WordWolf

Trying to remember ANYBODY from that movie besides the title character. I thought Robert Vaughn was in it, but he was in Superman 3.

* watches video* Ok, for the record, I disagree with the letter of what he said exactly. I do agree with him that there are Muslims and other non-Christians who DO seek God in one form or another, and I DO think that God Almighty has SOMETHING up his sleeve to cover that. I disagree with him that those in that category who don't know Jesus are in the One Body of Christians. I appreciate his trying to address an important issue, but think he fumbled on the 5-yard line and didn't get where he should have. He wasn't saying "everyone gets into Heaven" or any number of other things that vaguely resembled what he DID say. In short, I'd have corrected him on the subject but I wouldn't have defenestrated him over it. As always, YMMV.

Boy, did YOU miss some important discussions in the last decade....

There's been threads specifically to outline what copyright is, and what plagiarism is. Simply put, using the work of others without citing your sources is plagiarism. If it is word for word, it is plagiarism....and if it is NOT word-for-word, it is STILL plagiarism. vpw moved a few words around and changed some synonyms from Stiles' book so that later printings of Receiving the Holy Spirit Today less directly resembled Stiles' book from which it was initially retyped, and it was STILL plagiarism. At no point did vpw's book include a note saying ANYTHING was from Stiles (when all of the original was, and the later ones plagiarized also from Bullinger and Leonard, neither of whom is mentioned in it EITHER.) Even Public Domain books can be plagiarized if sources are not cited. Homer's "the Odyssey" is in the public domain. I can print off a run of books titled "the Odyssey by Homer" legally- and there's plenty of public domain books in print, cheaper because they're public domain. However, I can't print off the same book titled "the Odyssey by WordWolf" because that's plagiarism- the contents were from Homer. There's even been Christians who've done this with books in the public domain. VF wrote a book about "the Two Natures" largely restating Bullinger's book on the same subject with the same title. He cited his source. And when VF did a print run of his book, he did a print run of Bullinger's (public domain) book, and sold them side-by-side. People bought them together. This is NOT a difficult concept to get- but we always seem to circle back to it whenever someone defends vpw. Then suddenly that person (not you) doesn't understand what plagiarism is, reads over definitions and then claims that restating a few words excuses it, or an off-hand comment mentioning one person one time is a blanket clearance for failing to cite sources, etc. We get this periodically, depending on who's feeling like calling vpw a really nice guy that week instead of a plagiarizing rapist. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/12755-plagiarism-101/ This was one of the threads where we actually had the definitions and explanations of plagiarism-followed by some people determined to misunderstand them. In case you're interested.

So, once again, all of this stems from your manufactured solution to a manufactured problem. You keep laboring under the supposition that the Biblical documents we have nowadays are unreliable and remnants. That's a gross misstatement of what was known when wierwille was in school- and he was a poor student of history but never made the claims you did. He claimed that we could study-"compare one word with another" and so on-HIS WORDS- and arrive at a position where we could say of the results "Thus saith the Lord." I've noticed you've backed off that claim of wierwille's as well. From what I've seen, most of the research that isn't just reading is checking a critical Greek text and seeing if the word in English is a fair translation of the Greek word (generally, when I get stuck, that's the reason I was stuck.) There's similar solutions when checking the Hebrew (or the Syriac or Aramaic if you're so inclined.) A websearch can show details of what reliable, old documents exist-and not a lengthy search, either. vpw claimed the oldest documents extant were from the 4th century AD- which was error even when he said it. Documents go back a lot farther. Truly dedicated researchers can compare the most ancient fragments with the less ancient fragments- and nearly everything corresponds with what we have now! (Again, problems with awkward versions, but all off the same Texts and the Texts were accurate.) The ancient Hebrew corresponds in an even more shocking manner despite the centuries. (I'll make a thread about this when I have time, documenting the specifics.) So, there's no need for new original documents since the old original documents worked just fine. If anything needed fixing, it was dependence on a 450-year-old version (KJV) when there were new versions that were superior to it, both in concept-for-concept and word-for-word. Again, a manufactured problem since clearer versions are on sale in your local Barnes & Noble right now.

