igotout

They can have my teenagers. :D--> (Just kidding)

Am I right Catcup? I am not making this up. They way I saw it in my 25 years in TWI, this was prevalent thinking throughout the mentality and culture of TWI. We just believed it because it was taught to us. Was that your experience too, Catcup? I am ashamed to have believed it even for a moment.

What's that LCM used to say publicly Something like... "The Jews of today are no more Jews than the Apachee Indians". This was the former President of TWI, folks. And this was stated in recent years by him. Just so some readers may be clear.... it was commonly implied and even stated from time to time in TWI...that the Holocaust was greatly exagerrated if it happened at all. According to the way I heard it, this holocaust myth was promulgated for the purpose of the Jews of today gaining more sympathy and power in modern society. In fact the first time I went to HQ in 1974 there was a small bookstore in the back where I saw my first copy of a little pamphlet free for the taking called "Myth of the Six Million." I picked it up, read it and was fascinated by it and believed it. I would see it many other times through the years in TWI at Advanced Classes and other such places. Unbelievable isn't it! Shameful! May we NEVER forget some of the things Sunesis posted.

Bob - you once told us we were "foolish" and bewitched like the Galatians for not paying off our mortgage and becoming debt free. Oh, you were just soooo ingnorant of these matters, especially in our situation. You reprimanded us for contacting our friend Bob Vigxxola, when he was cast out of TWI on his ear and was not to have any contact with anyone in the household. I'm glad we got to tell him we love him and care about him before you interferred. You told me "in all your 30 years as a leader in TWI you never once saw even a hint of sexual impropriety in TWI among top leaders". You told us that "Toots" was ousted from the household because she lied about her illness and made the whole thing up. She later died from that illness. We never even had a chance to say goodbye to her. I forgive you. But you are screwed up in my opinion. John Richeson Tampa, FL

Good point Mr. Hammeroni. In all these years on these forums including Waydale, and with communications with friends and fellow believers and associates from all over the world..... I have not heard ONE good thing said about her by ANYBODY. As you said, this is not even true of LCM or VPW. Heck, a lot of us liked "Craig" at one time years ago when he was our immediate Corps leader. Personally I do not know her and do not care to. But Fox.... simply seems to me like a bitter, old, lonely person with few real friends and mostly unliked and unloved most of her life. It's beyond pathetic. Lots of people in this world like that. Many end up at the end of their miserable lives with no one really caring much about them and mostly glad to have them out of the way. Astounding that she is tolerated by the current active shrinking followers! LCM did it. He perhaps wanted to cause misery to others on his way out the door. Or perhaps he was politically forced to put her in that position because of what she must know. Another one of his many bad decisions, maybe his worst ever.

Vickles, just save up for a new computer all together. Windows 95 & 98 are old, old, old. So much has changed since then I don't know where to begin. Even if you buy the cheapest of hardware today it will be an improvement over an old system. And whatever you buy will alreay have XP preinstalled so you don't have to go through all the work. Your time is valuable too. JR

Ha, ha, ha, ha. Moneyhands an Ambassador. Ha, ha, ha, Belle! Good, go far, far away to someone else's country for a while. Thanks for leaving our state. It will be better off without you. Bye. We'll still be here enjoying the sunshine and beaches while you follow orders from the queen bee. Ha! Oh, my what a life! John Richeson Tampa, FL PS - Hey Belle, there will be people in both our areas who will leave when Moneyhands goes. Always happens when someone like him goes. Seen it happen a million times. Some only stay because they like them specifically. Maybe our next party we'll have some "new people" ha!

To quote this newspaper article: Without Walls buys Carpenters Home "Without Walls, the trendy Tampa congregation that claims 15,000 members, was looking for a place to establish a second congregation in Central Florida. Their Tampa location would be the headquarters, while the second church would be a satellite. From there, they would target the Lakeland and Orlando areas. In Lakeland, Carpenters Home was having some problems of its own. The church built a $12.5-million auditorium with 10,000 seats in 1985. But in the past 15 years, attendance dwindled to 2,000, barely a sprinkling of folks in their massive sanctuary. At a recent conference, an idea emerged: What if Without Walls bought the auditorium at Carpenters Home Church?" That is what took place last week. Without Walls paid $8 million for the auditorium and its adjoining property. With all due respect.... TWI, you are like the "Carpenters Home" of Ohio. It is time to be realistic and sell or give away the lemon of a ministry you have. To do otherwise is an injustice and a waste of the ABS of the current household believers. John Richeson Tampa, FL

Glad you saved face Cathy. I am having endless problems with this card by ATI. ALL IN WONDER PCI EXPRESS Do not buy this card! Better to stick with Nvidia cards in my opinion, especially for multi-monitor. ATI's TV products are lousy IMO. I shoulda known. BEtter to get a stand alone TV card like this one from Hauppauge. Watch & Record TV on your Computer Ordered two Nvidia cards (to handle triple monitors). Nvidia 6800 with dual DVI, PCIexpress Returning the sucky ATI card for a full refund. It was hard to convince them to do that. Lots of tech support and troubleshooting first. Who has the time!! Remind me never to build a computer again!

