Mark Sanguinetti

Rocky, it simply requires spiritual insight from God, the father, to understand spiritual content and concepts. This is seen in 1 Corinthians chapter 3. However, perhaps you also do not understand this. From the New International Version verses 10-14. This is what I see as some of the less complex parts of scripture. Other people are understanding scriptural content here. Do you even want to understand scriptural content?

Hi Cman: Thank you for reminding me that I am a workaholic. I did change the article name on my web site from the Myth of Hell to the new article name: The Myths of Hell. Yes, I sometimes make mistakes and need to edit, while I sometimes massage my head. Hopefully at least that was not a major mistake At least I hope. One thing though, I do not see how I can edit to change the name for this forum topic.

Rocky, why are you considering learning from Greek and Roman mythology? Does this now add to your view of God and Jesus Christ? Or would you rather learn about Jesus Christ by reading the bible? Before your negative comments have you actually read the article? The article is more than only one page or only one paragraph. My article also covers the most negative worship perhaps in the entire bible. This was the worship of the pagan God Molech that resulted in the murder of children. This is seen in the Old Testament on page 4 of the article. Rocky, the myth of hell did not begin with the ancient nation of Israel according to the entire worded Old Testament as seen in the often read New International Version. There are no usages of the word hell in the entire Old Testament as translated into the NIV. Instead since the Koine Greek language was used for at least most of the original writings of the New Testament, the Greek word Hades was used. This is one of the three Greek words that is translated as hell in the New Testament and the Greek word with the most usages of hell. If you don't want to learn about Hades from me and the article, you can do a simple top of 1st page Google search. Here it is. http://christian-universalism.info/myth-of-hell-pg1.html Regarding Sudo's graphic image. I find it interesting and a good example of religious denominations threatening their followers by saying that if you leave our denomination or join another conflicting doctrinal denomination, it looks like you will be going to hell after you die. I just giggled instead of getting scared. Also Rocky, I do not promote the first few chapters of the book of Genesis as being historical. Instead to me it shows spiritual truth. And as you quoted from my post "...in Genesis chapter 3:1-6. Here Satan the spiritual being is symbolically referred to as a serpent". And doing another Google search, symbolically means: "purely in terms of what is being represented or implied." And in the next paragraph of my commentary of the first chapters of the book of Genesis, I write, "Figurative language is used". Figurative language goes beyond the literal meaning of the words to give readers new insights. And the graphic image that Sudo posted is a very good example of figurative imagery.

http://www.christian-universalism.info/myth-of-hell-pg5.html The question of TLC regarding the devil has already been addressed on this page.

It sounds like you do not want to read my post. Perhaps you are here only to argue. Do at least the usages of the Greek words lake and fire make any sense to you? Obviously, the phrase "Lake of Fire" relates to the word "Lake" and the word "Fire". Many people think that this results in the eternal torment of most of mankind? In contrast I see the "Lake of Fire" at least having a goal of the purification of man's sin nature. And this is through the Lord Jesus Christ who even prayed to God right before he was murdered for no crime committed. He asked God to even forgive those people. Should a person that during his lifetime was never even introduced to Jesus Christ and did not know that he even existed. Yet the person did not start any wars and never murdered anyone, nor stole from anyone. The "Lake of Fire" as eternal torment could mean that person also would receive eternal torment.

Thank you for your comments Twinky. As a reward to me, may I pet your cats? Also hopefully your cats will get along with the dogs that are sometimes around me. A loving union of mankind with the future return of Jesus Christ. While also a union of dogs with cats. Yea!