Joey Pantoliano Running Scared Billy Crystal

As has come up before, simply putting END-NOTES rather than footnotes eliminates your imagined problem of "clutter." NOBODY ever claimed "Babylon Mystery Religion" was cluttered, even you. That book had end-notes in every chapter, and documented EVERYTHING. BTW, "rural" people don't claim they're exempt from copyright, that's just something you've made up.

There was an open stage, and the back had white scaffolding (just like in the Travolta movie.) God Almighty was represented as a rainbow of colors behind the entire stage, The devil was depicted as an animated amoeba projected above the scaffolding with the colors flickering through it- except for when it was introduced as an angel and was depicted as a small amount of white light that was changed after he rebelled (and became the amoeba.) The villainess had the amoeba on her costume once she was fully the villainess. The big hero of the production was the minister, whose outfit got rainbows added to it. If you paused the video at the right moment, you could see the other Christians all patting lcm on the back at the same time. Supposedly, he only did the part instead of Heywood who originated it because someone suggested it. Knowing lcm, he dropped lots of hints until someone said it out loud, then announced someone said it out loud and agreed to follow "their suggestion." I imagine the villainess was later embarrassed for working on it. I met her brlefly a few years later, and she NEVER mentioned it-and I recognized her name as soon as she gave it.

I thought "Tony Clifton" would be the giveaway. He was an alter-ego for Andy Kaufman that Bob Zmuda sometimes dressed as, so there were only 3 people who played him- Kaufman, Zmuda, and Carrey as Kaufman in "Man on the Moon." We also had Dick from "Fun With Dick and Jane", Bruce from "Bruce Almighty". Mr Popper from the "Penguins", Carl Allen the "Yes Man", Peter Appleton from "the Majestic", Count Olaf from the "Series of Unfortunate Events", both the me and myself from "Me, Myself and Irene", Fletcher Reedle the "Liar Liar", and so on. Your turn!

I never realized there was more than one taped version of AOS. Typical twi...

It WAS a good voice for the narration. Naturally, my favorite part WAS the narration. After all, it included the only actual BIBLE in the darned thing...

Are you talking who did the voice-over narration, or who came out in the tuxedo to introduce lcm? I'm pretty sure I got Weingarner's name from a caption that appeared below him when he was onscreen, and the credits showed the name of the man who did the voice-over narration, and it was someone I'd never heard of. (The closing credits came after all the dancers were introduced, and did a final fade-out. Then there was a dark screen, then after THAT was some low multicolor stage-lights, and the technical credits. Yes, back when it first came out, I actually sat through them-once it came out in VHS, that is, and got my own copy.)

Since the copyright holder never authorized nor issued the PDFs nor the videos, they're illegal to own or distribute. Widespread copyright infringement doesn't turn something into "public domain" no matter how hard it is to catch the copyright violators. The reason you can't find the thing on Facebook, YouTube or other sources (ezboard's source was taken down as soon as it was discovered) is that it's still illegal. YouTube in particular has a very itchy trigger-finger on anything SUGGESTED to be copyright infringement.

Skip Tarkenton Mark Kendall Walter Getz Johnny Squares Wiploc Joe Wenteworth Tony Moroni Bobby Todd Brad Peters Tim Carter Steven Russell Scott Riles Steve Gray Dave Williams Walter Sparrow Ebenezer Scrooge Dick Harper Joel Barish Bruce Nolan Peter Appleton Fletcher Reede Lloyd Christmas Carl Allen Count Olaf Charles Baileygates Hank Evans Tony Clifton Colonel Stars-and-Stripes Thomas Popper Jr Fire Marshall Bill Seriously, it's about to get obnoxiously obvious next...

