WordWolf

A) I Samuel 1 covers Samuel, not David (who may not have been born yet.) B) God warned Israel at length that having a king was an awful idea for them, before acquiescing to THEIR insistence that THEY wanted a king. (All of I Samuel 8.) The first king was Saul, the second was David. Both seemed ok to some people's views, but both were disastrous for Israel, each in his own way. C) "things wouldn't be going very well for him and Israel from now on." That's remarkably understated. "But David immediately repented and so God completely forgave him". Actually, God promised David's punishment would be PUBLIC (II Samuel 12:12), that strife would never depart from David's house (II Sam 12:10). and that he'd lose from his house (II Sam 12:11), and that his future son FROM this sin would die (II Samuel 12:14.) You make it sound like God blew off David's punishments. David wasn't killed for it, but he suffered the losses he earned. D) David repented, and is mentioned in Hebrews 11. Then again, Gideon's also mentioned in Hebrews 11, and he's hardly the poster-boy for bravery. E) The top leader of all Israel had sex with another man's wife-and the power dynamics in play make this coercive by virtue of him being able to have her killed or everyone she cares about killed if he feels like it, so she MUST comply. David attempts to cover it up by arranging to have an innocent man murdered and made to look like an accident (the fortunes of war, but he was set up to be the only man behind enemy lines and thus certain to die.) David was unrepentant UNTIL Nathan confronted him directly with what he had done, and God's Judgement upon him for it. THEN David repented (he'd been caught and was going to be punished.) That's no better than any little kid who's not sorry UNTIL HE'S CAUGHT. THEN he's "repentant." David served his full sentence, and repented. THEN God forgave David-but David still had to live out his well-earned punishment first (as much as could happen "first",anyway- the sword never left his family during his lifetime.) F) Present-day Christendom is not a political entity like Israel, nor a country like Israel. Furthermore, it's not a country ruled by God Almighty. So, this really doesn't seem to go anywhere close to a reasonable comparison.

Sorry I didn't respond immediately to your 2nd pm, but occasionally life interferes with my internet posting, and it did so again. This question was answered a long time ago. The oddest part is WHO spilled the beans on this one originally. That was CHR1S G33R of all people. Mr "I'm enshrining wierwille's stuff" himself had to address this because he came across it, and it was too blatant to leave alone. That was back in the early 1990s, with a 2-tape set on the subject (I used to joke that it was one tape per kingdom.) However, the subject really didn't take long to cover. Bullinger came up with it, and it was one of the incidents (there were others) where Bullinger came up with something and decided that was true without tying it to the Biblical usages. vpw, naturally, plagiarized him without checking out whether or not it was so (vpw was a LAZY plagiarist and often didn't understand what he plagiarized.) However, there's few Biblical usages of EITHER phrase, and they're used in parallel verses to make IDENTICAL points in the SYNOPTIC Gospels. There is no BIBLICAL justification for saying they're 2 different things. The only justification is "if God meant one thing he would have used one word, not two", but this isn't the only example where there's 2 words or phrases that mean the same thing. Language is NOT mathematically exact-which means communication CANNOT be mathematically exact. There's a beauty and a poetry in a living language that would evade a cold, calculated language. I'll expound on the subject as soon as I have a reasonable amount of time, but really, it just takes the reading of the verses side-by-side and a willingness to let their overt meaning be the conclusion. In the meantime, someone linked to a discussion where it was already explained. Everyone except the vpw fanatics on that thread was able to follow without difficulty.

Somehow, this was overlooked..

[I appreciate you're honest that your approach IS PFAL. That's the biggest problem people are having here-primarily because that approach is limiting and has errors built into it based on taking vpw's word for all sorts of things. The result is that there's plenty of errors we all should have caught back when we were in twi but never actually looked at closely because we really thought vpw was a godly man whose godly approach to God gave him, personally, a clearer insight into things, and THAT, not plagiarism, is how we got all the twi teachings, pfal materials, and so on.[/b] Actually, vpw stole the first version of the pfal class ENTIRELY from BG Leonard. This is really old news in the ex-twi community. In fact, he considered those who had taken Leonard's class to be graduates of "his" class as well, without them needing to sit through the material all over again. Later, he added material from JE Stiles' book, and that became material of the last 4 sessions, as well as the major contents of "Receiving The Holy Spirit Today" (which was what the 1.0 class of pfal was called.) Later, he added Bulllinger and had material to fill out the middle 4 sessions, and split the class into "Foundational" and "Intermediate" (aka "the TIP class".) ] [The sad part is this: if you take the techniques you mentioned (and the others you referred to), and ruthlessly applied them to the materials you were taught, you'd have a rude awakening of how many things you were taught, and how they had NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER with what the Bible says. The so-called "Law" of Believing ALONE is enough to make the point clear-the supposed 5 steps are never demonstrated in Scripture or anywhere else. ("Needs and wants Parallel" was explained with this imaginary woman who wanted red drapes. "She had a need, and the need was, she might as well have red drapes, that's what she wanted." That was so blatantly illogical that it remained in the taped classes, but the people who edited the books left it out because it made NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.) Another example is the "Standing vs State" thing, and there's others, of course.]