I do not have time to write an article now on the “lake of fire”. However, I can give some brief information with the help of my biblical study software. The only usages of the phrase “lake of fire” using the same Greek words are at the end of the often symbolic and figurative book of Revelation. These verses are Revelation 19:20 (one usage), Revelation 20:10 (one usage) and Relevation 20:14-15 (three usages). The context of these verses is the judgement of mankind. The outcome of this judgement is not stated in these verses. The word “lake” was not seen in a negative manner. Instead it was seen with positive imagery. As an example, the “sea of Galilee” was a fresh water lake fed by the Jordan River, which was closely connected to the ministry of Jesus Christ. A fishing industry thrived on the “sea of Galilee”. Jesus called his first disciples Peter, Andrew James and John from that industry. On and around the “sea of Galilee” Jesus performed 18 of His 33 recorded miracles and issued most of teachings to His disciples and the multitudes that followed him. The Greek word "fire" is sometimes only thought of negatively. In reality this word for fire is the Greek word, “puros”. This is the Greek word that we get our English words “purify” and “purification”. In the first century before electrical power was invented and generated to use for lamps and light bulbs to help see. One of the things that fire was used for was to see at night and for warmth at night. Here are some of the other usages of this same Greek word “puros”, translated to English in the New Testament as “fire”. Luke 3:16 16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire (puros): KJV Acts 2:3-4 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire (puros), and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. KJV 1 Cor 3:13-15 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire (puros); and the fire (puros) shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire (puros). KJV

The Myth of Hell by Mark Sanguinetti Page 2 There should be no reason to learn from Greek and then Roman mythology. And for a warning, the God of this world, Satan, who is a spiritual entity, is very good at deception and promoting myths of falsity. The first and primary example of this is seen in Genesis chapter 3:1-6. Here Satan the spiritual being is symbolically referred to as a serpent, which is a crawling reptile or snake. In Genesis 2:16-17 after creating the world including agriculture, animals and mankind God told Adam that he was “free to eat from any tree in the garden”. However, “you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die”. This commandment by God was given as a test to Adam of his obedience to God the creator with proof that Adam was dependent of or needing God the creator. Later in Genesis 3:4 the serpent says to the newly created woman called Eve that you won’t die when you do something that God said not to do. The woman did not agree with the serpent at first. However, Satan was and is a master of deception and got her to ignore the Word of God, while instead following what the serpent said to do. Then Eve talked Adam into following the same deception. As a result as worded in Genesis 3:17-19 we have some pain in life today that physically ends with decay and deterioration or as the bible says humanity physically returning to dust. Figurative language is used, but a simple explanation of humanity is no eternal life for our physical bodies. Instead working to live and survive with the eventual death of our physical bodies which biblically is seen as being buried in “the grave”. As this relates to this myth of hell being eternal torment, this would also mean that death does not exist. Only a much worse, no death, never ending eternal existence of torture. In contrast, God has warned us that death or the grave does exist. However, God has also provided a means to eternal life through Jesus Christ our loving savior. Genesis 3:17-19 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. KJV There is no reason to promote ancient Greek or Roman mythology as the truthful word of God for either the Old or New Testaments. With regard to actual biblical quotes of the New Testament for the Greek word “hades”. Two of the ten usages are seen in Acts chapter 2, verses 27 and 31. From verse 27 we see that this is a quote from Psalms 16:10. Here are the two verses from both the New International and New King James Versions. Acts 2:27 27 because you will not abandon me to the grave (hades), nor will you let your Holy One see decay. NIV Psalms 16:10 10 because you will not abandon me to the grave (sheowl), nor will you let your Holy One see decay. NIV Acts 2:27 27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. NKJV Psalms 16:10 10 For You will not leave my soul in Sheol, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. NKJV The above renders the New Testament Greek word “hades” having the same meaning in the bible as the earlier Hebrew Old Testament word “sheowl” or “sheol”. With the Old Testament word “sheowl” or “sheol” meaning “the grave” or “the state of death”. This means the Greek word “hades” when used in the New Testament should also be viewed as “the grave” or “the state of death”. This is seen with the death of Christ. When He died, the Old Testament from Psalms 16:10 and the New Testament from Acts 2:27 using the New International Version says that Jesus Christ will not be abandoned to the grave. Jesus was placed in the Hebrew “sheowl” or Greek “hades” or grave after his death, but was not left there to decay. Jesus Christ was left in his grave (hades) for three days as stated by scriptures (Matthew 12:40, Matthew 27:40, Matthew 27:63, Mark 8:31, Mark 9:31, Mark 10:34, John 2:20-22). Then as we read in the New Testament, for example 1 Corinthians chapter 15, Christ was raised from the dead not from among the living. A primary myth of hell after death is relating death to fire with torment. There were certainly no fires inside of Christ’s tomb while He lay there dead for three days. His grave clothes were not scorched (John 20:6–7) nor did His body show any evidence of burns. The hades where Christ was, was simply "the grave" (or tomb), and that is what hades or sheowl means in the bible.

