Mark Sanguinetti

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Alexander_Dowie After reading the above link it looks like John Alexander Dowie was nothing special for miracles or serving God or his son Jesus Christ. As an example, he was promoted or promoted himself for doing healings, yet he died at the age of 59, which is below average. You would think that if he would believe for other people's healings that he would be able to believe for his own healing. Also it looks like Dowie promoted himself more than he promoted Jesus Christ. As an example, there is no usage of the word Jesus or the word Christ in this article. And it has a graphic image of him in a costume as part of this article. Perhaps he wanted people to worship himself. And the only two usages of the word "God" is part of the phrase "God's Messenger" and the other usage is the following, He emphasized faith in God, "entire consecration", and holiness. "The word consecration means the action of making or declaring something, typically a church, sacred." From this it looks like instead of promoting Jesus Christ, he promoted a church or churches that he started. After reading the above link it looks like jim jack is more of a follower of Jesus Christ than John Alexander Dowie was.

As jim jack has stated. And this was and is the primary emphasis as stated by Jesus Christ. In further developing our godly fruit what did Jesus say about the greatest law or commandment? Matt 22:36-40 36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" 37 Jesus said to him, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." NKJV And just who is our neighbor according to Jesus Christ? Is our neighbor only our fellow country men? Or is he or she only of the same race or religion that we are? Is our neighbor only some one that we go to church or school with? Jesus answers this question clearly in his parable written in Luke 10:25-37. When a person knowledgeable of the law asked Jesus, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus answered him with a question relating to the man's own understanding, "What is written in the law?" In verse 27, he answered: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"28 "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live." But the man had another question, and asked in verse 29, "And who is my neighbor?" In replying, Jesus gave his explanation using a parable (figurative story), beginning in verse 30, Luke 10:30-36 30 In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.' 36 "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?" NIV So using today's language and scenario we have a lawyer asking Jesus Christ, "who is the neighbor that I should see as an example of godly love?" And Jesus tells him about a man that recently got beaten senseless with all his money stolen and then tossed on a curb inside a city near a church. Then the local church leaders and those with the lofty title reverend all pass him by and don't help him even though they see his condition and that he is literally dying. But then a common person from a neighboring city traveling through, who just happens to be from a family with a mixture of Jewish and Moslem family members as soon as he sees the man and his condition takes pity on him and does everything he can to help him. (If you know biblical history you know that the Samaritans of Jesus' day were a mixture of Assyrian and Jewish descendents.) The traveler immediately runs to the local drug store and buys bandages and cleaning and sterilization ointment. Then runs back to where the man is lying, thoroughly cleans all his wounds and wraps bandages with first aid antibiotic cream around them. Then lifts him into his car and drives him to the nearest hospital. Then stays with him until he gets medical help. Then tells the doctors and staff to do what ever it takes for this man to recover fully and that he will pay all the hospital and doctor bills. Then Jesus asks the lawyer, "which of the people that I have just described was a good neighbor to the man who got robbed and beaten?" The legally knowledgeable lawyer then answered, "the traveler from out of town who had mercy on him." Then Jesus told the inquisitive lawyer, "that is the example that you should follow and in doing this you should push aside any race, ethnic or religious prejudice that you might have." If you have not yet come to this realization. How does this parable tie in with the questions that the lawyer asked, namely,"what must I do to inherit eternal life?" and "who is my neighbor?" In answering these questions Jesus stressed the importance of godly fruit and specifically in showing compassion and mercy to all people regardless of race, ethnicity and religious persuasion. This is realized because in Jesus' days on earth the Samaritans were looked down on and often outright scorned by Jesus' fellow countrymen mostly because they were a mixture of Jewish, Assyrian and other descendants. The city of Samaria was part of the nation of Israel, but the blood of the people there had been diluted by people of different races and their religious beliefs had been changed also. Ancient historical information on this is seen in 2 Kings 17 and this is clearly stated in 2 Kings 17:24. Today we have similar circumstances. All over the world today we have people from different countries, ethnicities and religious groups that according to Jesus' teachings and earthly example, we should have compassion on, especially if they too showed compassion to their fellow man. Jesus was never a divider of mankind. He was always a uniter. Jesus even said to "love your enemies".

Hi Jim Jack: This would take a lot of research work to provide a remedy for this when only looking at Old Testament scriptures and not our loving savior Jesus Christ as seen in the New Testament. However, I have a number of reference books and even biblical study software with multiple reference books. Simply post the scriptures that this person does not like and I can help with the study of these scriptures. I also have a NIV study bible which has comments on the verses. If you want you could even start your own thread.

