Mark Sanguinetti

Why do you want to learn about the future coming of Christ from a NON-Christian? Perhaps someone with Greek Pagan Mythology. What is that which you are quoting from "War"? I am sorry for you,, but I am not going to learn from someone with a possible Greek Pagan Mind. Regarding spiritual I would rather learn from a very good teacher from the New Testament, named Paul. Or from the person who wrote the book of Acts. Or from Old Testament scriptures that do NOT include a Greek Roman Pagan mindset. The future thousand year period after the coming of Jesus Christ will, among other positive things that are not seen today, result in righteous governments which is the world's greatest need today. Here is a quote from a NON-pagan book Isaiah. Isaiah 32:1-2 32 See, a king will reign in righteousness and rulers will rule with justice. 2 Each man will be like a shelter from the wind and a refuge from the storm, like streams of water in the desert and the shadow of a great rock in a thirsty land. NIV In comparison to rulers who rule with justice, someone like Adolph Hitler before and during World War 2 did not rule with justice. And today in the USA, legalized bribery is not justice either. Instead the bible is against bribery in many scriptures.

Acts 1:4-8 4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." 6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" 7 And He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth." NKJV The above verses clearly say that with the receiving of the holy spirit, which first occurred on the day of Pentecost as recorded in the next chapter of the book of Acts. What occurred in Acts chapter 1 was only some days from the day of Pentecost as recorded in Acts chapter 2. With this the witnesses of Jesus Christ will spread throughout the world or as the verse says, to the end of the earth. The second coming of Jesus Christ is not required for the witness of Jesus Christ to spread throughout the world. Instead it is the receiving of the holy spirit for individual people as written in Acts 2. And in the next verses the coming or return of Jesus Christ will be seen and watched in the same way that he left the earth for heaven. Has anyone throughout history seen or at least say they have seen Jesus Christ return from heaven to earth? If this occurred in the year 70 AD, with at least some of his original disciples or some of the new disciples brought to Christ still alive during this year, you would think that they would write their own article, letter or book clearly telling about this with this added to today’s bible. And with this writing, unlike the book of Revelation, they would not have to worry as much about the crazy hateful people of the first century who wanted to murder the disciples in part because of their clearly written writings. The reason for less worry is that the devil and his agents get put in prison, where they belong with the second coming of Jesus Christ as seen in the book of Revelation chapter 20. Acts 1:9-11 9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven." NKJV

In the 1980s as I was leaving the Way International, I wrote an article titled, THE LORDSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST - Contrasting the Lordship of Imperfect Man. Below is one of the paragraphs from the article that I wrote. The partial sentence, "the denominaiton I used to associate with" refers to the Way Internaitonal. There should not be a single doctrine which magnifies some at the expense of others. Only God the Father and his Son Jesus are to be exalted. Yet today we have false doctrines such as the pope being the Vicar of Christ, or that by our minds renewed to God's word we take the place of the absent Christ, as was taught in the denomination I used to associate with. He is surely not absent nor is anyone, regardless of which denomination he heads, be it big or small, the head of the body of believers. The only head of the body of believers is seated at God’s right hand in the heavenlies, the Lord Jesus Christ. It seems the Church, as made up of all believers in Jesus Christ regardless of denominational affiliation, is continually in jeopardy of making its leaders as lords and even worse, mediators between God and men, when in fact, there is but one God and one mediator, the man Christ Jesus (see 1 Timothy 2:5). 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; KJV

WOW, I was expecting those two MAD Spies that Chockfull showed us in the video that Chockfull posted to hug each other in the end. But then maybe that will only be in the new heaven and earth.

WOW, those two guys on the video are really good at babbling and giggling. They are even better at babbling and giggling than I am. Congratulations!