Hey Catcup. How are you? Of course we were told that VPW was THE man of God of the whole world. I heard this from as early as 1974 from most everyone when it came up. It was not only strongly implied, it was stated and taught all over the place as evidenced by the tape you have. Furthermore, we believed it. I was present at AC '79 when this was said so I was among the 4,000 who heard it. (Will you be in Tipp this summer? See you there if so.)

That link is invalid. THe 7th Corps site is moved to here. Save it in your favorites: 7th Corps Website John R.

I am a little behind on this thread so I regress to the previous post on a curious point: Galen you said: "We have been audited, numerous times." Why? Chances of getting audited under normal circumstances are very slim. Did it have somethng to do with your very creative accounting and tax reporting? Careful!

I wouldn't publish that too loudly. It just does not seem possible to do legally. Did a professional look over your returns? How long have you been doing this? Careful if you get audited. Penalties and Interest are steep and we have even known one Corps couple who went to prison. But I wish you success.

For one thing it was just too heavy. I believe in session 1 or 2 he got right into confronting new people about the horrors of homosexuality and the trinity. And I think even abortion was addressed early on (it's not murder at all you know according to his teaching.) Now that will attract lots of new people.... yeah right! Furthermore, it was jut too perfect. Every flower petal was in perfect place. There was not a spec of dust anywhere. And those brand new million dollar cameras caught every fake smile and every forced emotion from the "master teacher". It was sickeningly perfect in every way. Suspiciously perfect! Also in my opionion it was not his own but rather a copy of PFAL with major embellishments. He should have just made up his own class from his own inspiration. But personally I did not sense much inspiration at all. Now lets get to the doctrine. Basically it sucked in my opinion. Too much to go into here ranging from Eve being a lesbo to the millions of years of Geological Plate Tectonics happening ovenight thanks to some dude with a funny name Peleg I think. In spite of its man made "perfection" it was a failure for many, many reasons. John R. PS - the only good thing about it was the sessions were only 2 hours or so plus a break instead of the 3 in PFAL. With our busy American culture I think they learned that lesson. No one has that kind of time.

Yeah, that's what I personally believe. It is becoming more and more obvious. I hear that Rosie does not even make herself known so much these days but allows others to run things and teach, etc. From what I heard from a long time innie recently, she is admired for this and is looked upon as a CEO. Ha, ha, ha! How much more laughter can we get from the deceived ones. CEO, yeah right! If she were the CEO of some corporations out there she would have been fired many times over and over for incompetence and corruption. I see it more like someone who fought their way to the top who is avoiding the LIGHT and living comfortably on the millions available to them while not being productive in any real manner of speaking. Yeah, folks, your abundant sharing at work.

Oh, and I have this from my notes from WayDale in 1999 posted by Paul almost exactly 6 years ago: Fri May 14, 1999 11:57am Subject: Re: Current Way Numbers The Way continues to suffer from the 13 - 14 year long hemorrhage of people leaving its fold. Every day people leave TWI and there are less and less replacements. In March, about 78 WAP (Way of Abundance and Power) classes were run all across the USA. But with the new class size guidelines, those classes were tiny. Average class size 4.5 students.These 350 students were the result of an all out determined effort to win new people to TWI. Given the historical evidence in TWI on how many people TWI holds on to - those 350 don't go very far. TWI loses that many people every couple of months. The current numbers for TWI "membership" are as follows: 7,100 total on the mailing list of TWI, less 2000 who are not at a working age (children 12 and up who are WAP class grads)

Nice post HCW. You said it all and I agree wholeheartedly. In fact I copied it. It is a good summary of the current situation. DEAD. And the current directors have control of as much as $50 million of OUR hard earned ABS. Why on earth would anyone think they need more? What are they doing with it but hording it. And they taught us that money should not be horded. They should practice what they preach.

Repent with sackcloth and ashes from the butt cans of Emporia, TomTuttle, and ye shall be forgiven.