WordWolf: [You really don't get it. Despite your own assertions you checked it all out, and aren't just regurgitating what you learned in pfal, your first time at bat was entirely based on something made up-as in "not based on the Bible"- that vpw taught and you swallowed without actually checking. The whole concept was based on a term that never carried the meaning ASCRIBED to it. So, contrasting "standing" vs "state" is incorrect because even if "state" meant EXACTLY what you were tauight, the Bible does not contrast that with the act of standing up (what "standing" means in the Bible.) So, the limits of what you know are the limits of what was taught in twi. And much of that was error-filled. You have not put it to the test on your own. You know LESS than you think you do, and have failed to test all those things for accuracy (old news around here.) You're convinced you can teach us, when we've done this and you haven't. It's like me doing a seminar for PhDs having never studied for a Masters in their field. Mind you, even IN twi, I was trying to do better, to improve on what was taught, and to learn from sources outside twi. ( I was an eclecticist from the beginning, so that just goes with the territory.) This would concern me if I were you.] [P.S. - Just for fun.....According to the Bible, what is the difference between "the kingdom of heaven" and "the kingdom of God"?] ====================================== Twinky: "Don't go there, WW..." ========================================== TLC: " why not? Kingdom of heaven is predominately spoken of in the gospel of Mathew, and quite specifically refers to the reign of Christ (here on earth.) Kingdom of God kicks it up a notch and should be considered or viewed from a broader perspective. (not that TWI's research dept. ever came up with a simple way to differentiate between the two...) " =========================================== [INCORRECT. You also hit one of my points quite nicely without meaning to. Seriously. There aren't many cccurrences of both phrases in the Bible {"kingdom of heaven" "kingdom of God.") Abandon all preconceived notions. Then read each occurrence in its contents, one right after the other. The answer to my question will then become PAINFULLY easy to state. Please pm me privately with your answer, since I want to see if rrobb can manage it without someone giving away the answer.]

My OPINION is that-if it refers to us as well as the people he spoke to at the time- then it refers to having the pleasure of leading people into "The New Birth." Before Jesus ascended, people could do lots of supernatural things, but not that. Also, I think twi fetishized speaking in tongues and added so many things to their practice that it didn't resemble actual speaking in tongues.

[You really don't get it. Despite your own assertions you checked it all out, and aren't just regurgitating what you learned in pfal, your first time at bat was entirely based on something made up-as in "not based on the Bible"- that vpw taught and you swallowed without actually checking. The whole concept was based on a term that never carried the meaning ASCRIBED to it. So, contrasting "standing" vs "state" is incorrect because even if "state" meant EXACTLY what you were tauight, the Bible does not contrast that with the act of standing up (what "standing" means in the Bible.) So, the limits of what you know are the limits of what was taught in twi. And much of that was error-filled. You have not put it to the test on your own. You know LESS than you think you do, and have failed to test all those things for accuracy (old news around here.) You're convinced you can teach us, when we've done this and you haven't. It's like me doing a seminar for PhDs having never studied for a Masters in their field. Mind you, even IN twi, I was trying to do better, to improve on what was taught, and to learn from sources outside twi. ( I was an eclecticist from the beginning, so that just goes with the territory.) This would concern me if I were you.] [P.S. - Just for fun.....According to the Bible, what is the difference between "the kingdom of heaven" and "the kingdom of God"?]

[Sorry, but you've stepped outside the Bible in your usage. The word "standing" appears in the KJV 52 times. 51 times it rather clearly refers to either a building/standing structure or a person, in either case the physical act of standing up (a building that stands, a person who stands on his feet.) The other instance is Micah 1:11. The same word rendered "standing" in Micah 1:11 in the KJV is generally rendered "support" in other versions, and is rendered "standing-place" in many of the others. So, this usage of the word "standing" as you have given it does NOT appear in the KJV. From where are you drawing this meaning, if not the Bible?]