Man, who've I seen from the gang, outside of a Star Wars movie? Wait, I never SAW them in something else... William Shatner Over the Hedge Steve Carell

Leonard never taught others to reteach his class. That's why vpw had to ask for a special exception to teach Leonard's class locally on a onetime basis, which Leonard allowed. That's when vpw taught that class and said it was his own and never mentioned Leonard- but considered grads of Leonard's class to be grads of his class as well. We got that from a poster who took Leonard's class, and asked him specifically about all this. Leonard never complained to him-although this was AFTER the 80s- that vpw changed "gift" to "manifestation." So, I'm more than a little skeptical this rumor had nothing to do with Leonard himself. Leonard was rather specific that he was unhappy that vpw lied and claimed it was his class.

John Juedes did the work on this. In this, vpw benefited from 2 things- time and obscurity. By the time vpw plagiarized Bullinger, Bullinger was long dead and could not contest anything. vpw kept a very low profile, so Stiles never heard vpw plagiarized him. Leonard eventually did- and added elaborate copyright notices to his books and addressed plagiarism as a really bad thing to do. He chose not to take legal action. It is my OPINION that he chose not to take legal action because of cautions in I Corinthians 6 about not suing the brethren. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians+6&version=KJV That's my best guess as to why-I've never spoken to him on it nor read him specify a reason.

I thought that was Dr Weingarner who did the introduction onstage. At least, he did for the filmed one. If you saw it live, you might have seen someone else introduce it, of course.

From the earliest tapes and books, vpw's materials all carried a copyright notice. If vpw was claiming he could use anything freely, but others could not, he would be a rather blatant HYPOCRITE. If he said others could use his materials freely after slapping copyright notices on them, he would be a rather blatant LIAR. His actions do not hold up to your paradigm. Your previous answers to this were that one standard applied to vpw and one for everyone else: A) everything belongs to God so vpw could plagiarize everything and it wouldn't count against him B) of course vpw had to copyright everything and prevent people from using anything- otherwise they'd misuse it I wonder if you still think those are valid.

This is the ENTIRE preface to the White Book, RTHST, Receiving the Holy Spirit Today...(3rd edition and later, which is when Stiles' name-but not his material- vanished from the book)

A) As far as I know, no public figure of any kind ever stepped forward to endorse vpw in any way, even though he tried to get them to- athletes, judges, etc. Even Hayes Gahagan didn't- and twi got flak for trying to get him elected as state representative in Indiana. He kept putting them onstage whenever possible in attempts to get their endorsements, however, and gave New England Patriot Tony Collins a WOW pin with no real justification despite never even signing up for the WOW program. B) It was indeed claimed by vpw that he was invited to Ronald Reagan's inauguration ball. I'll quote someone who looked into it... http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/6801-presidential-inogeration/?tab=comments#comment-140229 "In 1981, Wierwille obtained an invitation to one of the events of Ronald Reagan's inauguration, and word filtered down through the ministry that Wierwille had access to the president himself. Word had it that Reagan was a "believer", and since the word was used exclusively of Way members, some took this to mean that Reagan was actually a follower of The Way. As evidence, the proponents of this theory would say "Have you ever seen Ronald Reagan going to church?" In a Jan. 1981 newsletter to Ohio believers, state leader Bob Mirabito wrote: "Dr. Wierwille has personally been invited by President-Elect Ronald Reagan to the Inauguration Ball this January 20th. It is not one of the satellite balls. There will be only 1,000 people in attendance". A spokesman for Reagan's Inaugural Committee, speaking to the Emporia Gazette, scoffed at reports that Reagan had personally invited Wierwille to anything. "He would not have been invited by President Reagan and ended up in the same computer lists as the 175,000 others" said committee spokesman Bob Billings. Billings said that there was no ball with only 1,000 people, and that with roughly 43,000 people attending about nine balls, the average attendance was closer to 5,000. Noting that invitations were handed out on request, Billings also said his office had extended an invitation to a man who identified himself as "King of the Gypsies", and claimed to represent a union of practicing Gypsies. On Feb. 9, 1981, Kansas Senator Bob Dole, future Republican presidential nominee, wrote in answer to an inquiry from Herb Diamond: "I realize that there has been a great deal of concern about the participation of Victor Paul Wierwille, leader of The Way, in the recent Inaugural activities. I want to assure you that Mr. Wierwille's presence was as a private citizen and not an official guest. It seems that the invitation to Mr. Wierwille came as a result of a routine phone request to a congressional office that a V.P. Wierwille attend an Inaugural event. Whoever took the phone message did not recognize the name, and so it was passed on along with other such requests..His presence in Washington in no way represents any kind of official recognition of him or his organization by the Administration. quoted from The Cult That Snapped by Karl Kahler, p 124-125." Anyone wanting to know more about twi might do well to read Karl Kahler's book. Kahler's done his homework.