I don't have time to research and write now because of my heavy work schedule. However, here is something from the Nelson Bible Dictionary that can be related to the period of time (one thousand years as worded in the Rev. 20:2-3) when Satan is put in prison. SECOND COMING Christ's future return to the earth at the end of the present age. Although the Bible explicitly speaks of Christ's appearance as a "second time," the phrase "second coming" occurs nowhere in the New Testament. Many passages, however, speak of His return. In fact, in the New Testament alone it is referred to over 300 times. The night before His crucifixion, Jesus told His apostles that He would return (John 14:3). When Jesus ascended into heaven, two angels appeared to His followers, saying that He would return in the same manner as they had seen Him go (Acts 1:11). The New Testament is filled with expectancy of His coming, even as Christians should be today. Various opinions exist about what is meant by the Second Coming. Some regard it as the coming of the Holy Spirit on the day of PENTECOST. Others regard it as the coming of Christ into the heart at conversion. Christ's coming for the believer at the time of death is still another view. Careful examination of the New Testament, however, makes it clear that the Second Coming will be a climactic historical event. The Lord will return in the same manner in which He left. His coming will be personal, bodily, and visible. The time of the Second Coming is unknown. In fact, Jesus stated that only the Father knew the time. Therefore, the return of the Lord should be a matter of constant expectancy. As He came the first time, in the "fullness of time" (Gal 4:4), so will the Second Coming be. The believer's task is not to try to determine the time of the Second Coming. We should share the gospel message diligently until He returns (Acts 1:8-11). (from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

History tends to repeat itself over and over again. So if the Roman Empire at the time of the writings of John was considered to be a beast. If someone with the same mindset of John or John himself was alive before and during World War 2, what would he consider Nazi Germany under Adolph Hitler? Would he say that Adolph Hitler was part of the reign of Christ or would he think of Hitler with Nazi Germany as a beast? Using the same figurative language after I thought of Nazi Germany as a beast, hopefully I would not disagree with John, the writer of the book of Revelation. Using common sense and our brains, you would think that under Christ’s reign for the thousand year period of Revelation chapter 20, that deception, hate and evil would lessen and not increase. Since I have a brain, I do see love and peace increasing during this 1000 year reign of Christ. However, over the last number of centuries we have had many wars showing hatred under not service to humanity ruling authorities, which using figurative language could be called beasts. The Greek word for Beast is used 39 times in the book of Revelation and only 7 additional times in any other New Testament verse. Starting with the first verse of the book of Revelation chapter 20 the word beast in only used twice in the last three chapters of this book. These two verses are chapter 20, verse 4 which favors people who did not worship the beast and says they will live and reign with Christ during the 1000 year period and chapter 20 verse, 10 which has the beast in the lake of fire being tormented.

If we are currently in this long period of time, stated as 1000 years where the devil and his deception has been put in prison. Why would we have wars in these centuries? For example, World War 1 and World War 2. There has also been other dividing and hateful things in the last few centuries. As another example, today in the USA we have legalized bribery of politicians, where the donors want a return on their investment. The bible has a number of verses that are against bribery. With Jesus Christ reigning he would be for the majority of people and for all people. Jesus Christ, is very loving to people. Yes, with much figurative language there is a lessening of knowledge with added complexity. The word of God needs to be simplified to overcome this. You mention one verse, Matthew 24:34 mixed in with a many verses teaching of Jesus Christ covering chapters 23, 24 and 25. In order to understand this one verse the other verses need to be read and analyzed. We will have many differences of opinion with added complexity in the bible interpretations. Any gaining of knowledge starts with learning the fundamentals first. For example, Jesus Christ's primary commandment is to love God above all and love your neighbor as yourself. I would think that with Jesus Christ reigning in this long period of time stated in Revelation chapter 20, that there would be an improvement in this. The only improvement that I see today is increased technology. This includes technology for wars that can kill more people in a shorter period of time. And you mention Daniel's book. Daniel even had trouble in understanding his symbolic visions. Dan 7:19-22 19 "Then I wanted to know the true meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with its iron teeth and bronze claws — the beast that crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. 20 I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell — the horn that looked more imposing than the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully. 21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom. NIV Dan 7:28 28 "This is the end of the matter. I, Daniel, was deeply troubled by my thoughts, and my face turned pale, but I kept the matter to myself." NIV

Here is Revelation 20:5 in its context. Revelation 20:1-6 20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while. The Saints Reign with Christ 1000 Years. With this the Devil gets put in prison for 1000 years. Verse 7 calls it prison where the Devil with his demons will be placed during this 1000 year period so that they can not deceive the people of the world. We do have deception now, but my goal is to lessen this deception at least in part. I simply do my best to be truthful during this age which is before the 1000 year reign with Christ on earth. If Jesus Christ literally comes to earth during this 1000 year period and walks and talks I wonder if people will be able to hug him as their friend? 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. NKJV

1 Cor 15:20-28 20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. NIV Acts 1:10-11 10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." NIV 1 Thess 4:13-18 13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage each other with these words. NIV Have we or anyone that sees, hears and thinks for themselves seen the Lord Jesus come down from heaven with a loud command and the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God? No, this is in the future and we do not know when that will be.