Interesting that in the book, "Figures of Speech Used in the Bible", written by E.W. Bullinger. One of the long chapters in this over 1000 page book is a chapter titled "Idioma or Idiom. A chapter that I have not read, but with many verses quoted on this subject, it looks like a good biblical chapter. This chapter has 42 pages.

Hi Wordwolf! Thank you for this information. However, which book written by E.W. Bullinger has this information? I have some books written by Bullinger. In addition to the book, "The Bible Tells Me So". I have the books, "Figures of Speech Used in the Bible" and "Commentaries on the Book of Revelation". Perhaps a few other also.

Interesting therefore James must have been a member of the Way Ministry like most of us here. I knew someone from the Way Ministry also with last name Sebastian. First name of Phil. Sadly though, he passed away, died or is sleeping (figurative language as seen in 1 Thes. 4). Thank you for your feedback or information JayDee and jim jack.

Here is a link to an article that also looks insightful. Or at least should be considered for its content. The person makes a reference to E.W Bullinger, the English biblical article writer that wrote a book on biblical figures of speech. And yes, we today also use what could be considered figures of speech in our wording and speaking. As an example, "it is raining cats and dogs", is not literal, but simply means it is raining hard. https://overcomersharvest.wordpress.com/tag/idiom-of-permission-in-the-bible/ An article written by James K Sebastian. Someone who I do not know.

"Why would satan destroy all the wickedness that he was promoting?" In also answering Wordwolf's question, which was perhaps originated on this forum by Bill Rotach, below is a biblical verse to at least consider. Other verses are referred to for references in my comments that follow. The below has improvement after editing the original written content seen above. With darkness there are no burning flames of fire used for torture. Instead the chains of darkness symbolize a restriction on the sinful angels ability to see in order to deceive. Also the darkness the demons will experience in the future can also result in the demons being blinded so that they torture each other. This to me looks like their punishment. As an example this method of victory was used by God in an Israel war with the Midianites as seen in the book of Judges, chapter 7. Soldiers from Israel without the use of needed weapons defeated 15,000 Midianite soldiers. In Judges 7:22, 3000 Israelites simply blew trumpets and then the Lord God caused the Midianite soldiers to turn on each other with their weapons. Then only 300 soldiers were needed to finalize the defeat of the Midianites. Using blindness in a more positive way is seen with Jesus Christ himself blinding someone named Saul who later became the Apostle Paul. This is read in Acts chapter 9. Saul was part of the persecution of the followers of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ spoke to him as read in Acts 9:4-6. Before this a light flashed around him and he fell to the ground. Then Jesus spoke to him about Saul persecuting Him through the persecution of his followers. Then Saul was blinded. A few days later a follower of Jesus Christ came to him as directed by Jesus Christ and healed him of his temporary blindness. Saul then believed in Jesus Christ, received the gift of holy spirit and later came to be also called Paul. Paul later became a very knowledgeable Apostle Paul. Another example of this is seen in Acts chapter 13. Followers of Jesus Christ including Saul who as a Roman citizen was also named Paul were spreading the knowledge of Jesus Christ. They met a person described as a Jewish sorcerer and false prophet. A sorcerer is a pretender of magic powers. This deceiving person tried to turn people away from faith in Jesus Christ. Paul noticed this and opposed this person who had a satanical greedy wanting religious power and authority mindset. This greedy not service oriented person was then blinded for a season as recorded in Acts 13:11. As a result they had more followers of Jesus Christ as a result of more teachings about Jesus Christ with less deception coming from the greedy power hungry religious political elite at least for a period of time.

"Why would satan destroy all the wickedness that he was promoting?" In also answering Wordwolf's question, here is a biblical verse to at least consider. A definition of the above Greek word tartaroo, in the KJV was translated as hell is the following. In the future when the demons get blinded while being reserved for judgement. As long as they have the mindset of evil mixed with deception, since they will be blinded and not being able to see who they will be evil to. Then the demons could do this to each other. An example of this is seen with Jesus Christ himself blinding someone named Saul who later became the Apostle Paul. This is read in Acts chapter 9. Saul was part of the persecution of the followers of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ spoke to him as read in Acts 9:4-6. Before this a light flashed around him.and he fell to the ground. Then Jesus spoke to him about Saul persecuting Him through the persecution of his followers. Then Saul was blinded. A few days later a follower of Jesus Christ came to him as directed by Jesus Christ and healed him of his temporary blindness. Saul then believed in Jesus Christ, received the gift of holy spirit and was renamed Paul. Paul later became a very knowledgeable Apostle Paul. Another example of this is seen in Acts chapter 13. Followers of Jesus Christ including Saul who was also named Paul were spreading a knowledge of Jesus Christ. They met a person described as a Jewish sorcerer and false prophet. A sorcerer is a pretender of magic powers. This deceiving person tried to turn people away from faith in Jesus Christ. Paul noticed this and opposed this person who had a satanical greedy wanting religious power and authority mindset. This greedy not service oriented person was then blinded for a season as recorded in Acts 13:11. As a result they had more followers of Jesus Christ as a result of more teachings about Jesus Christ with less deception coming from the greedy power hungry religious political elite at least for a period of time.

