Hope R.

Def - yeah - that sorta took me by surprise, too. But ya know - they always have a surprise ending on "Law & Order". I never heard anything about her character being a lesbian either. Frankly, I don't think that comment was necessary. Jumped the Shark? That happened when Lenny Briscoe left and Jerry Orbach died.

I think Florida may have a few more than 150 left. Four years ago, before we left in 2000, there was a statewide "Defeating the Adversary" class on Memorial Day weekend.. There were about 350 active A/C grads there. That was less than 2 months after the first law suit was brought to light in the TWI fellowships. I recall being very careful of who we talked to about the stuff we knew at the time (thanks to Waydale). I know that when we left in July, several people had already bailed out. There were also many more who did the same in the following months. If there were 350 A/C grads - there were probably about 500 total followers in the state. I'm assuming that in the last 4 years, at least half of them left. I know the Tampa Bay Area went from having well over 100 participants to about 50 to 60 shortly after we got booted. If that followed suit, then there are probably about 250 left in the entire state. I'm sure that the folks who got out after we did would be able to make a more accurate guess.

I tend to agree with Geek about LCM not being able to start his own thing because of the internet. I think the internet has prevented many people from joining up with TWI and probably some of the other splinter groups as well. Go ahead and google LCM's name - or TWI - or JAL. Sure you'll find their own web sites and perhaps one or two more postive sites about them. But when you scroll down you'll also find 100 more web sites warning you off. And not all of them are done by ex-Wayfers either. A person with half a brain wouldn't bother going any further. If LCM has indeed "come to himself", maybe he realizes he's not the man he knew himself to be.

I don't like Jim Carrey either - but Satori is correct - this movie isn't his usual mugging at the camera and strutting around the movie set. It's different, for sure - but I liked it. I recommend that you hunker down and watch it all the way through - get your beer and popcorn and go pee before you hit the play button. It's worth watching.

Radar... are you sure the gross to net change was the late 80's? I seem to recall it happening in the 90's. As far as what we gave - we believed what the bible says about "every man as he purposes in his heart - so let him give". We gave whatever amount we felt was appropriate at the time. Sometimes it was more, sometimes less. After the first law suit - we stopped abundantly sharing all together. Many others did the same. Funny, there wasn't too much of a fuss about it either - I guess the higher-ups knew that people were ....ed-off when they found out that their hard-earned money was used to support a sexual miscreant.

Vision and Direction: A work manual for the full time Way Corps Emergency Cutbacks: 1998 (PDF file) No Gift Policy There are a lot of other Documents in the Waydale Documents section on the main GS Cafe site. The no gift policy was totally insane. First - put your full time Corps on the most meager exsistance possible - then don't allow anyone to give them ANYTHING to help them out! We have a lemon tree in our backyard. The thing is remarkably fertile for such a small tree. One year, it produced over 200 lemons. I was giving bags of them away! One Sunday - I bagged up bunches of them for the folks in our fellowship. Our BC (who was our HFC) could not take them - they were a GIFT - a BRIBE. I WAS GIVING THEM TO EVERYONE - NOT JUST HIM! But... I was allowed to give them to his KIDS so they could make lemonade if they wanted to. Then, it was our BC's 20th Anniversary - a bunch of us got together and made a card. We also bought some inexpensive flowers to give them with the card. They had to CALL THE LC to see if they could accept the flowers! OMG! At Christmas, I could get gifts for the kids - but it was suggested that I get them practical things, like pajamas or slippers - that's what they needed - no fun stuff. There's more - but it's all so insane it's hard to believe it really happened sometimes. Tommy Strangelove - there are some wonderful people who went full time. It blew my mind that they did. Some of them had good jobs and nice homes and had been in their areas for years - and they gave it all up for Waypay. It amazes me that some of them are still sticking with it. I will continue to keep these folks in my thoughts - and hope someday they will get out for good. Sky - I have heard that many people who went full time were living in sub-standard housing, that they didn't have enough to give their kids the basics and ate a lot of macaroni and cheese... and that the "abundant life" didn't apply to them. Did you observe this as well?

I have to admit that I wrote a letter to LCM before the "Corps Alumni" status existed saying that I was unhappy about being grouped together with the "dropped" corps who had left TWI. After all, I was still standing, dontcha know!?! Why, how dare you put me in the same category with those cop-outs!! Oy... So the powers-that-were conjured up the Corps Alumni status. I didn't think for a minute that my letter had much to do with it - but I thought that was pretty considerate of them to respond that way! (LOL). Now, as we all know, everything in TWI was conditional- there was always a catch. In order to qualify as Corps Alumni - you had to be (according to Paul G., our former BC), "the best example of an Advanced Class Grad in your area". Once you blew it a few times - missed a meeting, didn't go witnessing, fell asleep during a dial-up Sunday Teaching Service, you would very quickly lose your status! Just another carrot on a stick, really. For me, it's just another "if I knew then what I know now" - I'd tell them to take their Corps Alumni status and shove it up LCM's, ahem, ... dancing tights. As John said, we lost our Corps Alumni status only a few months after getting it! The Way giveth, the Way taketh away. Dammit... I didn't even keep the status long enough to get a name tag to add to my collection!