That makes sense that Victor's Wierwille's weird teaching that masturbation was man's original sin with Adam and Eve was taught in the "Christian Family and Sex" class. I vaguely remember him teaching that, but my memory as to where he taught it is not perfect. If he was alive today I would want to nicely and politely correct him on that weird teaching. I would perhaps simply let him know that we all make mistakes.

Sorry, but I currently don't have this article on one of my web sites. However, I do still have this article. It was not addressed to the Way International alone. Instead it was addressed to all who say they believe in Jesus Christ. Here are the last two paragraphs of this article.

I agree and in the late 1980s right after I left the Way International, I wrote an article which from scriptures showed the problem with the Way Tree leadership structure. The article was titled, "The Lordship of Jesus Christ, Contrasting the Lordship of Imperfect Man".

The main problem with Victor's teachings was that the biblical information that he perhaps or likely came up with himself without learning from other people were his worst and most errant teachings.For example his false teaching of the original sin of mankind with Adam and Eve being masturbation as heard in the PFAL class. In contrast his best teachings he learned from other people. This shows us that Victor was not living with enough godly "fruit of the spirit" I am glad that he at least learned from other people. His best book in my view was "Are the Dead Alive Now". It is written with many quoted scriptures in a simple and easy to understand format. Who did he learn this from? Gal 5:22-23 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. KJV

is anyone here near a Time Tunnel facility where someone can go back in time to see if Adam and Eve are actual historical people? Adam and Eve do at least represent mankind and the original sin with the decay and death of mankind. Also showing that mankind needs God and the savior Jesus Christ in order to have life and have life after death. Or at least that is mankind's hope. Below is a link to an article to consider that seems neutral on this subject. Please wag your tails on this subject. My own figurative language. I am sorry, but I am not literally a dog. But I at least can get most of them to wag their tails,, perhaps while I wag my tail. https://biologos.org/common-questions/human-origins/were-adam-and-eve-historical-figures

The bible is not a science book. Nor is it always a historical book. The bible is mostly a spiritual book, which teaches and shares the spiritual realm of existence. And regarding spiritual we now see through a glass dimly or sometimes even darkly. We don't always see all the truth of spirituality. Or as 1 Corinthians 13:9-13 points out, we now know only in part.

Ephesians 4:11-16 11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head — Christ — 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. NKJV In verse 11 above it lists five services for the edification of the body of Christ that could perhaps be called gift ministries. However, instead of gift ministries it says "work of ministry".

You would have to read the biblical article in order to see what is said. Here is the first page. There are many biblical quotes in this article comparing them to Greek and Roman mythology.

The Myth of Hell Here is an article that does not promote ancient Greek or Roman mythology and their pagan gods. Instead this article promotes Jesus Christ as the savior of mankind.

If the Way limb leaders are followers of Jesus Christ then they should also follow these scriptures. If they do not follow these scriptures then in practical application regarding marriage they are unbelievers. Hopefully as unbelievers they at least know how to wag their tails and not bark only. Friendly loving dogs know how to wag their tails. They should at least learn from dogs. 1 Corinthians 7:10-16 10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. 12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife? NIV

What are their names, especially their last name or family name? Anyone that knows them should try to get them to change and be more Christ like with God's Love. Is your son a believer in Jesus Christ? The limb leader family should obviously put on the mind of Christ instead of the mind of bias in their religious beliefs. We need to all improve. As a former Wayfer, here is a web site showing my beliefs now. http://christian-universalism.info/

