Mark Sanguinetti
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Posts posted by Mark Sanguinetti
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On 8/2/2022 at 7:31 PM, T-Bone said:
The previous posts got me thinking of the juxtaposition of Genesis and Revelation…found an interesting comparison chart:
Good basics for what you copied or posted after this. I simply cover this with more detail in three of the last chapters in my 16 chapter biblical teaching book.
Chapter Thirteen
When Will the Dead Be Made Alive Through Jesus Christ?The first paragraphs of this chapter explain the original deception of the devil who is figuratively called the serpent. Here is the second paragraph with quoted scriptures after this paragraph and inside the paragraph, which I wrote.
QuoteThe first example of deception is read in Genesis 3:1-6. Here the devil as a spiritual being is symbolically referred to as a serpent, which is a crawling reptile or snake. Before this in Genesis 2:15, God put man in the garden “to work it and take care of it.” (NIV®) This was likely both physical and spiritual since death had not yet arrived for Adam. Adam had the free will ability to do what he thought he needed or wanted to do. In Genesis 2:16-17, after creating the world including agriculture, animals and mankind. God told Adam that he was “free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die” (NIV®). This commandment by God was given as a test to Adam of his obedience to God the creator with proof that Adam was dependent of or needed God. This accountability to God was humanity following God regarding the knowledge of good and evil instead of humanity not relying on God, while trying to determine all without God’s help. Next begins the deception.
Genesis 3:4-5
4 And the serpent said to the woman, Ye will not certainly die; 5 but God knows that in the day ye eat of it, your eyes will be opened, and ye will be as God, knowing good and evil. (Darby)
Chapter Fifteen
End Times with the Judgement of Humanity Through Jesus ChristChapter 16
End Times Purification of Humanity Jesus Christ Reigning Supreme
Book with the title: Our Loving Savior Jesus Christ
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Regarding religious or political people who want praise and honor from humanity instead of being service oriented to humanity like Jesus Christ was and is. The word "beast" is figuratively used a number of times in the book of Daniel and especially many times in the book of Revelation. For the New King James Version the word "beast" is used 37 times.
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11 hours ago, johniam said:
The devil doesn't know exactly when Christ is coming back. The 2nd coming of Christ begins with the gathering together.
Interesting in that I cover this with basics and detail in two chapters of my biblical teaching book that are the following:
Chapter 13: When Will the Dead Be Made Alive Through Jesus Christ?
Chapter 15: End Times with the Judgement of Humanity Through Jesus Christ
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20 hours ago, Cynthia said:
I am just a humanitarian that loves Jesus
Interesting and Jesus loved and still loves humanity even after he was persecuted by the people with religious titles such as the Pharisees and Sadducees in the first century. And this biblical teaching book fully explains this love that Jesus has. Our Loving Savior Jesus Christ
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5 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:
Great. Thanks. Fascinating. What are those 7 instances in the NKJV that are not in the NIV?
I at least found six: 1 Samuel 9:27, Luke 4:4, Luke 8:21, Acts 13:44, Hebrews 11:3, and 2 Peter 3:5
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1 hour ago, Nathan_Jr said:
I noticed you didn't capitalize word of God. We've been exploring what the Word of God could be in this thread? What is the difference between the word and the Word? Any thoughts?
Any thoughts on who the only or primary teacher could be?
At least I capitalized God. There is NO need to also capitalize "word" in almost all usages of "word of God". Using my very good software program for bible study. The New International Version and New King James Version have only ONE usage of "Word of God" as read in Revelation 19:13. This simply refers to Jesus Christ in a figurative way as our savior with him tasting death for our salvation.
QuoteRevelation 19:13
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. (NIV)There are 40 other usages of "word of God" in the New International Version through out the bible and every other usage has "word of God" with "word" that is not capitalized. Using the New King James Version there are 47 other usages of "word of God" that also do not have "word" capitalized. Again the only usage in the bible that has "Word of God" refers to Jesus Christ in a figurative way as our savior.
QuoteRevelation 19:13-14
13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. (NKJV)Yes, we could have many people that teach about different needed subjects. Regarding the word of God. Jesus Christ in his earthly life was often called "Teacher", by other people. However, other people can also be called "teacher", for example Moses in Matthew 22:24.