From 1 Corinthians chapter 3: 10--15. You can read these scriptures on this subject. We should do good works and not bad works. Rewards for good works, A loss for bad works. Even with works that are burned up while suffering loss, salvation is still scene in these verses. By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames. New International Version Below are the same verses from the New King James Version 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. Fire above is the same Greek word that is scene in Acts 2 with the original receiving of the holy spirit.

The book of Revelation was often written in vague figurative and symbolic language which makes it more challenging for people to understand its content. I think the reason for this is because at this time of authorship the disciples and especially the apostles of Jesus Christ were getting persecuted and sometimes even murdered by the Roman Empire Beast of the 1st century. This was with the help of the bias and hateful religious beast or beasts, who were looking to gain religious power, while NOT being service oriented to humanity. It looks to me like this vaguely written book of Revelation wording in some chapters speaks of defeating the beasts. Whether they are political, religious or spiritual. Part of this defeating of the beasts is putting the spiritual beasts or demons referred to with symbolic language in a garbage dump (my own figurative language), while lessening their deception. Some of this may have been in past ages, centuries or years. Chapter 20 of the book of Revelation is obviously in the future because today we still have the deception of the God of this world. Rev 20:1-3 20 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time. NIV With Revelation chapters 20 to 22, which is in the future, it is less challenging for me to read and can be read now. I understand at least some of it. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+20-22&version=NIV

https://store.biblesoft.com/products/963-pl1t-onetouch-pc-study-bible-professional-series.html They now also have the biblesoft software that can be used on Mac computers. Before this software could only be used on Windows operating system computers. The price is high, but maybe they also have a lesser version available. However, in scanning the page with link above they have a large amount of biblical reference books that can be seen with this software on computers. Good to hear from you also. I have been a worker bee and this includes also donating my time in biblical research in writing biblical articles. My goal is even to write a biblical researched book in the future. Hopefully by next year.

Here is a link to the biblical study software company. Yes, people like me use this software for biblical study. Bible Soft

In looking at this forum thread perhaps I noticed it because I saw my first name "Mark". Then next to it I saw "Beast". Sorry, but I am not a "Beast". Perhaps I am too skinny to be a "Beast". This is for humor only. I hope I get you to giggle also.

What operating system do you use with Bibleworks? This might need some experimentation to get the bible software to work again on your computer. Perhaps simply exit out of the software. Shut down your computer. Then restart your computer and restart the software. Either that or a purchase of an updated version.

I have and use very good bible study software that I use as a biblical reference with many biblical references. The software is named PC Study Bible. A company out of the state of Washington, BibleSoft. This software even has New Testament Koine Greek verse by verse text which was passed down over a number of centuries. It shows the actual ancient Koine Greek text with the actual Greek alphabet, English words, Strong's reference number and using English letter words to sound like the ancient Koine Greek words. Regarding Victor or VPW. He taught some factual biblical study that he learned from other people, for example E.W. Bullinger. He also taught some errant things that he came up with. Not everything he taught was true and not everything that he taught was false. As one example of true. I met him in 1984 at a conference, perhaps this was held in Tennessee. I walked up to him when he was with his best friend. I told him, "you look familiar, but I can't remember your name. But it sounds something like 'wear something'". Then Victor said, "Wherewolf. The three of us then giggled. And then I told him that I was sorry that "I will not call you Wherewolf". Then we giggled again. Regarding TWI, I am going to be neutral. Some of the things that were taught us were true and some of the things that were taught were not true. We all need to do editing when we write things to help with increased factual information. Another example of what VPW taught that was true. At one of his teachings at an event I heard him say that some of you will do improved bible teachings and teach more than I have taught. I think we all agree with him on that.