Good common sense humblebee. Regarding purgatory, at least in spelling it relates to the biblical Greek word for fire, which is "puros". Regarding, "know anything for certain". The Apostle Paul, in 1 Corinthians chapter 13, teaches, "that we know only in part". There is no reason to be arrogant and think we know everything now. It is only when we see Jesus Christ face to face that we will see and know spiritual things fully or completely. However, we can all learn and improve in our knowledge. 1 Corinthians chapter 13.

Hi Allan: In using my biblical study software. the Greek word translated as "whole armour" from Wordwolf's quoted Ephesians 6, only has three usages in the entire New Testament. The three usages are Ephesians 6:11 , 6:13 and Luke 11:22. This is Strong's #3833. Here is a definition from Thayer's Greek Lexicon. The usage of this Greek word looks figurative and symbolic and not literal. As an example, I don't think Paul actually wore military clothing. But then perhaps he should have while at least trying to be peaceful with the hateful people. Regarding the usage of the word "soldiers" from the New Testament , the Greek word for this is used 26 times in the New Testament. Half of these usages are in the book of Acts. In looking at the usages of this word, it is mostly used as a literal soldier, especially in the book of Acts. However, it can also be used figuratively or symbolically.

As the bible relates to the words eternal and everlasting. This Greek word is often translated as age or in the New Testament Greek using English letters, aion. Here is an article on this subject written by someone named Mark Sanguinetti. I wonder who that is? Thank you Allan. http://christian-universalism.info/agegreekwords-pg1.html

I did not know about fire ants. Interesting, but obviously negative insects. Perhaps I should change my figurative language of demonic spirits to spiritual fire p i s s ants. Perhaps instead of p i s s i n g urine. They p i s s symbolic poisonous fire. However, I have read from the bible that when they are put in prison in the future, they will be darkened and blinded so that they can not see to deceive others. When darkened and blinded the only beings that they will be able to torture and p i s s on are each other. Below is a link to information on the sometimes restriction on the fallen angles or demonic spirits as read.at the top of page 6. This restriction of being darkened and blinded will be part of their future judgement. http://christian-universalism.info/myth-of-hell-pg6.html

Sounds like they had a bad dream. However, my dreams when I sleep at night are better. Yes, people sometimes experience torment in life through a bad injury or an illness. Sorry, but I am not a fan of mystic pagan gods. Instead I call them spiritual p i s s ants. Yes, sometimes people get thoughts from spiritual p i s s ants. Figurative language for demonic spirits. I am sorry ants for comparing you to demonic spirits.

I hope that you are at least willing to read one word here. The word "Doctrinal" and this is the area of this forum.. And yes, Doctrinal does include a study of the bible, which you are not interested in.

I looked up the word parable, since I rarely use this word. This means a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels. Calling this a parable is fine. Certainly much of the biblical teachings are figurative or symbolic and are not literal. Certainly there is an increase of knowledge showing what is available with Jesus Christ and his best teacher, the Apostle Paul. Regarding the new spiritual body patterned after the Lord's resurrected body. It looks to me like we will be able to fly. Perhaps even better than a bird. Perhaps even as good as an airplane. Maybe I am now combining a parable with a fable. I think being able to fly even better than a bird would be very good.

Certainly, Paul was the best teacher on this subject. However, there are many usages of the word heaven for both the Old and New Testaments from the NIV. I do not have time to read them now. Regarding life in heaven, I think your statement is valid and should at least be considered. One of the gospel chapters that has the word heaven in it is John 6. This is one of the chapters that could be read and analyzed. After reading these verses I did notice that it says that Jesus came down from heaven. In verse "40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” It does not mention going to heaven, but it at least says raise them up.