QuoteMatthew 22:24
24 saying: "Teacher, Moses said that if a man dies, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife and raise up offspring for his brother. (NKJV)As one of the example of teachers.
Quote1 Corinthians 12:28
28 And God hath set some in the church, first (proton) apostles,
secondarily (deuteros) prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. (KJV) -
7 hours ago, Bolshevik said:
See?
Teaching.
Why is the word "teaching" used except in reverence to vpw?
It sounds like you may be a fan of VPW as THE TEACHER like he spoke in PFAL. However, I have ALWAYS seen, even when I was part of TWI, that VPW was one of the teachers, but NOT the only or primary teacher. Yes, I KNEW even when I was with TWI that VPW sometimes taught the true word of God, for example with his book "Are the Dead Alive Now?", but other times did NOT teach the true word of God, for example an audio teaching that I listened to in the late 1970s where VPW agreed with the Roman Catholic church with what he described as a hierarchy of leadership. In addition, he may have also agreed with the Pope as the Vicar of Christ as it relates to the Roman Catholic Church. Also VPW may have seen with other wording also as a type of Vicar of Christ for TWI.
Have a good day, but I now have limited time to waste.
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1 John 2:26-27
26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit — just as it has taught you, remain in him. (NIV)
Obviously other scriptures read that we can learn from true followers of Christ who are truthfully and not deceptively teaching. Perhaps you do not want to learn from someone named Mark Sanguinetti. Therefore you can instead learn from T-Bone who also teaches with scriptures. However, I wonder if T-Bone will now be ignored because of any even small compliment from Mark?
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Even though I have shared this with you in a simple manner. Perhaps you do not want to learn from me because I do not have a special high title. Therefore you could learn in a more detailed way from a bible commentary.
Quote1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
[But the anointing which ye have received] That ointment, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, mentioned 1 John 2:20, where see the note.
[Ye need not that any man teach you] The Gnostics, who pretended to the highest illumination, could bring no proof that they were divinely taught, nor had they anything in their teaching worthy the acceptance of the meanest Christian; therefore they had no need of that, nor of any other teaching but that which the same anointing teacheth, the same Spirit from whom they had already received the light of the glory of God, in the face of Jesus Christ. Whatever that taught, they needed; and whatever those taught whose teaching was according to this Spirit, they needed. John does not say that those who had once received the teaching of the divine Spirit had no further need of the ministry of the Gospel; no, but he say they had no need of such teaching as their false teachers proposed to them; nor of any other teaching that was different from that anointing, i.e. the teaching of the Spirit of God. No man, howsoever holy, wise, or pure, can ever be in such a state as to have no need of the Gospel ministry; they who think so give the highest proof that they have never yet learned of Christ or his Spirit.
(from Adam Clarke's Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.) -
On 6/30/2022 at 3:07 PM, Nathan_Jr said:
“You have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, in your hearts, so that you don’t need anyone to teach you what is right. For he teaches you all things, and he is the Truth, and no liar.” (I John 2:27).
In context, this is referring to a teaching from a deceptive person and not a teaching from a true follower of Jesus Christ. Yes, we can learn from each other as long as we are truthful.
Quote1 John 2:26-27
26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit — just as it has taught you, remain in him. (NIV)
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1 hour ago, T-Bone said:
Not sure what your point is.
Are you saying I am being aggressive or belligerent?
Are you saying I am distracting you from your research, and / or detracting from your book promo?
NO, this literally happened about 20 years ago. The person about 20 years ago deliberately tried to change my mind into his theology. However, before I taught at a church building to other people I had much more scripturally productive things to do and that includes reading the bible.
Years ago when I was at a Roman Catholic high school and on a basketball team, the coach wanted us to say before the game the following: “God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit”. I wonder if the Roman Catholic Church still has that view? Do you have that view of the trinity?
In addition with your following statement. Thank you for helping me laugh.
QuoteMaybe you should try using the word "Trinity"...Be a leader and not a follower...you might get some more Trinitarians to listen
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T-Bone about 20 years ago at a church a person who aggressively wanted to preach that Jesus Christ was God. I was teaching at that church and doing some research for a teaching that I was doing. While doing research before my teaching. This person was very aggressive with me and was trying to distract me from my research. I did not have time for this person. Another person who I was working with had time to talk to this person. He read from 1 Corinthians chapter 15 with verses between 20 and 28, while explaining scriptural things to him. Then asked him when "God may be all in all" does this make us God also? Then and only then did the aggressive person walk away.
