn't believe. I passed that one up. There was also Guru Maharaji - the 14 year old kid from India who was supposed to be the reincarnation of Krishna. He founded the "Divine Light Mission" and formed ashrams all over the US. I had quite a few friends who got involved with them - but after telling me about their "third eye", I brushed that one off, too. Trancendental Meditation - with the Maharisha Mahesh Yogi, also made the rounds in our community. I found it interesting, but knew I couldn't sit still long enough to meditate and chant for hours and hours and hours. A bunch of kids in my high school would sit in the common area and chant during their lunch period. Nope- no thanks - no church with you. There were more whose names I can't remember. I do remember what impressed me about the people who witnessed to me from TWI.... THE WERE NORMAL! And.... the guys were REALLY cute, the music was great (Pressed Down, sounding like CSN), and the fellowships didn't last too long. Nothing was demanded of me.... yet. They weren't witnessing PFAL like they did a few years later - they were talking about the bible in plain (King James) English! I could go for that - I was still in high school. I had very few commitments and responsibilities to deal with, so it was easy to wrap myself in TWI's growing sub-culture. And no one demanded I go to fellowship on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, or drive up to Rye for the Sunday Night Teaching, or go to grad night on Thursday (once I took PFAL). I wanted to! It was something to do - it was fun - it was interesting - I wasn't bored like most 16 year olds with nothing to do! I had community - camaradie - likeminded-ness!!! Like laleo said - it didn't get centralized until 1972 (March, if my memory is correct), when the Heefners "went on sabbatical". That's when all the corruption manifested itself to those in the know. Fortunately (or unfortunately), I was not one of them and my first 8 years in TWI through the Way Corp were all pretty good (except my WOW year, which is another diatribe). I now know for a fact that much of that corruption existed - and spread like a cancer throughout the young, easily influenced and totally devoted Way Corps in those early years. Not to all - but enough to create monsters like LCM and others I won't mention. Just fill in the blank. Good to see you Skyrider.....

I love Bill Mahar

Bramble - your post is almost a carbon copy of where I'm at as well- including the splinter group and church experiences (though we only tried one). I have also experienced this - but have found that there are some very nice bible-believing people who keep their preaching to themselves - which, IMO, is a very loving thing to do! I never want anyone to tell me what I should believe in ever again. Themex -- as far as the topic goes-- I haven't read all the posts but I need to clarify your question -- Are you asking about former TWI leaders who currently have their own offshoots? Or is the question "How many TWI leaders FOLLOWED the sex doctrine of VPW" when they were in leadership positions in TWI? As I wrote on another thread about splinter groups: Anyway - I hope my opinion is on topic

Pretty pretty! Don't check in much anymore - thanks for remembering me! Looks cool.... xoxoxox Hope

After I saw Green Day and My Chemical Romance back in April, I noticed my ears were ringing much longer than they used to after a rock concert ---- hours and hours. I thought I was just getting old - but now think perhaps that all the accumulated concerts and years of listening to loud music are finally catching up with me. I still love it loud, though. My youngest is playing drums now, and I've been told by friends she should wear ear plugs when she practices or it could hurt her hearing. I don't remember any drummer I knew wearing ear plugs, and don't want to seem like a worry-wart ... any advice?

Anyone hear from Evan? Bro.... are you okay? Our thoughts are with you - we're praying. If anyone needs refuge - you're welcome to come here.

Didn't read all the posts after the first page, but here's my 2¢... No matter what organization you're in, whether it's a school, or your workplace, or a church, or Rotary Club - there will always be good people and there will always be at least one a$$h*le - usually more. Add to that the fact that some people may be really nice to you and treat me like $h!t for no apparent reason. People are people. I'll even throw in a bible quote: there's nothing new under the sun. TWI hasn't cornered the market on this subject. To say that the Way Corps, or the entire TWI organization are unique in this way gives them more credit than they are due. There are @ssholes everywhere.... and the glass is half empty... and it's cracked... and I just cut my lip.... (just kidding)...