Skip Tarkenton Mark Kendall Walter Getz Johnny Squares Wiploc Joe Wenteworth Tony Moroni Bobby Todd Brad Peters Tim Carter Steven Russell Scott Riles Steve Gray Dave Williams Walter Sparrow Ebenezer Scrooge Dick Harper Joel Barish Bruce Nolan Peter Appleton Fletcher Reede Lloyd Christmas Carl Allen Count Olaf Charles Baileygates Hank Evans Tony Clifton

Ok, each hero getting one makes it a lot harder (Superman, Batman and Spiderman could fill the dozen.) So, 1) Superman (live-action B & W, color with Lois and Clark, Smallville, Superman-the Animated Series....) 2) Batman (live-action 1966, cartoon from the 1960s, cartoon from 1977 with Bat-mite, the Animated Series, The Batman....) 3) Wonder Woman (live-action series with Linda Carter) Witchblade (Yancy Butler) was basic cable, IIRC-but was neither DC nor Marvel so is off the list. The Green Hornet, the Lone Ranger and Zorro were never DC nor Marvel comics, so they don't count. 4) Spiderman (live action 70s show, 60s cartoon, His Amazing Friends....) 5) Plastic-Man (70s cartoons-there were 2) 6) Captain Marvel/Shazam! had both a 70s live-action show, and "The Kids Super-Power Hour...with Shazam!" To be fair, I'm throwing in Isis because it was the same show, and she wasn't a comic book character until a few years ago (during 52, IIRC.) 7) "Black Lightning" now has his own show (after decades of alternate versions of him as "Black Vulcan", "Soul Power", etc. Since "Static Shock" was from Milestone, I won't count him on the list (even though they joined DC later.) 8) Flash (60s cartoon, as well as the 2 live-action TV shows.) 9) Atom. Green Lantern, Aquaman and Hawkman all had 60s cartoons, I will count all of those as one show since they tended to all air together. 10) Iron Man (Armored Adventures and the other cartoons.) 11) Captain America-the live-action show, the motion-capture comic cartoon, etc. 12) The Hulk (regular cartoon, motion-capture comic, live-action show, etc) 13) The Sub-Mariner and Thor both had motion-capture comic cartoons, Thor appeared in a Hulk live TV special, as did DareDevil ) The Blue Beetle appeared on "the Electric Company" but was a walk-on, so he doesn't count. 14) John Constantine had his own live-action series. 15) Swamp Thing had a live-action series and a kids' cartoon. (Why?) 16) Amethyst, Princess of Gemworld had shorts on Cartoon Network. 17) Flash Gordon was a tv serial and a cartoon, and there was a DC AND a Marvel comic of him! 18) Chris Chance, the Human Target had a live-action show 19) Supergirl (current live-action series) 20) Green Arrow (current live-action series)

Well, "About the Way" was apt if it was specifically to discuss some connection between twi and Graham (possible, if unlikely.) "In Memoriam" is specifically for memorials, which limits the discussion. "Open" is for any discussion that doesn't fit anywhere else- which is why this thread ended up here.