In contrast, most people who believe in Jesus Christ that I have talked to that had a denominational church teaching of the trinity were NOT even close to as aggressive as this person was. One coordinator who is called father at a local Nativity of Christ Greek Orthodox Church here in California even purchased a copy of my book to read from. Because the word trinity is not in any version of the bible that can be found. Therefore I leave this word out of my biblical teaching book.
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1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. (NIV)A person who believes that Jesus Christ is literally God could have much difficulty with these scriptures, especially when being adamant about this subject, while hearing or reading these scriptures. Jesus Christ being the first man or human to be raised from the dead by God to live eternally with God the Father placing all authority under Christ for the salvation of humanity. Jesus Christ must reign at least spiritually until he has put all figuratively under his feet or under Christ. When the goal of God is reached with all under Christ his Son, then the Son will be made subject to God or turn all authority back to God his Father, so that God may be all in all. A question for the Trinitarians, does this mean that all humans will be God also??? I do not believe that. Instead all could be like God with God reigning supreme over all in the new heavens and earth. I explain this in the last two chapters of my biblical teaching book from the last chapters of the book of Revelation.
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3 hours ago, T-Bone said:
“For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form” Colossians 2:9 . I don’t really understand what that verse is talking about. But time-wise I believe it’s referring to Christ in his resurrected…changed…exalted form.
WOW T-Bone you may type very fast. Unless you use software that allows you to speak with your words turning into type. You would be a typing genius or a super typer. Regarding the context of Colossians 2:9. This relates to Jesus Christ as the head of the body, which also is explained by Paul with more detail towards the end of 1 Corinthians chapter 12. Here is at least some of the context of Colossians 2:9.
QuoteColossians 2:8-12
8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. 9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. (NIV)
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Good comment Nathan_Jr. Actually if Victor was still alive and I met him. I figuratively might even hold out my hand like I often do with dogs when I meet them. To see if they wag their tales or bark. If they wag their tale, I could pet them. If they bark I will walk away. And I really like dogs.
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14 hours ago, T-Bone said:
The few commentaries I’ve read on I Peter 1:23 don’t even try to explain it as a literal second birth but as a beginning of a life destined for eternity.
the Greek text of I Peter 1:23 indicates that the preposition “by” in I Peter 1:23 “by the word of God” is “dia” in the Greek Strong’s # 1223 and means through, on account of, because of…The new birth comes about through the direct action of the Holy Spirit (see Titus 3:5 ) but as indicated in I Peter 1:23 the word of God also plays an important role…
Yes, the context of this verse is the word of God. This also shows applying the word of God in our daily lives with sincere love for other people. As quoted from the New International Version here is the context.
Quote22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart. 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,
"All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall, 25 but the word of the Lord stands forever." And this is the word that was preached to you.
(NIV)Victor Wierwille was not 100% truthful with his teachings, but from his books he was at least above average. One day I even heard him speak at an event with one of his teachings. He described that at least one of you in the audience could or will have better teachings than I have taught. The year of this was a year between 1983 and 1985. This was a year after he had delegated authority as president of TWI to another person. The one time I met him I corrected him a little about the lordship structure of TWI. I figuratively did this by telling him, "You look familiar, but I can not remember your name, but it sounds like wear something." I wonder if people here are sad because they did not even try to correct any leader of TWI, when they were still with TWI? So perhaps they are making up for this by writing against Victor Wierwille on this forum.
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2 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:
No. But that's ok.
Though I very much appreciate dark humor, dogmatism is too dark, even for me. I find it physically repulsive; it causes inflammation in my brain and my heart and makes me sick.Congratulations, for your ability to get me to laugh. Perhaps you are a humor genius and I am not.
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29 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:
I don't identify as Trinitarian or Unitarian, but I find the contemplation of both ideas to be intellectually stimulating and spiritually rewarding. I'm only dogmatic about not being dogmatic.
