WordWolf

[i included your incorrectly-formatted quote because it's clear, when both are included, you refuted something that was never posted. It wasn't said that vpw was MENTIONED in teachings. You're using his FRAMEWORK entirely whether or not you're mentioning him each night. If you claim you're not crediting him silently while using his framework entirely, you might convince yourself but you won't convince us. You-and everyone there who learned in twi- have your group based on the construct you'd call "the Word VP taught." (I'd call it something less laudatory.) Those who arrived later, I would bet my life they've heard LOTS of claims about vpw from those who were earlier. It doesn't have to be right during a teaching or a sermon, it can be before or after during socializing, or even some other day when there's no session.] [it's about the damage vpw wrought, the lives destroyed, the minds damaged. And the systematizing of error he set up, which is still harming people in ways large and small. Some of them aren't even aware of the damage. Poor V2P2 has been set up so badly it will be DECADES before he can get free-if it ever happens during his lifetime. The harm people do can live on for years, decades, even centuries after their deaths.] [A lot of people who were never in the cadre (however one would term it) never were privy to the "lockbox" nor were told to cheat on wives. I was never told it-although many WERE told it. It's entirely possible you're correct that this is all nice talk going on. Then again, I've seen your posts here, and what you consider acceptable speech. At times, you seem unaware a line was crossed. It's entirely possible that what you think was just fine contained something other Christians might find objectionable- and by that I mean CONDUCT, not "how many were crucified" or the like. A more objective reporter of what goes on at your meetings would be more convincing.] [All those were taught by Christians before vpw came along. They may be minority opinions, but there's actually a lot of minority positions in Christianity. Sir Isaac Newton, Bible scholar, was never threatened with violence for his position against the Trinity a few centuries ago. I mentioned that position to another Christian, and his sole comment was "the original historical position of Christians." He was just a certain disciple, and it was old news to him, and hardly shocking. The "dead are dead" thing is called "soul sleep" because enough people believe in it that it needs a term so people know what you're talking about. Lots of Christians believe that. As for SIT, you're ignoring that even vpw said it was common enough that the event he attended (with the imaginary snowstorm) had lots of people who SIT'd and who BEGAN SIT'ing at that meeting. In fact, it was so expected that he'd become one, that (if he didn't invent that part) he was able to INTENTIONALLY DECEIVE them and PRETEND he was SIT'ing and just spoke some Greek. Both Leonard and Stiles were teaching this stuff all over the place before vpw stumbled across them both. If you weren't hiding from that, vpw's supposed "accomplishment" wouldn't sound nearly as impressive. He hid the names of others who did all the work from nearly everyone, along with their accomplishments. The goal was to get all the credit and separate us from other Christians. It's still working-some people STILL give him all the credit, and STILL separate themselves from other Christians. I give him all the credit he warrants for that. He may be dead, but his legacy still affects people who should be warned. Of course, as God says, once the alarm is sounded, it's up to the people to heed it or it's on them.] [God care deeply about people lying to his people, about people causing his people to stumble, about those who led his people to sin, about those who abuse the office of religious leader. That's a repetitive lesson all over the Bible. "It's God's Word or it isn't." You're completely missing the point. Whether any one statement of vpw is true or a lie is independent of whether or not it was plagiarized. We've said that for more than 10 years now. "Truth from the pen of a plagiarist is still truth." (Raf.) The actual issues are ones of CHARACTER. Someone goes out to deceive the brethren, then rape some of them, take their money for his vices, and set up a criminal cartel to cover his tracks. His plagiarism was his LURE and his COVER. People thought they were getting "God's Word" when they were being set up for being used. "If you're really the Son of God, jump off this roof. It is written, after all, that He will send His angels to protect you so you don't even bang your foot against a stone." Ever hear that evil ones can quote actual Scripture and use it for evil ends, to manipulate others and claim it's God's Will? It's been going on for millenia. It happened to us, and you think that's a non-issue. Well, I'm glad I don't have to answer for it. I was young and naive once. As to whether or not you're Christians, I'd have to consider that Jesus' sheep hear his voice, and that people of God actually care about things the way God does- approving what He approves of, and disapproving of what he DISapproves of. Me, I'm not prepared to prop up the reputation of someone who will face consequences severe enough that they'd be better off with cement galoshes and dropped in the ocean.] =============================================== [Why were some twi'ers, why are some extwi'ers attracted to nutty things? I think there's the appeal of SIMPLE ANSWERS. Someone hands over something simple and live is black-and-white and can fit on a bumper sticker. I can see the appeal of that. I can also see the appeal of embezzlement, but I'm not signing up for either one. I also think that people feel special if they think there's some secret they feel privy too. "You shall be like God, knowing good and evil" was tempting, in part, because of "knowing good and evil like God" sounded like some special knowledge when what was offered was actually nothing. Adam & Eve couldn't be offered to know good any better, so what was offered was actually knowledge of evil. But it was framed as "SPECIAL KNOWLEDGE." People are often vulnerable to it. It was tempting to some people to think that WE, as twi people, were SPECIAL in the Earth, UNIQUE among Christians, possessing the SPECIAL KNOWLEDGE and obviously superior to other Christians who were unworthy to be our peers. That arrogance was instilled into twi from the beginning and from its head. It took a lot of us years to rid ourselves of it. Some of us still wrestle with some of it. Some of us can't even begin to root it out.] [Pretty much. And they'd appreciate it if you stopped mentioning that because it's easier to ignore something when someone's not warning people about it every month.]