I remember when that announcement was made, all I could think was "HUH????" I don't know ANYONE who thought it made sense, yet most people were too intimidated to question LCM's "revelation". IMO, one of the reasons he did it was to get rid of the "Word over the world" way-speak that was programmed into TWI's language. If the word was over the world, why have WOW ambassadors? Why call the auditorium the WOW auditorium? LCM needed to make his own mark, wanted his own cult! So out with the old and in with the new. New revelation, new present truth, all that cr@pola LCM used to set himself up as the new MOG. I remember the rationale for VP's WOUSA claim was that at the time a fellowship available in every state in the US, therefore everyone had an opportunity to hear the it. I thought that was BS as well. But it still made more sense than LCM's WOW declaration! Oy.

My 2¢ on the Moneyhands: I heard he couldn't stand Rosalie before she became prez. Sure, he could have changed his mind, but for some reason, I just don't think so. So... go as far away from her as possible while still being involved in TWI and close enough to fly home and see the kids/grandkids. I wonder if they've gone "emeritus"? Or sorta want to be like Gail and Frances W. - only in Europe. I don't think that WayPay will support them in the UK - the exchange rate is about $1.80 for £1. IMO, they may be subsidizing their own assignment. I don't think there are too many faithful wayfers in the UK and therefore not enough ABS to support them. Belle - I'm surprised our former BC's didn't get the Region/Limb job. They've been around for 30 years by now, and he's been as faithful as Lassie to TWI. Any news about them? Thom Loy - John B. could barely make it running a fellowship here in Florida. Heck, I think they'd make ME a Limb leader before they would put him in that position. He and his wife are lovely folks, but not what TWI would look for in a Region/Limb coor. xoxoxo

And your ABS is also paying for past abuses. The previous 2 law suits dealt with LCM's abuse of women. The people currently in litigation with TWI feel that their ABS was used wrongly for many years (among other things) and want their money back. They're running out of people to abuse...

Back to what I was told by a former Trunk Leader and 1st Corps guy... He couldn't recall if it was the ROA 1983 or 1984 - but the number he gave me was between 22 and 24 thousand at the ROA. More people came in on the weekend and some left after a few days, so they could never get a totally accurate count of who was actually "on grounds". I was at both of them, but if I had to wager, I'd bet it was 1984. WOW numbers were huge - remember 4000 for the 40th? What a push that was. I recall that lots of Corps got WOW as their assignment that year to reach the goal. Corps numbers were also way up there. Was anyone in the 13th or 15th?? I heard that it was so overcroweded that there were married couples sharing rooms in some of the dorms! Never knew whether or not that was true. Double bunk beds... sex schedules... eek! But think about it. Even if there were as many as 50,000 active abs-ing participants, it's only enough to fill an average baseball stadium. Not that many people. And those 50,000 were never in the same place at the same time. If it were the ROA, the baseball stadium would have only been half full (or half empty depending on your point of view!). More folks than that show up for a Devil Rays game here in Tampa - and they stink!

I can confirm what Belle said... with a few additions. If you had any debt, you could not attend the A/C special. I think that in the past few years, a few more people may have stayed home because they bought a house and had a mortgage "debt". Seems more people were willing to break that part of the "debt rule" and give up some of their TWI privileges to own their own home. Regarding WayPay - after LCM realized he was bankrupting TWI by having so many full time employees who weren't earning their keep - a Corps flunkie had to have at least 100 active participants in their area to retain their full time status. Regarding full timers - the BC here got lucky for a while. Tampa Bay had been split into two branches - the Tampa Branch and the "Soncoast" branch (Pinellas county - that includes St. Pete, Clearwater and other W. coast cities). The Corps couple who ran the Pinellas branch were transferred to the East Coast of Florida to run a branch over there. The branches were combined into one Tampa Bay Area branch and therefore became much larger - about 120 to 130 people. So when the full time status was pulled from everyone else, the BC here was one of the only Corps who remained on WayPay in Florida. Actually, I think it was only him and Rev. Moneyhands who were full-timers. Many of us bailed out during the first law-suit. Some never announced their departure, the simply stopped coming. I heard from an innie that the monthly branch meetings dwindled down to 60 or 70 attendees - including kids. This went on for months, perhaps even a year, before the BC here was finally told to go get a real job. I don't know how big the branch is now. I'd bet it's no bigger than it was 4 years ago, probably smaller - unless people have moved here from other areas.