History tends to repeat itself. Yes, we have had figurative beasts in previous years and centuries. Hopefully we will not have another beast soon. The best place for beasts is in a garbage dump. My own figurative language. Below is something that I copied from a reference manual that helps me with biblical research. I hope all is well in Florida and that you are not to hot there. BEAST Literally, an animal; figuratively, a symbol, often prophetic. The word beast is used literally in three ways in the Bible: (1) any animal, both CLEAN and UNCLEAN (Gen 6:7; 7:2; Lev 11:1-8); (2) a wild animal, as distinguished from domesticated animals (Gen 1:24; 7:21; 37:20; Ex 23:11); and (3) a domesticated animal (Gen 1:24; 2:20; Ex 19:13). As a prophetic symbol, the word beast is used especially in the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation. The four beasts of Daniel symbolize four cruel, tyrannical governments: (1) a lion (Babylon); (2) a bear (Media); (3) a leopard (Persia); and (4) a dreadful and terrible beast (Greece). See Dan 7:3-7. In the Book of Revelation, two beasts are described in detail: the beast from the sea, a composite of the four beasts of Daniel (Rev 13:1-10), and the beast from the land (Rev 13:11-18). Apparently, these two beasts symbolize political and religious power respectively. In John's day, at the time when he wrote the Book of Revelation, the two "beasts" which opposed and persecuted the church were the Roman Empire (the political "beast from the sea") and the cult of emperor worship (the religious "beast from the land"). Together with the Dragon (Satan), they tried to destroy God's people. The Bible often uses the word beast in other symbolical or figurative ways. For instance, the psalmist wrote, "I was like a beast before You" (Ps 73:22), referring to his foolish, ignorant, and brutish behavior. The apostle Paul wrote, "I have fought with beasts at Ephesus" (1 Cor 15:32) - a metaphor for the enemies who fought ferociously against him and the gospel of Christ which he preached. (from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

Before any verse is quoted from the book of Revelation it is important to see that this book is written with symbolically figurative and not literal language. The following is one paragraph from a reference book that I learn from, the Nelson’s Bible Dictionary. Like its counterparts, the Book of Revelation depicts the end of the present age and the coming of God's future kingdom through symbols, images, and numbers. These symbols include an angel whose legs are pillars of fire, men who ride on horses while smiting the earth with plagues of destruction, and a fiery red dragon with seven heads and ten horns who crouches before a heavenly woman about to deliver a child. Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright (c) 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers The symbolic language of the book of Revelation also includes beast with the Roman empire being the beast of the first century under the hateful person Nero. The question is why was the book of Revelation written so vaguely with symbolic figurative imagery and not literal language? One possible reason is that books of the bible then were written in dangerous times under the Roman Empire who were persecuting the church of God. A number of apostles were likely even killed, which for no offense and with no punishment for this crime is the equivalent of legal murder. This includes the apostle Paul a Roman citizen, who may have been beheaded by Roman authorities. Because of unjust things like this in future years historically we saw the Roman Empire done away with and come to an end. Although an understanding of what many of these figurative symbols represented has been lost a truthful foundation of knowledge can still be understood. God is all powerful and eventually all the deception of the devil, the god of this age will be destroyed and cease to exist with Jesus Christ, who loves all of humanity and who I love reigning as king and Lord of all.

People use figurative or symbolic language sometimes. As an example, when someone says, "it is raining cats and dogs". Does that mean that the speaking person literally says that cats and dogs are coming down from the sky? If it does people like me would try to catch the dogs and Twinky would try to catch the cats so that they do not die. No, it is simply a means of communication that it is raining very hard. The book of Revelation also uses symbolic language. I hope it is OK to say that there are some good posts on this thread. Does that mean I am now writing about a literal thread used for sewing? Or does it mean I am writing about good posts on this forum? And yes the writer of the book of Revelation also used symbolic language.

Anything that we read regardless of the subject or content. It is best to read enough content to understand the meaning. Here is a very positive section of Revelation chapter 22 as it relates to seeing and following Jesus Christ. And this sections ends with "they will reign for ever and ever". I have studied the Greek words here. Using a more literal translation "ever and ever" is "age and age". From Thayer's Greek Lexicon this is #165, aioon. The definition is age, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity. 22 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever. This section mentions "the throne of God and of the lamb". This is referring to Jesus Christ the savior of mankind. The first man from the dead to live eternally. Many scriptures symbolically refer to Jesus Christ as the lamb of God to mix a mindset from the Old Testament of the sacrifice of animals for the atonement of sin. Referring Jesus Christ as the lamb of God identifies Jesus Christ as "the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world".

It looks like to him well researched information is "sayonara" and maybe I will see you tomorrow, but maybe I won't. However, scriptures quoted from the bible with the actual wording to him is perhaps a real turn off and arrogance.