Go Melissa McCarthy Spy

Rrobs, presuming everything you posted was serious, you're running into some very elementary and very obvious problems. 1) You do not know where you are. The GSC exists specifically to "tell the other side of the story" with twi, and sometimes with its offspring, the offshoots. That means that, not only is it NOT a vpw admiration society, it is the opposite of that, and people have told about the many felonies for which vpw would have gone to prison if he had been caught, and if he hadn't been as thorough as he had been in covering his @$$ when raping women and making sure they wouldn't tell on him. So, posts extolling his brilliance, or ignorant of the rather fundamental flaws of pfal and twi materials, will reflect poorly in this crowd. (vpw plagiarized and often didn't really understand what he plagiarized, so he reproduced correctable errors entirely, and sometimes quoted incorrectly and contradicted himself, and sometimes added a few things to make himself sound like he was walking around getting revelation when he was using hidden sources for his (often wrong) claims, and occasionally adding a bit of charlatan showmanship to make it look more convincing.) 2) Furthermore, posts which reflect a vocabulary centered around twi-speak that also include claims that the poster examined vpw's work independently and thoroughly expose a rather marked lack of thoroughness in that department. 3) The GSC exists to "tell the other side of the story." It is not a Christian messageboard, nor does it need to be. There's no universal consensus on doctrine among posters that represent a variety of Christian positions, Jewish, atheist, agnostic, wiccan, etc. So, expecting everyone here to agree on the Bible as THE standard is not effective, even if it's not as volatile as trying to get them to agree on twi materials as THE standard. 4) Because there's such a variety of posters, there's no one official consensus. However, you'll notice that nearly all the posters agree about vpw's plagiarism having been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and about his rapes and molestations having been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. That's because they're so well-documented and tracked after the fact that people from greatly-differing perspectives agree on them. 5) If what you're looking for is "the cheerful posts", the GSC is not the best forum for you. It's here to INFORM. Do you look to the evening news for your daily dose of sunshine? Furthermore, there's threads that are fairly cheerful. They're NOT in the forum where we discuss vpw's felonies. 6) Much of the time, we don't need to rehash the same felonies here- except when someone arrives and announces they didn't happen or that they were exaggerated or that it's fine that vpw was a plagiarist and rapist or whatever. THEN we have to get into the same old horse manure all over again. 7) The fact that we've informed people about vpw's felonies and so on does not mean we spend all our free time being depressed, negative people. We all have lives, and they're not on this board. The blithe dismissal of people with fantasies that this is how they spend their off-time is trite, and one defense mechanism of those who desperately want to imagine vpw was half the man he claimed he was. 8) If you really want to get into Doctrine, post in Doctrinal. If you want some light-hearted fun, we have gaming threads. in the Movies/Music forum. If you just want to repeat how wonderful vpw was and twi was without finding out why we disagree so strongly, this is the wrong messageboard for you. There's closed communities online that do little else but that very thing. They welcome another poster parroting the party line and would love to have you. If that's NOT what you want, then pay a little attention and consider changing your approach here. All the wayspeak, posted here, is a lot like someone showing up to a Holocaust Survivor panel in a Nazi uniform and playing the jackboot.

When the Death Certificate lists the TYPE of cancer that was the cause of death, someone dismissed it with "cancer shmancer", If you got cancer in twi, vpw HIMSELF would have gotten on you for it, since he said it was devils that were responsible for them, and if you were vulnerable to devils, it was a failing on YOUR part. (Job's miserable comforters had nothing on vpw when it came to suffering misfortunes, especially illnesses.) vpw would have reprimanded you for dismissing it so blithely- except you were excusing HIM, and HE gets a free pass from all the condemnation he passed around and judgements he passed. When plagiarism was discussed, someone dismissed it with "nonsense!" The examples of plagiarism are proven, documented, and extensive. (Not all the plagiarism has been documented, but almost everything vpw taught came from the pen of someone else.) When someone can dismiss those things so casually, I can't take them seriously. I certainly can't respect them.

If nobody else besides me can name the character (I have seen pieces of the movie, also), can someone identify him other than by the actor's name? I'm hoping for "partial credit" by referring to him in a legitimate way as to the role (i.e., how would you describe him if the person didn't know who Deniro was?)

Most of the people I'd recognize from this movie, I'd know from television roles. Except Tony Curtis, but I don't think I could have named a 3rd movie he was in even if it WAS a valid move. However, the "Muttley" role was played by someone I'd recognize: Peter Falk the Princess Bride Cary Elwes

"You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? Then who the hell else are you talking... you talking to me? Well I'm the only one here."

"Jamie Blake"? Is this DEAN MARTIN?

(wrong thread) Since I posted (by accident), let's take a free guess with "Marty".

*thinks* *thinks some more* You're referring to John Belushi dying. I haven't seen all of his movies, but this wasn't "Blues Brothers" nor "Animal House", I think. Larry Gelbart is a writer I've heard of. Was this movie "1941"?

Based on the possible silliness of the later quotes, I'm going to take a swing with "What's Up, Tiger Lily? "

Mrs Wolf is watching it.