Yes, personal attacks are bad. However, one of the main reasons why Grease Spot Cafe has had less posters today than in previous years. Asking questions with no goal to learn. Why should a person answer a question when the person asking it will not even consider the answer explained to them? It is the practical equivalent of talking to a brick wall.

Rocky, again you have many questions that you have asked me in this doctrinal forum. I have answered at least some of them, yet you have ignored the answers to your questions. Since you have highlighted the above text that I posted. I am going to ask you the following question. Do you read the bible now? Obviously, if you have actual biblical questions this would involve reading the bible. And the asking of questions on any subject should involve the desire to learn from others.

I was simply asking questions. It was NOT declaring they were unwelcome. Yes, people ask questions here. I have also asked questions. Rocky and cman have combined to ask me many questions. In this doctrinal forum, I simply want people to consider the bible and make sure that they are at least reading it. Some people in this doctrinal forum read scriptures much. With work in reading it can help our understanding. Others look to me like that they do not read the bible much anymore.

TLC, your observations should at least be considered. They seem valid to me and show good biblical and spiritual sense. Certainly, more was known with Jesus Christ coming to earth with his teachings and insight. Also with the gift of holy spirit from Jesus Christ, this would mean more spiritual knowledge and insight. As an example of what you just stated. The nation of Israel when Jesus Christ came to them. As I understand it, people were looking for Jesus to be a King that would work to overthrow the Roman empire and put the nation of Israel as independent with power. Since he did not do that or work on that at all, they rejected him. The goal of Jesus was instead spiritual with the salvation of mankind and this was not seen by the nation of Israel, especially their political and religious leaders. Of course, they wanted the power and saw Jesus as a threat to their authority. Also perhaps only one Old Testament verse addresses afterlife for mankind. This is scene in Daniel 12:2. Here is the quote from the Young's Literal Version.

What you are suggesting is greed and not being service oriented and loving to humanity. It is better to be truthful, loving and service oriented. And this is the mind of Jesus Christ. The mythology of hell has not been corrected today. Comparing the Old Testament to the New Testament this mythology has instead increased. And if you ask me questions you need to at least try to read and consider my answers to your questions. Please remember that this is a doctrinal forum. Normally, a doctrinal forum would be for people that believe in Jesus Christ. The fundamentals of followers of Jesus Christ is that Jesus lived on earth, died for the sins of mankind and then God his Father raised him from the dead. Do the last few posters here believe in that? Or is this thought as mythology? Rocky, the first few posters for this thread viewed this forum with a positive mindset. The can of worms that you figuratively stated has only begun with your posts and mindset. Is a can of worms negative to you? Or perhaps there are too many worms in Arizona. But perhaps think of this positively as there may be more worms in other states.

The myths of hell with eternal torment for a lifetime of sin as believed by some do not have a loving mindset that follows the example of Jesus Christ. Instead the bible points out through Jesus Christ his son, that God is a God of love and this is what Jesus taught as his greatest commandment. To love God above all things and love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus in showing humility spoke of himself as the Son of Man, much more than as the Son of God. He was both, but he showed humility in calling himself the Son of Man, while relating himself to all of mankind.

Again and again and again. You keep ignoring all my posts and only looking at your words and beliefs. Sorry, but I do not want to waste my time attacking your posts. However, you are instead wasting your time disagreeing with my posts. Here is one sentence however that you just wrote, that I have NEVER DISAGREED with. The article is biblical and NOT a history lesson on the history of pagan religions that believed in hell. Instead I have stated at least a few times that hell did NOT begin with the Old Testament. Instead it begin with other religious beliefs and it has crept into some Christian denominations today. Are you one of the believers in hell? If you are then believe what you want. If you want to read about the history of hell then here is another link to read. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell Below is some information about the origin of the New Testament Greek word hades, which is sometimes translated as hell in the New Testament. Again if you believe in hell, then I don't care. Perhaps you can dream about it like you are on vacation in Arizona.

Rocky now shows he either has no interest in my post information on this subject. It looks like he does not even want to read it. Then learn from other people. Then Rocky, if you are interested in this subject, do a Google search. Here is an article titled, "The Church's Development of the Hell Myth" http://30ce.com/developmentofhell.htm This was seen after typing in your question with the wording: "Where did the myths of hell originate?" Rocky we at least agree on this subject. "The Free Market is a Cruel Myth". However, perhaps Rocky will now disagree with me perhaps because I said I agree with him on this. Or perhaps he will complain about adding what is below his name to this thread, while putting the quotes around his whole phrase instead of around only "Free Market".