TLC, at least read your own previous statement that begins with P.S. below, where you do the equivalent of attack others views. Please try to open your eyes and see well researched information, Namely, Nelson's bible dictionary and Strong's concordance of Koine Greek word definitions. They save time in research at least for me. And they allow me to double check their accuracy by reading the actual scriptures. For other people here they might find this interesting. I too have done and do biblical research. For example, I have given copies of articles that I have written to church pastors and they have seen them as fundamentally true. One of which is the Nativity Of Christ Greek Orthodox Christian Church. I hope it is O.K. for me to see other researchers as fundamentally true also, for example Greek definitions from people who know Greek. Also in previous years I gave an article that I had written to the former Way ministry limb leader of the the state of Texas after he had withdrawn from the Way ministry and after looking at the article I wrote he told me that it was like reading the bible. Below quoted from TLC P.S. Please be careful quoting word studies or definitions copied out of Nelson's, or Strong's, or any where else. TWI's research is infamous for missing the mark with them, and besides not being much help (we mostly all have those same tools), they can tend to come across as quite condescending.

TLC, you are showing from your quotes that you don’t want to learn from other people. Here I quote the actual scriptures written by the Apostle Paul and you don’t want to even learn from him. This is shown by you not even quoting from his writings. Do you even believe that Jesus Christ lived and walked on the earth? Do you believe that after he died, that God raised him from the dead to live eternally? That shows no sense to not learn from other people who have studied certain subjects more than you have. Some things other people know better than us and some things we could know better than other people. And here you go again, now ignoring the symbolically stated “beast”. You sound like if you actually met someone like Paul from the 1st century or Daniel from the Old Testament period of time you would ignore them also. Please at least try to show common sense. For example, the German nation under Adolph Hitler does not have to be a mystic nation. It actually did exist and yes could be called a beast that represented a kingdom of the recent century using the same figurative language. So when Nazi Germany lost World War 2. Did everyone in the nation get blamed for being beasts? They used common sense and had a trial and judged people according to what they actually did with a penalty of some kind for the people who did bad things. After this the nation of Germany and the people overall improved. So with the Judgement by God of people in the future do you think people will be worse than before? If scriptures are too complex for you to read and understand, then please at least try to use common sense. The future trials of mankind should have improved results for man. Otherwise what is the point? Only to torture people? Is this what Jesus Christ said to do right before he got murdered for no crime? Luke 23:34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” In contrast, some crazy people think that God's judgement in the future is only to torture.

TLC, all you are doing is IGNORING what I previously posted here. And what I post is not related to the doctrine of trinity. I only posted this because of YOUR QUESTION to me regarding "universalism". In contrast, I am making no positive judgement on the figurative "beast". And you are now mentioning something that is again unrelated to the original topic that you do not understand. You are even now doing what you are quoting from 2 Peter 2:12, "blaspheme in matters they do not understand". So now you are bringing up the word beast after ignoring something unrelated, the Greek word translated as fire, which is "pur". Below is information on the word "beast". Which you also might want to ignore. Please stop asking questions unless you want to learn new things. Also the word "pur" that I have quoted from relates to individual people. It does not relate to governments that today have power, which below are figuratively called "beasts".. These governments will not have power and authority in the future. They only get this today from the God of this weird world under Satan. My figurative language "weird world". BEAST Literally, an animal; figuratively, a symbol, often prophetic. The word beast is used literally in three ways in the Bible: (1) any animal, both CLEAN and UNCLEAN (Genesis 6:7; 7:2; Leviticus 11:1-8); (2) a wild animal, as distinguished from domesticated animals (Genesis 1:24; 7:21; 37:20; Exodus 23:11); and (3) a domesticated animal (Genesis 1:24; 2:20; Exodus 19:13). As a prophetic symbol, the word beast is used especially in the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation. The four beasts of Daniel symbolize four cruel, tyrannical governments: (1) a lion (Babylon); (2) a bear (Media); (3) a leopard (Persia); and (4) a dreadful and terrible beast (Greece). See Daniel 7:3-7. In the Book of Revelation, two beasts are described in detail: the beast from the sea, a composite of the four beasts of Daniel (Revelation 13:1-10), and the beast from the land (Revelation 13:11-18). Apparently, these two beasts symbolize political and religious power respectively. In John's day, at the time when he wrote the Book of Revelation, the two "beasts" which opposed and persecuted the church were the Roman Empire (the political "beast from the sea") and the cult of emperor worship (the religious "beast from the land"). Together with the Dragon (Satan), they formed an unholy trinity that tried to destroy God's people. The Bible often uses the word beast in other symbolical or figurative ways. For instance, the psalmist wrote, "I was like a beast before You" (Psalms 73:22), referring to his foolish, ignorant, and brutish behavior. The apostle Paul wrote, "I have fought with beasts at Ephesus" (1 Corinthians 15:32) - a metaphor for the enemies who fought ferociously against him and the gospel of Christ which he preached. (from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)