George, I seem to have misremembered the plot of this movie. It's different than what you posted, but they seem to share the same name...

Just to confirm, that was correct.

" Jack Black and Malcolm McDowell star in this movie. A guidance counselor mistakenly sends out the wrong transcripts to Stanford University under the name of an over-achieving high schooler who is a delinquent. The delinquent attends,and flunks out-ending up in jail. He volunteers for an experimental aversion therapy developed by the government to solve society's crime problem."

Like everyone else, my life has moved on since twi. (Especially lately.) I feel good about many posters who have moved on BECAUSE they've gone on with their lives. They're all GSC success stories! Those of us still posting all have lives as well, of course. I also hope that those still Christian, posting now or not, have found healthy Christians to interact with corporately to some degree, even online if necessary. (I hope all posters are moving on in healthy ways regardless of their belief systems, and that's probably true of almost all of them, past and present.) We post, hopefully, because we have something to say. Paw could always put the forums into an archive, read-only, mode if we all stopped having something to say. I'm hoping nobody's posting just to post, or to raise post-counts or something. I don't mind quieter days in between cycles. The threads with lots of posts and squabbling, were they really better than lulls in posting?

Ok, here's the next one. is jailed and volunteers for an experimental aversion therapy developed by the government in an effort to solve society's crime problem.. "A guidance counselor mistakenly sends out the wrong transcripts to Stanford University under the name of an over-achieving high schooler who is a delinquent. The delinquent attends,and flunks out-ending up in jail. He volunteers for an experimental aversion therapy developed by the government to solve society's crime problem."

There was a show called "Son of Thunder"? No kidding? I imagined there might be a movie somewhere with that name. When I take my wild swings, they really are wild swings.

Then it's an ACCIDENTAL insult, but an insult nonetheless. Here's one possible solution... You think we need an interesting thread or two? How about starting it yourself?

I think it made it into the EARLY 70s. I have a fuzzy impression of something.

*wild swing* "My 3 Sons of Thunder"?????

Posting goes in cycles as people live their lives. Since there's been no announcement that the GSC is closing, this was just a complaint there's been no interesting posts in the past few days. I have some threads planned, myself, but I have to fit them in to my own life. In a few months, I hope to have more time for me, and thus more time to post. (I might be able to post them earlier, we'll all see when we see.) I can't guarantee you'll find them interesting. I will, hopefully some people will.

I MIGHT have gotten it from the pies. Shows that aired in reruns into the late 70s or later, I might have a chance with those. It doesn't matter when they were filmed if they were still aired later.

I'm amused by how I hear the story broke. I heard he addressed a few cardinals in Latin during a mass. In the audience was a reporter who understood Latin who immediately started notifying people. Naturally, their first response was they must have misheard, but the Pope still had to deal with the story getting out days before he meant it to.

Which means it's hiway's turn.

Oops. Ok, let's see... "Every time that I look in the mirror"

If the wikipedia article is correct, I suspect the founders (at least 2 of the 5, maybe more) genuinely wanted to do good. I say that because they left when it looked like the results were bad, and warned others about that. So, they may have meant well and ended badly. vpw, on the other hand, never made any kind of repentance for his actions. (The closest he came was to say he wish he'd been a better man, which is INCREDIBLY vague and puts the emphasis on HIM rather than on those wronged or the organization that wronged them-beginning with himself.) I think they saw a problem and tried to SOLVE it. I think vpw saw a problem and tried to EXPLOIT it.

With healthcare in the past 100 years having improved dramatically for those of us in First World countries, it's no surprise we're getting lots of people living past 70. With lots of people living past 70, it's no surprise lots of them are doing useful things past 70. (Ronald Reagan was US President in his 70s, IIRC.) So, the idea Popes can live long enough to warrant retirement should not be a shock, and it doesn't have to have anything to do with him being a Pope. What DID surprise me was that he assumed the office at what, 76? That's awfully late to BEGIN a position of authority that's supposed to be "for life." THAT I found peculiar. But him living long enough to have sufficient health problems to make world travel impractical, that doesn't surprise me.

Oops. Yes, it is the first, George was right.

Real Genius William Atherton Ghostbusters

What are you derailing, John? Well, on page 1, post 18, you put the first non-topic post on, and the subject changed from "nuttiness" to your favorite topic, how vpw's depravity should be a non-issue. " I can't help but notice how much posters here attack VPs credibility down to the minutest detail."

It IS Zorro. I don't know shows that haven't aired before the 70s because-why would I? If they aired in reruns I can know them-and there's b & w TV like Flash Gordon I DID see. In the case of Disney's Zorro, someone else introduced me to it the other year. It's airing in other languages NOW outside the US.

Among others, Disney's done a series on this character. So did the Family Channel. And Sony, in association with Telemundo. And Filmation. And Warner Brothers. And the Japanese. And the Filipinos. Not counting a tv movie. Although not counting that might upset Frank Langella, Ricardo Montalban and Yvonne de Carlo.

"Pokemon" was named for the longer name "pocket monsters." There was no character called "Pokemon."

"We do not train to be merciful here. Mercy is for the weak. Here, in the streets, in competition. A man confronts you, he is the enemy. An enemy deserves no mercy what is the problem, Mr. Lawrence?" "Wax on, right hand. Wax off, left hand. Wax on, wax off. Breathe in through nose, out of mouth. Wax on, wax off. Don't forget to breathe, very important."

This was the first post. I don't think that anyone who's still attracted to nuttiness AFTER leaving twi should be allowed to derail it.