I asked a First Corps guy who was on staff for many years about TWI's numbers. Like how many people were really involved at the peak of TWI's growth. He said to take the largest attendance at the ROA and double it - figuring that about half the people on the field got there. I believe he said the largest ROA was either in '83 or '84 (I don't remember which one he said), and that there were about 22k during the week, and 24k who came for the weekend. Double it and we have between 44 and 48 thousand active participants - which he defined as those who took more than just PFAL and ABS'd regularly. The 100,000 figure comes from a statement that VPW made when he said "there are more than 100,000 people in the 'Book of Life'." That was big list of everyone who ever took PFAL. I know we had plenty of folks in this area who took the class and never did anything with TWI again. The other statistic I remember hearing is something like "only 25% of people who take PFAL go on to take the Intermediate class." And that the believer's job was to undershepard people through the Advanced Class to make sure they stood with TWI. At my first ROA in '72 there were about 2500 people in attendance. In '73 there were about 5000. TWI was growing exponentially for a few years - until it crashed and burned starting in 1986. They now have about the same amount of devotees that they had 33 years ago. It amazes me how they can survive - and pitiful if you think about it.

I joined the AARP crowd last week. Funny, turning 40 was traumatic - but 50 was a blast! I also feel like I'm still in my 30's - my late 30's! My kids are fairly young for someone my age - and they probably keep me feeling young. I'm goint backwards from now on, though - next year I'll be 49!

I was told by my former BC that she was a "prophetess" -- according to her ordination word of prophesy. I almost gagged.

I also think that many of us have replaced our anger or bitterness about our TWI years with other activities - and we don't come around because we're busy with other things. That's my case, anyway. I've been out for almost 5 years and the first 3 I was on here every day - posting, responding, starting new threads, etc. Then for a year I checked the threads every day but didn't necessarily have anything to add to the discussion. This past year, I can go days without reading the forums. Not because I think they're boring, or repetitive - it's because I don't have time! And we all know there's repetition - as there should be! Threads travel from page one to page 50 in a short time - and some of the things that were discussed a year ago haven't been seen by those new lurkers or innies who need to read those threads. There's also the main GS site - with all the articles that are very valuable to those who don't want to participate in the forums. Someone recently said to me that there hasn't been anything new on there for a very long time. But what is there is pretty much timeless information with no expriation date! Sure - I'd love to see fresh new articles and never-discussed topics in both areas of GS - but it's been around long enough that there really is no new thing under the sun....

I had a sneaking suspicion that you were going to show up! Actually, I was expecting you and NOT expecting Radar at all - you made too many comments about not being able to get here... sorta had me thinking I'd see you anyway! I wish you had made it here, though - it would have made my b-day complete (not that it wasn't wonderful - it realllly was!). Like Radar said - lots of NBW people - lots of neighbors, PTA and school friends, and old friends. I was worried that Radar wouldn't have too many ex-ways to talk to - but hubby surprised me with Belle and the Royal Gorge's - neither of which I expected! Oh - Belle - your brown shirt is here! We'll have to get together again so I can return it! Thanks again to everyone - I couldn't have had a better birthday! xoxoxo

Thanks to everyone. Yeah, I'm fifty and nifty!!! Never thought I'd make it this long.... Radar surprised the **** out of me! Now, remember, we've known each other since Waydale - 6 1/2 years - but we'd NEVER MET! I could have bumped into her on the street and not known it was her! So here this stranger is walking into my bedroom! I was a bit confused for a minute til I saw the phone in her hand and she said "I'm Radar"! You can't even imagine how thrilled I was (after the shock wore off!). My hubby is amazing! We were talking about GSer's we'd met, and he if there were any GSer's I'd want to meet someday (in the context of the Chicago party). I gave him some names and he gave me a wonderful surprise! Now I'm wondering who else is going to show up tomorrow night! Anyway - I'm going to party like a 15 year old instead of a 50 year old... hopefully I'll survive! xoxoxox - Hope P.S. My other present was getting to see GREEN DAY this past Monday night... they were fabulous! Deafeningly loud - but fabulous!

