Nathan_Jr

That was fun. I am reminded of the word STUDY.

*exasperated sigh* "Used before" is an exegetical fallacy I would expect anyone with a Masters in Theology from Princeton Seminary to avoid. One word can have multiple meanings. How it is used in one context cannot determine how it is used in another context. And language changes over time. All languages. Depending on how you date the LXX and the Pastorals, there could be a 300-500 year difference. Meanings of words change over time. In one of the inexhaustible sessions of CFS, victor says the trees in Genesis represent people because Paul used an olive tree and its grafted branches as a metaphor for groups of people. He says he can't prove it, but something something you've just got to believe it to fit... In this instance, he contradicts his own fallacious methodology, making it even more nonsensical - how it's used LATER will determine how it was used before! Hey! I didn't make this stuff up. Victor did.

Well, I’m convinced. In light of an accurate treatment of the Greek and within the immediate context of verse 21, Vic got it wrong. His error is significant because he ignores his own self-interpreting hermeneutic - CONTEXT. Verse 21 establishes it. While looking into this, I came across Lamsa’s eccentric version of 2Peter 1:20: 20Knowing this first, that not every prophetic writing is made clear in its own book.

The one claiming spiritual authority is the one who does not have it.

No text ever interpreted itself, as no text ever wrote itself. Ever. Even legal texts, in spite of their painstakingly precise composition, require interpretation by the courts. And ancient texts, especially! Ancient religious literature and scripture will be interpreted by the reader, the translator, the theologian, the historian, the profiteer… but never by the texts themselves. Texts have writers and audiences (and editors). To explain a text with this understanding, and in light of its literary and historical context, in light of presuppositions, is exactly… the act of interpretation! A text itself can’t do this for itself by itself. Now, one may assert the CLAIM that a text interprets itself. One may also claim to jump over barns.

It doesn’t bother me if you stay. This forum is open to anyone, but some have an easier time than others. It’s rare to see someone refer to victor as “Dr.” I must admit, the dishonesty is refreshing.

Have you seen the excellent documentary Muscle Shoals (2013)?

Four crucified is emblematic of man’s gullibility, stupidity and dishonesty. As long as it is “taught,” as long as it is regurgitated, I will stand against it. As long as charlatans like Victor Wierwille (not a real doctor), Loy Martindale, Chris Reed and Kat Kerr are defecating into the mouth of God, I will stand against them.

"Whipping Post" Allman Brothers Band Not really playing, so I'll make it super easy, a virtually free post. Duane Allman played on a certain cover of this song. Bonus points for naming the cover artist with whom Duane played. "...don't make it bad Take a sad song and make it better Remember to let her into your heart Then you can start to make it better"

He's Rick James, Bitch!

1 - 4 are non answers, but we agree on #5. Not sure why you are confused.

Maybe. On which of these do we agree? TWI believes four crucified. People no longer involved with TWI still believe four crucified. Four crucified is stupid and refutable. Wierwille was a charlatan fraud. Music is more fun than all the above.

People believe four crucified and flat earth. TWI still teaches four crucified. People who reject TWI still believe four crucified. It's a stupid and easily refuted belief. Wierwille was a charlatan fraud. That's an observation, not hate. Music is more fun for sure. Carry on.

Conspiracy theories came up earlier. That reminded me of flat earth, which reminded me of Bullinger, which reminded me of four crucified. An ironic digression to redirect the discussion away from conspiracy theories and politics and back to the stupidity of wierwille.

Flat earth and four crucified and intellectually dishonest and stupid claims. They require lies to overcome the evidence against them. Ultimately, to argue for either will require conspiracy as a premise.

Four crucified and flat earth are the stupid pieces of bread holding together the bullsh¡t sandwich.

I didn't say anything about a Bilderberg Group. Another red herring.

I should have been mathematically exact and scientifically precise. STUPIDITIES and LIES should be disputed and refuted whenever they arise.

Right. Conspiracy theories are not good. The stupidity of conspiracy theories like four crucified and flat earth should be disputed and refuted whenever they arise.

Waysider is right. Bullinger was wrong. Both of those statements are true and easily proven.

It's not bait. Flat Earth is a conspiracy theory. Seems on topic.

I am reminded of The Universal Zetetic Society of which E.W. Bullinger was a member. Bullinger was a flat-earther. (Knowing this can aid in understanding why and how an otherwise intelligent, educated man could be so stupid as to assert the easily refuted claim of four crucified.) Flat-earthers are a zealous bunch.

Such a sophomore.

"Working this topic...working the word...work the word..." -- VPW/TWI "If it doesn't fit, ya gotta MAKE it fit." -- VPW

"Since the 1970s, The Way International has been engaged in a Biblical study of the Greek word pistis...Many on the ministry research team continued working this topic..." *exasperated sigh* More Information Part I-OVERVIEW The Green Noun pistis Believing (pistis)-Positive or Negative Believing Renewed-Mind Believing, the Manifestation of Believing, and Fruit-of-the-Spirit Believing. Faith (pistis)-The Faith of Jesus Christ and the Family Faith Faithfulness (pistis) Keys to Rightly Dividing the Word pistis The Verb-pisteuo The Adjective-pistos Part II-BELIEVING AND FAITH Summary of Occurrences Faith, Believing, or Faithfulness-pistis Believe, to be Entrusted with, or to Entrust-pisteuo Faithful, Trusting-pistos Summary of Usages Table of Usages 1-8 Part III-UNBELIEF/UNBELIEVING Little Faith (Believing)-oligopistos Unbelief-apistea Believe not-apisteo Unbelieving, Faithless, Infidel-apistos Unbelief, Disobedience-apeithea Unbelieving, Believe Not-apeitheo Disobedient-apeithes Table of Usages 9-15 Occurrences and Usages of oligopistos, apistia, apisteo, apistos, apeitheia, apeitheo, apeithes APPENDIX Number of Occurrences in the King James Version https://store.theway.org/store/bible-kinds-of-faith/