"If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me." - Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)

I think if it had been anyone but Geer presenting PoP, I might have listened. IMO, I thought he was a nut-job, still do. So I couldn't take anything he had written too seriously - and besides - it really didn't say much of anything, did it? The first few years after PoP - Igotout and I looked into some of the "start-up" groups that were splitting off from TWI. We got tapes from Steve S*** in California; newsletters from JAL and others. All of them were trying to win us over to "their" side. We were still running a twig - and we'd put all the info we'd gotten from the spin-offs right on the table next to the Way Rag and Grapevines from TWI. We didn't really know what to do. All our friends were bailing - but we weren't ready to make that decision. Besides, where would we go to hear "the word"? (ugh). At the time, TWI was still the largest and most organized group with the most material to offer, as well as events like Word in Business and the ROA. We decided to stick with TWI for those reasons, as well as a mis-guided sense of loyalty and all that Corps-Corps-Corps indoctrination. After LCM came out of his "fog" and started going ape-sheet - we figured we'd just wait and see - thinking that it had to get better! I mentally gave it a year. Then LCM released the Galatians tapes and I thought things were headed back in the right direction. Well, you know the rest. In 1995, I had to go take the newest version of the Advanced Class in Rome City. I think it was probably the worst 10 days I'd had in TWI. Bunch of mindless twits cheering for a man screaming his head off on a video - others praising him - saying that they were proud that TWI "was no longer an open-door ministry". That did it - I got home - told hubby that when he was ready to leave - I'd be right behind him. It took 5 more years and Waydale to do it. The past 4 1/2 years have been amazing. I'm at the point now where I feel like TWI was the distant past instead of the recent past for me.

The last one we went to was in Dallas - but it wasn't over Thanksgiving - I think it was Easter weekend. I never could go on Thanksgiving because it's my mom's favorite holiday - and I wouldn't want to miss having it with her. Anyway - John and I cut out and went to the Sixth Floor Museum. It was way more memorable than the WIB conference - as well as more interesting and thought-provoking. To any of you innies who might be going, get a cab and go check it out. I've fogotten the teachings - but remember the museum.

TED - You pretty much already know what they are. I'll email the list to you when I have a moment to breathe! xoxoxo Hope

Did anyone say eBay? Not just for purchases - but to SELL your stuff! It's amazing what some people will purchase. One man's trash... I was looking for some knee socks for my daughter and came across a USED pair of gym socks with a hole in them. Someone was selling them for $4 PLUS shipping! Eek! (for real! check it out!) Clean out your closets - and sell the stuff you don't want or need anymore. The buyer pays the shipping. All you have to spend is time.

There are always coupons on line for many major stores. If you register with the places your frequent - they'll send you an email with their special offers. Target, Borders, Bath & Body Works have discounts and coupons almost all the time. Know when they have their annual or semi-annual sales. too. Melitta has their HQ's in Clearwater and opens their warehouse up to the public the first weekend in November - every year. I only found out about it a couple of years ago - but I buy a years supply of coffee and filters when they have the sale. I found out that there are many companies that open their warehouses up once or twice a year. A lot of times, you can find out through your kids' school. We have a fundraising company here in Tampa that does a warehouse sale the first week in December - they advertise it through the schools who have used them for their fundraisers - usually the faculty gets the info. All the wrapping paper, candy, stocking-stuffers, etc. are about 1/4 to 1/3 of the price the catalog lists them for. If you use make-up from a department store counter - only buy it when they have their bonuses - usually 3 or 4 times a year. But - don't deny yourself the things you really want that you can afford. Every now and then, go to the Godiva store and spend $3.50 on a chocolate covered strawberry! Heck, I know I've clipped enough coupons to make up for it!

Since the "great divide", most of the early Way Prod songs and tapes have been shelved by TWI. All those durn "cop-outs" wrote them, dontcha know! The few songs I wrote that are copyrighted were for TWI as well. "I Love the Lord" is still in the #@)% song book. They can have it! My feeling is that if they still had some of the better music around, people would wonder who the performers were, and where they were as well. Reminds me of "The Ten Commandments" when Yul Brynner orders Moses' name to be taken off all the statues and buildings of Egypt - erasing him from memory. All that drama...

3Cents - Crohn's is a rough thing for a teenager. I have a similar condition that has subsided over the years. Drop me an email...