I have a Way East T-Shirt somewhere around here... Nice to see you Jim. Perhaps you can get a hold of Heefner and get the East Coast perspective. I got into TWI in 1971 - about 8 or 9 months before the time Steve and Sandi left Rye. I was on Lawnguylan - so wasn't as close to the source as 3Cents - but remember being told that the Heefners were taking a "sabbatical" in order to spend more time with their family. I thought that was nice - little did I know what was really going on. Hell - I was 16 and loved Jesus - my glasses were very rose-colored back then, I see much clearer now. Welcome to the Cafe, Jim. Glad you're here. I'd also like a copy of your book.

If TWI just had to butt in to personal finances - they should have taught people who were in heavy debt to live within their means! It could still be the easiest way out from under their "all debt is bad" policy. Just teach that debt is bad if you can't manage it (as Belle's dad so wisely said). That debt that can be managed, and managed well, can be a profitable thing. We'd never be able to rent our home for the mortgage payment we now have. The bible says that we're to be good stewards of what we have. For us, that means a mortgage in an appreciating asset - our own home. So... if having debt is the best way to steward our money - how can it be wrong? If the stewardship thing is in the bible, and the no debt thing is in the bible - which one should we follow? I'll admit I was being a bit facetious - I didn't think he'd answer me because biblically there really is no right answer. He said something like, "Reverand Martindale's teaching to owe no man ANYTHING is the 'present truth' - therefore all debt is wrong." Needless to say I wanted to SCREAM! Instead of thinking about it - going to the bible to see that "owe no man anything" has little to do with MONEY or DEBT - he gave me a pat answer. I shouldn't have expected anything else.

Lianne - check your PT's...

Oh - I also heard the place was a b!tch to maintain - even when TWI was rolling in $$$. I've also been told it's gotten pretty seedy in the past 5 or 6 years. Wouldn't surprise me.

Never cared for the place. IMO, it was really dark in there. I think one of the many things that ticked me off about LCM's reign was the name-change of the building from the VPW "Word over the World Auditorium" to the "Prevailing Word Auditorium" - or something like that. I think that he took VP's name off the building name as well. Look, the Empire State Building will ALWAYS be the Empire State Building. Chrysler Building, Sears Tower, Yankee Stadium... they get their names and it stays that way. I know that some stadiums (stadia?) change their names from time to time because of advertising (i.e., the old Tampa Stadium became Houlihan's Stadium when the Glasier's bought the team - then it got torn down and the new stadium is now called Raymond James Stadium - affectionatly known as "RayJay"). But for the most part, buildings - especially ones that are dedicated or named for a specific person, usually don't change names. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. I suppose Trump Tower will always be Trump Tower, too... Anyway - it ticked me off that LCM was so anal about changing WOW and VPW stuff that he spent my ABS to change the name on the overhang and everywhere else on that thing.

Hey - just saw this thread and browsed through it. Yeah - I waited 5 years for John to decide it was time to get out but we had (and still have) a relationship that was built on other things besides TWI. I was willing to wait because John was willing to listen to me b!tch about it. He was not totally enamored of LCM or the WAP class or the way things were running at HQ's. We never ditched our friends who left or M&A'd anyone. I guess you could compare it to sky-diving... you're in the plane, you have the chute on, you know what will happen, you've decided you want to do it, and all you have to do is jump. But you get scared and you stare out at the open sky wondering what it would be like to actually jump - you can almost taste it, but you're too afraid to act. Afraid of the unknown and quite comfortable in the plane. Other times, people jump and forget to pull the rip-cord and end up getting hurt (well, worse than hurt). You've got to know when it's the right time, and prepare yourself as much as possible. I had lots of friends outside of TWI - more than who were IN TWI. Most of our close TWI friends got out a long time ago. We'd been in our area for 20 years - hadn't moved around. We had an established business, a home and great neighbors. We hadn't been social with Wayfers in a long time - except the ones who we knew we could commiserate with about the problems in TWI. We also didn't tell the Poobahs in our area our business. We mastered the art of vague answers! Oh - and just for the record - we didn't leave, we got kicked out. We were ready to jump and well prepared - but got pushed out before we could jump - which was fine with me. Either way we landed on our feet.

Oh - I LOVE MONTY PYTHON! Monty Python & the Holy Grail Did you know that there's a new Broadway show called "Spammed" based on that movie? I heard it's sold out for 2 years. Okay - here goes... "Turned left at Greenland"