Here are prophetic scriptures that show that during the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ that Life will be prolonged and health improved. It also says that people will live to be over 100 years old. There will still be death, but longer lives. In contrast to today we have cancer and other illnesses shortening people's lives. Isa 33:24 24 No one living in Zion will say, "I am ill"; and the sins of those who dwell there will be forgiven. NIV The city of Zion was used figuratively in Isaiah 60:14 as the city of the Lord or the Holy One of Israel. The spiritual meaning of Zion is continued in the New Testament, where it is given the Christian meaning of God's spiritual kingdom, the city of the living God (Heb 12:22; Rev 14:1) Isa 65:20 20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. NIV

in addressing the subject of the original poster here. The original sin was not masturbation or homosexuality. Do you believe it was one of these two? From Genesis it is not clear as to what it specifically was. Because it is not clear as to the specifics. Therefore after reading Genesis 2:16-17 my general conclusion is the following. In Genesis 2:16-17 after creating the world including agriculture, animals and mankind God told Adam that he was “free to eat from any tree in the garden”. However, “you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die”. This commandment by God was given as a test to Adam of his obedience to God the creator with proof that Adam was dependent of or needing God the creator. In addition, I agree with Waysider and Bolshevik and their posts here. Painting the spiritual devil as a serpent is symbolic and not literal. Satan is a spiritual being first created as an angel but then this angel turned bad. Instead of being service oriented, this spiritual being is greedy and wants power and authority instead of being service oriented to mankind.

To answer your question please read and learn from 1 Corinthians chapter 15. Perhaps I only mentioned the first part of this which is no eternal life for our physical bodies. Next is being raised with a spiritual body. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+15&version=NIV 42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

In remembering the PFAL class, I do not remember VPW teaching about homosexuality as the first sin. Instead I remember VPW teaching that the first sin was masturbation. Yes, mixing masturbation with the original sin also relates to sexuality. However, this shows NO sense and was perhaps his most errant teaching. As I recall Wierwille copied his best teachings from other teachers, while coming up with his worst teachings from his own thoughts. Saying that the hated serpent of Genesis relates to having sex with this monster is Crazy. Here is information on the original sin of mankind. Satan, who is a spiritual entity, is very good at deception and promoting myths of falsity. The first and primary example of this is seen in Genesis chapter 3:1-6. Here Satan the spiritual being is symbolically referred to as a serpent, which is a crawling reptile or snake. In Genesis 2:16-17 after creating the world including agriculture, animals and mankind God told Adam that he was “free to eat from any tree in the garden”. However, “you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die”. This commandment by God was given as a test to Adam of his obedience to God the creator with proof that Adam was dependent of or needing God the creator. Later in Genesis 3:4 the serpent says to the newly created woman called Eve that you won’t die when you do something that God said not to do. The woman did not agree with the serpent at first. However, Satan was and is a master of deception and got her to ignore the Word of God, while instead following what the serpent said to do. Then Eve talked Adam into following the same deception. As a result as worded in Genesis 3:17-19 we have some pain in life today that physically ends with decay and deterioration or as the bible says humanity physically returning to dust. Figurative language is used, but a simple explanation of humanity is no eternal life for our physical bodies. Instead working to live and survive with the eventual death of our physical bodies which biblically is seen as being buried in “the grave”.

Isaiah 2:2-4 2 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days That the mountain of the Lord's house Shall be established on the top of the mountains, And shall be exalted above the hills; And all nations shall flow to it. 3 Many people shall come and say, "Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths." For out of Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. 4 He shall judge between the nations, And rebuke many people; They shall beat their swords into plowshares, And their spears into pruning hooks; Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, Neither shall they learn war anymore. NKJV If this is prophetically showing the Second Coming of Jesus Christ then it says that we will not have wars in this future period of time with an obvious decrease in weapons. Instead during the last few centuries weapons have greatly increased. And today we even have nuclear weapons. Have we had wars in the last few years and last centuries? YES!!!

What NON-Christian person are you referring to and what article are you using as a reference? You are ignoring one of my points and questions that I asked you. What is "WAR"? Is this someone writing about a first century war?