Being late, or really, the fear of being late makes me crazy. I say the it's the fear of being late because I never am. I've told my friends and family that if you've waited more than 10 minutes for me, and I haven't called you to tell you I'm running late, then something must have happened! I don't know if that's a TWI thing. I remember being told that when you're late it means you don't give a crap about the people waiting for you -- it's rude. I have a NBW friend who is perpetually late. It's become a joke with a bunch of my girlfriends. Now my late (not dead!) friend even jokes about it! We have waited to order lunch for 1/2 hour or more because she wasn't there. Meetings have started late because she was late as well. I have to admit, I get annoyed because it's just a bad habit of hers that would probably be easy to change. Yeah - we've told her to be somewhere 1/2 hour before the actual time. She figured it out after she got there and none of our group was there yet! But in a way, it is kinda rude when 5 hungry women are waiting for lunch. We just make up for it by drinking an extra pitcher of San Gria before she arrives. That way, we're too happy to be angry at her! But that's still the one TWI habit I still have, and maybe it's because I really don't want to break it. The neat thing - naw. But it drives hubby nuts. Oh - and the context of "let all things be done decently and in order..." has nothing to do with the top of your refrigerator.

Don't want to butt into this because I haven't read everything - but isn't "The Way International" different than just plain "The Way"? I can see where "The Way International" would not be generic, but just plain "The Way" would be. And the other organization called itself "The Way International Ministries". Wasn't that what riled them up against that group in the first place?

"Truth needs no defense" - meaning if you're in TWI, you don't have to explain anything you believe to anyone - just get them in the class. "Sincerety is no guarantee for truth" - meaning that a good, sincere person is probaby a liar, especially if they're trying to teach the bible outside of the TWI "household".

I think that VP would have been very amenable to having ex-followers come to the woods to visit their loved ones. Perhaps he thought he would be able to get them back into the TWI fold if they were welcomed. You catch a lot more flies with honey....

Hmmm - it does look like there's some kind of subliminal message in that waterfall. It probably says "drink the Kool-Aid".

Think about it... if they had just let Doug go pay his respects quietly and prayerfully - this never would have happened. That's all he wanted to do. Agree with him or not, he really wasn't trying to start up a big brou-ha-ha, he just wanted to go do what many other people do when someone they loved and cared about passes away. Personally, visiting a grave-site isn't my "thing". I'd rather remember the person's life and accomplishments than hang around the hole in the ground they're buried in. But that's me - not Doug. This feud may have been initiated by Doug McM's visits - but it was escalated by TWI. They should have left well enough alone. We wouldn't have even heard about it then.

At first - Advanced Class grads of the PFAL A/C who wanted to take the WAP Advanced Class were allowed to have certain kinds of debt and still attend. They were - Mortgage Child Support (yes - it was considered a debt!) Hospital Bills Student Loans IRS debt Later, when all the grad-only classes were over, you had to have NO debt whatsoever in order to qualify, whether you were an old PFAL A/C grad or not. Poor me, I couldn't take it when it was a grad-only class... so I had to wait for the "new student" classes and ... oops! I couldn't take it because we have a mortgage. Too bad, what a shame, I'm so sad :D--> :P--> ;)-->

Another point is that many, many churches have been able to meet the spiritual needs of people much more than TWI ever dreamed of. Not just the spiritual needs, but the social needs as well. When I got involved in TWI the churches weren't "doing their jobs". I remember hearing (according to VP) that the church buildings were empty 6 days a week - only used for Sunday services. That is not true of today's churches - at least around here. The church we sometimes go to has a youth group, a mens bible study, a womens bible study, singles meetings, classes on basic Christianity, marriage, family, commitment, and much more. There's always something going on there - the parking lot always seems to be at least half full. And as far as "outreach" goes: they build "Habitat for Humanity" houses and go to homeless shelters to feed the needy. They donate their time and efforts to several missions. They don't HAVE to witness to get people to attend - it's just a natural extention of their good works and charity. Spiritually, the sermons are timely, thought-provoking and well done. Sure, there are doctrinal differences from what we were taught in TWI - but it's going to be that way with any other church or religious organization. TWI's doctrines were and are unique to them - and as far as I'm concerned - they can keep it all to themselves. Oh - and another thing that changed in the past decade or so is that we were instructed to not witness to anyone unless they had their physical stuff together - no losers in TWI anymore - no weaknesses! See, they were trying to "weed out" the weakness in those who were already involved - so of course, no one who was weak to begin with was really welcome. Most "non-loser" types who are well into their 40's have already become a part of a church or synagogue. They've raised their kids in them and contributed a lot of time and money to the denomination. Most are happy with their religious affiliations and aren't going to change for something that will offer them less than what they've already experienced. So - when the equation is: good churches + good works + good pastors, people & programs - charity + no weakness allowed = no new people in TWI! I know what my answer would be... "No thanks, no church with you..."

What's really amazing in hindsight is all the mental illness that TWI wrote off as "possession" because they lacked the ability or willingness to help someone in need. Is your kid too hyper? Then they must be possessed? Are you feeling really down, so bad that it hurts? Well, it's a devil spirit - dontcha know! Anything that caused a problem was taken care of by spirit possession or (in later years), spirit influence. Don't want to obey the MOG and pay your house off? You're being influenced by the debbil! Don't want to mark and avoid your brother, sister, mother, father who "walked away" from the household? Then you're allowing their devil spirits to have entrance into your life. And on and on it goes. Reminds me of Flip Wilson (as Geraldine)... remember?... "The Devil made me do it!"

Ahhh Sushi - guess you're one of those "sensitive new age guys"...