Hamlet. Wordpup could even answer that one. "Alas, poor Yorick. I knew him, Horatio. A fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy." (I remember that part because I've heard HIM say it a number of times. (Skull imagery doesn't scare him, it reminds him of Yorick.

Ok, that provided a piece I was missing. I knew that vpw said he chose lcm as his successor because lcm would always follow his orders- but he was expecting to die in a few years, which would make that criterion useless. However, having lcm follow orders from HA and DW would make some sense. The problem came because lcm was not in on the con! vpw KNEW he was saying one thing in public-a nice thing, often correct- and saying the opposite in private- self serving and immoral- making sure that few of us knew what a perverted disgrace he was to the family of God. His con was so successful that he convinced lcm that all his pronouncements came by divine revelation (not his dedicated telephone line to the John Birch Society or anyone else). So, once lcm had the chair, he was convinced HE would get pronouncements by divine revelation. So, he believed the con and began (eventually) making stupid pronouncements that chased off twi members. vpw's own con tripped up his plans. As for what DW got out of it, he was able to use his running of Emporia for his doctrinal thesis to complete his doctorate in Education.

vpw was a sociopath. None of us even EXISTED to him, except in relation to what he could get out of us. As regards to gays, there seems to have been nothing he wanted from them per se (and he didn't want other men sexually,) As for the women, they existed primarily for what he could get out of them-which includes what he could get out of them sexually. A lesbian was of limited interest to him, but a bisexual woman was much more. A lesbian could offer him a "free show" -reports from really inside said he liked to watch women get it on, as a warm-up for him using one of those women. So, a lesbian could offer the view and the warm-up for him- but a bisexual woman who offered the free show could then be used sexually by him, completing he whole show for him. I've heard some guys really go for girl-on-girl, so it wouldn't shock me if this already-established pervert had that in his list of fetishes. It totally doesn't surprise me that he could picture a woman as a "performing artist" as "foreplay" before he pressured her for sex- not any more. Officially, vpw was against all things that weren't monogamous sex in a (heterosexual) marriage. UNofficially, there was "the lockbox" (his term). Remember, he also told J1m D00p that God Almighty was all right with ORGIES-when they were in private. However, the CFS's few mentions made it sound like the only proper thing would be faithful marriage. Hypocrisy from wierwille? Yes, again, of course.

vpw had skill in manipulating people, and in preaching. He had experience in plagiarism, and in adultery, rape and molestation while covering his tracks. He lacked the capacity to actually CARE about people. He showed, repeatedly, that they were DISPOSABLE to him. lcm documented how someone had some sort of seizure on-grounds. vpw's decision as to how to address this? He told the person to pack up and move back home, and put them on a bus. When lcm was concerned, vpw said to forget about him, and he'd show up at home eventually. A WEEK LATER, he ended up home. God only knows what happened all that week. So long as people paid their tuition and/or fees, vpw didn't care about them in the corps or wows. They'd get it together, or he'd kick them out, the end. lcm learned to be equally callous. I knew someone on the wow field in the 1988-1989 year, returning 1989. While they were on the field, lcm kicked one of their roommates (as in, paying part of the rent) off the field immediately for failing to swear an oath to follow him BLINDLY. The other wows-his roommates- phoned and said this put them in a bad spot for the rent due RIGHT NOW. They'd work out the next month's rent, but since lcm was responsible for them suddenly being short, would he cover the difference? They were told it would be covered-and that was the last they heard of it. One of them contacted a twi'er who was also family, told them everything, and that person sent the difference (she was getting ready to send in her tithe- but she sent it to the wows to cover the rent.) They stayed at ROA 89 til they got their wow pins, then left for home the same night. The order of the day at twi was-and is- it's money that matters, and people are disposable.

I remember a few things about the way corps. A) What was it based on? vpw had no experience with the military (which he claimed to base it on), nor experience whatsoever with any programs of leadership training, whether national or local. His supposed understanding came from ideas gleaned from movies and television. Later, he added requirements that endangered people-which he never fulfilled (LEAD, hitch-hiking, etc.) He was like a Pharisee laying heavy burdens on people but not lifting a finger himself. The only thing where real professional training was given was not "counseling" or anything a normal Christian would prioritize. It was SALESMANSHIP. vpw had someone teach the Dale Carnegie sales course to the corps. He didn't pay their licensing fee as was required legally, but does this surprise anyone at this point? B) What was the screening based on? lcm himself recorded it- people could enter and stay in the program "as long as their money held." People paid quite a bit of money to be in the program-and spend lots of time doing manual labor for twi, paying twi for the privilege! It was quite a profit center for twi. C) People reported how they were told-in writing- that after graduating the program, they would have the OPTION to accept assignments from twi. Once they were on-grounds, they were then told that they'd signed up for a lifetime of service to twi, which was later revealed to mean "we own you for the rest of your life."