Oh, I miss the original Napster. Most of my hundreds and hundreds of files came from there. It was so great there for that brief peried to go online at any given time and find ANYTHING by the droves. I still have some rare downloads from then. I have enough for now. Can't listen to them all anyway. Ask the teens if you want to follow the mp3 trail today. But their stuff will be names you have never heard of and will never listen to. Funny, a lot of them like the Beatles. Some I know are getting into vinyl collecting and they sit around and listen to records on a turntable. "The Times They Are a Changin" Again.

Sadly, thay have lots of OUR money to live on indefinitely if they so desire. Camp Gunnison, Inc. is valuable, worth I would guess $20 million. TWI has tens of millions from what I hear. The leadership can live comfortably off that until they croak. But if I were an average participant, I would stop contibuting NOW. It seems to be such a waste of money. "Your Abundant Sharing at Work."

Excellent breakdown Wordwolf. Honestly I agree with your numbers. Seems about right to me. Phone hookup number may have been accurate because if I recall, when the coordinator dials in he has to give the number in attendance. So the 4000 may be accurate but it could very well include a 6 year old child or somebodys grandma. But for the numbers of real supporting and contributing disciples, I agree with Wordwolf's assesment: "I figure the real number of members is somewhere between 1500 and 2000," Ooops..... make that 4 less because our Corps friend GB and their whole family left just last month and went right to CFF. :D-->

Hey ya'll? How ya been? I have been entangled with the affairs of this world, working a lot, busy, tripped out. Anyway, Iain is in Canada. He called me a few mos ago. Up and left his country with his family out of the blue to move to Canada where he is compelled to start a ministry helping less fortunate people. And he is starting a window washing business. (Hence the call to me, the master.) He's as friendly as he has always been. He sent me a nice picture of his family, and Don's family but asked me not to post it. Did you know Iain has a 16 year old son and 13 year old girl triplets! Kathleen married a 12th Corps guy (Phillip Brewer) she met at Gartmoore. No children. Living in Portland, OR. Radar O'Reiley came for a visit and so did Belle last weekend. It was nice to meet them after all this time. Bye for now friends. Keep the laughs going. (Someone should copy this thread and make a book out of it.)

Well the 5,000 is reduced to 3,000 mostly because of kids. Ok be conservative and say there are 4000 active (unlikely). Still it is low, low, low compared to its realistic peak of 50,000 in the early 80's before VPW died. Yes, there were as many as 100,000 who took pfal. But a pretty reliable source has stated that there were about 50,000 really involved at its peak. Now there are what..... 3, 4 thousand? And shrinking.

It was good to meet Radar O’ Reiley and Belle for the first time this past weekend at Hope’s 50th birthday bash. After all this time as online friends, we finally met! Bo & Stanley R. also came as well as Randy & Kathy G., Hodges, and other friends near and far. Anyway, one topic that came up between drinks was just how many people are left in TWI? It seems to be a tightly guarded secret. But I think TWI owes it to their supporters to reveal hard numbers just like other organizations do. But from their website we read: http://theway.org/Current/WayProd2/62ndAnniversaryMusic.htm “...over a thousand people participated in the anniversary celebration held at the headquarters of The Way Ministry, and nearly four thousand more joined in on phone lines from around the world.” So at least 5,000 plus are involved at a minimum right???? NO WAY HOSEA! Without going into all the discussions, we calculated in real terms there are at most 3,000 people who really support and follow TWI as disciples and that includes staff. Not too many years ago the number was much larger, maybe twice as much. Do your own calculations. You may have an even smaller figure. However, I think you will see evidence of the “incredible shrinking ministry.” Ha! We used to be encouraged to “go down with the ship” spiritually if necessary. But personally I would jump ship into the one of the many others all around that are not sinking. To do otherwise is just like spiritual suicide in my opinion. John Richeson "Ex-Disciple" Tampa, FL

Socks, excellent words of wisdom. Makes perfect sense, your explanation of giving inspirationally. Yeah, Skyrider, I was already an evil horder of money (a good saver) when this was being pushed. I just couldn't see giving more when he was living in a luxurious log mansion and having every tiny little need taken care of even more than many multi millionaires of today. Servants at his beck and call, every speck of dust in order. And he wasn't very good at his job to boot, losing millions in ABS via multiple bad decisions as I saw it. Yet he beat us up spiritually and belittled us and on every hand as did some other leaders. What a misreable life and one which I would hope he is regretful of today. It also makes me a little angry that these top leaders of today stood by and did nothing about it and say nothing of it this day other than to make him appear as their scapegoat. I believe it was not ALL his fault. No apologies to anyone. What gutless cowards.