Regarding the subject of dogmatic, perhaps I am only dogmatic, when I meet trained dogs who wag their tails and do not growl or bark. Perhaps, I could be considered dogmatic only when I meet friendly dogs while petting them. Was I successful in getting you to laugh???
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7 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:
Hi Mark,
Is the Greek Orthodox Church an offshoot of the RCC??
The Greek/Eastern Orthdox Church members I know would never identify their church as an offshoot, especially an offshoot of the Roman Catholic Church. I may be misremembering the European History classes of my youth, but I'm pretty sure Greek/Eastern Orthodox is not an offshoot, derivative, nor sect of the Roman Catholic Church.
I mean we're talking ducks and diamonds here, but your sentence jumped out at me. Had to ask.
That simply depends on the definition of offshoot. If you do not like that word. Another word can be used, for example separated. They historically were part of the Roman Catholic church, but they separated from this denomination and started another denomination. Regarding the word trinity, which is the primary topic of this forum. They do use the word trinity in their teachings. Here is a link with a web page that shows some of their teachings: https://www.nativityofchrist.org/our-faith-2/teachings/
Regarding the subject of trinity. Here are a few sentences on this subject copied from the above link.
QuoteWhile the inner Being of God always remains unknown and unapproachable, God has manifested Himself to us; and the Church has experienced Him as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Doctrine of the Holy Trinity, which is central to the Orthodox Faith, is not a result of pious speculation, but of the overwhelming experience of God. The doctrine affirms that there is only One God, in whom there are three distinct Persons. In other words, when we encounter the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, we are truly experiencing contact with God. While the Holy Trinity is a mystery which can never be fully comprehended, Orthodoxy believes that we can truly participate in the Trinity through the life of the Church, especially through our celebration of the Eucharist and the Sacraments, as well as the non-sacramental services.
One of the reasons that this church separated from the Roman Catholic Church is that they did and do not believe that the Pope should have all authority, while teaching everything.
Regarding the history of the separation of the Orthodox Church from the Roman Catholic Church. Here is a link for this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic–Eastern_Orthodox_relations
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Victor Weirwille made a mistake with his book title of: "Jesus Christ Is Not God". But his book was at least OK. However, a better book on this subject was written by John Lynn, John Schoenheit and Mark Graeser and they gave it a better title of "One God & One Lord". I have a copy of this book and have read it. I even read some of the content of this book to Christians that were involved with the Catholic church and they agreed with the book content and even liked it.
In addition, I explained this concept to an offshoot of the Roman Catholic church that call themselves the Nativity of Christ Greek Orthodox Church. I simply say that Jesus Christ is like God, but not literally God, he literally is the Son of God, while being seated at the right hand of God his Father. God his Father has delegated all authority under Jesus Christ his Son for the salvation of humanity. They agree with this. Also I explain that Jesus Christ in his earthly life showed his humility, while relating himself to common humanity by calling himself the "Son of Man", much more than calling himself the "Son of God". Yet common people and Christ's followers called Him the "Son of God" much more than they called him the "Son of Man".
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Since another important biblical subject has mixed into this thread. I am writing now about this important subject. To be a leader in the body of Christ being service oriented is needed and required according to Jesus Christ in his earthly life. I saw the problem with the hierarchy of church leadership in the 1980s and when I met Victor Wierwille at an event in one of the south east states, I figuratively explained this to him by meeting him and then telling him, “you look familiar, but I cannot remember your name, but it sounds something like wear something”. Perhaps Wierwille then saw the problem with this because he was not the main leader of TWI then, with him passing the leadership to perhaps Craig Martindale. So Wierwille then replied to me with the name “werewolf”, which is an animal so we then laughed and Wierwille was with his best friend. Then I apologized to him for not calling him werewolf. Then we may have laughed again. One of the reasons that Victor Wierwille saw this problem near the end of his life, because he perhaps heard that his son was criticized at a meeting at the Rock of Ages, perhaps by Craig Martindale. Then I raised my voice while explaining to them that there was no need to criticize this son as long as he was service oriented. He could perhaps be a leader also and I reminded them that Wierwille’s son was perhaps not a leader in TWI. I then may have reminded them that any church leader should primarily be service oriented to help followers of Jesus Christ. Perhaps Victor Wierwille heard about the accusing of his son with me defending his son and perhaps again explaining to them that any church leader should primarily be service oriented. After this in the late 1980s, I wrote the first draft of one of the chapters of my biblical teaching book with the title: “Lordship of Jesus Christ Contrasting the Lordship of Imperfect Man”. With more editing, this is the fourth chapter of my biblical teaching book.
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43 minutes ago, T-Bone said:
I tend to think wierwille’s posturing was typical overreach for a pseudo-Christian cult-leader…in effect he acted like the high priest who was the mediator between God and man. In the Old Testament the high priest was considered the highest religious position of all those who served at the temple. Only he could enter the Holy of Holies on the Day of Atonement to make atonement for the sins of the nation of Israel. The teachings of wierwille dictated how followers should think of and relate to God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit – and that is exactly the role of a mediator – one who attempts to make people involved in a conflict come to an agreement; a go-between…in case you forgot this, we already have a high priest – Jesus Christ, so we don’t need another middleman see Hebrews 4:15 & 16 .
As it partially relates to T-Bone's comment, in my biblical teaching book I state the following in chapter Four titled: Lordship of Jesus Christ Contrasting the Lordship of Imperfect Man
QuoteThere should be no doctrine or teaching which elevates some people at the expense of other legitimate followers of Jesus Christ. Only God the Father and his Son Jesus are to be exalted. Today we have false doctrines such as the pope being the Vicar of Christ, or that by our minds renewed to God's word we take the place of the absent Christ, as was taught in the Christian organization I used to associate with. Christ is surely not absent nor is anyone, regardless of which denomination or Christian organization he heads, be it big or small, the head of the body of believers. The only head of the body of believers is seated at God’s right hand in heaven, the Lord Jesus Christ (Colossians 3:1).
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Grade of "A" for your teaching, johniam in the first post of this forum thread. However, God could give you instead a grade of "A+". I do not explain this fully in my biblical teaching book. Instead in one of the chapters that is named "Reconciliation Through Jesus Christ". I explain that Jesus in his earthly life called himself the "Son of Man" much more than he called himself the "Son of God", thus humbly relating himself to common humanity as our loving savior. Yes, calling Jesus Christ God instead of the Son of God, can be considered deception. Yes, followers of Jesus Christ called Jesus the "Son of God" many times in the New Testament. And the word trinity is NEVER used in perhaps any version of the bible. However, the first deception as read in Genesis chapter 3 is perhaps the leading deception among Christians even today as originally spoken by the devil who is figuratively called a serpent. This deception is sometimes spoken today, that people after death will not really die. Instead, some people will go to heaven and be as or with God with most people going to hell with eternal punishment. This is still the number one deception today among Christians and this deception is sometimes even promoted by denominational church leaders. I scripturally cover this deception in two of the chapters of my book that are titled as follows:
“When Will the Dead Be Made Alive Through Jesus Christ?” and
“The Mythology of Hell That Contradicts Scriptures”
Yes, there is death for common humanity, however through Jesus Christ we have the future resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust as read in Acts 24:15. This includes current and future judgement by God and Jesus Christ. I cover judgement in chapter 15 of my book that has the title of “End Times with the Judgement of Humanity Through Jesus Christ”.
This biblical teaching book is named “Our Loving Savior Jesus Christ”.
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After filling out the online web site USA copyright form and sending 2 book copies to the Washington DC Copyright Office towards the end of November, 2021. Last month of May, 2022 I received a letter in the mail from the USA Library of Congress Copyright Office that said I had full copyright for the text that I had written.
The Absent Christ?
in Matters of Faith
Posted · Edited by Mark Sanguinetti
That is the WORST ERRANT doctrine that TWI ever taught and promoted. I clearly saw that as I was leaving TWI in the late 1980s. I even wrote an article to help educate people as I was leaving in the late 1980s. The article title was and is: "Lordship of Jesus Christ Contrasting the Lordship of Imperfect Man". With editing I even added this chapter as one of the 16 chapters of my recent biblical teaching book. The following is quoted from this chapter.
In addition, if I met one of the leaders of TWI now, I would try to correct this false doctrine in a peaceful way. Hopefully, they corrected at least some of this DUMB DEE DUMB DUMB, errant and false doctrine.