WordWolf

I can confirm that this moderator posts the truth- things he knows, or qualifies his statements if he is unsure. So, his ANSWER TO THE QUESTION YOU ASKED is confirmed. You can thank him for answering you now-complete with phone#. I'm WordWolf. That's how I think of myself and how I have since the early 1990s. That's the name a LOTof people have known me by for years, including good friends. My involvement was on the local level, with limited visits, and classes up to and including the AC, and I left in 1989 following ROA '89 when lcm orchestrated a week of "remain loyal to me and the ministry" speeches and demonstrations. Talk about myself? Ok. I'm a casual dresser. I like the Bible, wolves, and Christian females. I have a long memory and a thirst for truth even when it is UNPLEASANT truth. I'm great in bed. In fact, given enough time, I can sleep around the clock. I'm an avid science fiction reader and internet surfer. Is that enough or do you need something more biographical? Well, I didn't know her, I only knew Tom. He was NOT a suicidal man when he was on the field, but I am aware that being loyal to the company line and being at hq when loyalty was being crammed down everyone's throat made him VERY loyal, possibly to a fanatical, unsound level. Thus, the idea that he was placed in a cleft stick where the only sound answer was "the ministry leader is a very bad man, and the ministry is wrong" was unthinkable for a very loyal company man. Perhaps if someone close to him had not placed him in the bullseye of that situation, he wouldn't have faced such a lifecrushing (to him at the time) set of options. No, there don't "have to be." twi thrives on cutting off information and hiding in the shadows. You invited attitude. It would be rude not to accept it once it's reached your doorstep with the engraved invitation.

Then I recommend hiring a private detective for an hour's work. You get what you pay for. And that was a perfectly-civilized answer. Unlike your response. And that had NOTHING to do with the reply you got. According to you, the response to that should have been "thank you." You don't sound very thankful. That is OPINION, not fact. (Except you believing in her- I'll buy you believed in her without proof.) I STILL don't get why you're spooling all this information.You asked for information, and GOT information. Nobody ASKED for a biography or even WHY you wanted it. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't conduct yourself with what is considered AVERAGE manners on the internet, then you're a twit, I don't care who paid you to be a webmaster. You should ALREADY know how to conduct yourself online. If not, you should at LEAST know the rule "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Most Christians are familiar with this rule..... Behold! All the information someone needs, so long as they know how to use a telephone! Most people would say "thank you" at this point.

"I know. I'm fast. All my teachers said so. 'Fast, but lazy'." "As long as I can remember knowing you, you've had all the fun and most of the good women. "Lately." "Lately?" "That's what I said." "What are you talking about?" "Well, I seem to remember that girl in London. The red head. Healthy girl. " "Sooner or later, everyone comes to Joe's." "Just because I don't like to fight, doesn't mean that I can't." "I'm too old for this." "You won't let me change, you know that? You really expect me to steal." "I expect sharks to bite too. Don't take it personally." "You don't understand, I am the end of time!" "You're history." "Sometimes in life you have to do more than just watch." "Mac, I'm alive." "Just how old are you? Are you a Christian, or do you paint yourself blue and bay at the moon?" "You ever had it bad for an older woman?" "Well, the situation hasn't come up recently." "You try being her. You try living one year knowing that your time is running out. That no matter how much you train, no matter how many tricks you have, you STILL lose. That's the way it is for them. So little time for them to SEE anything or DO anything." "Did you really kill all those people?" "Yes, is that what you to hear? Killing was all I knew, is *that* what you want to hear?" "It's enough." "No, it is not enough. I killed, but I didn't just kill fifty, I didn't just kill a hundred. I killed thousands. I killed ten thousands. And I was good at it. And it wasn't for vengeance. It wasn't for greed. It was because I liked it. Cassandra was nothing, her village was nothing. Do you know who I was? *Death*! Death. Death on horse! When mothers warned their children that the monster would get them, that monster was me. I was the nightmare that kept them awake at night. Is that was you want to hear? Than the answer... is yes. Oh, yes."

"Ssssh!" "What was that?" "SSSSHHHH!" "Good plan." "I warned you not to eat on an empty stomach." "Oh! Frankenstein!" "Yeah, I used to go out with his sister." "His sister?" "Yeah, Phyllis." "A thing of beauty. DESTROY IT FOREVER!" "It's all in the mind." "Look, if you must shout, shout quietly!" "It's blue glass." "Must be from Kentucky, then." "Maybe time's gone on strike." "What for?" "Shorter hours." "I don't blame it. Must be very tiring being time, mustn't it?" "Why?" "Well, it's a twenty-four hour day, isn't it?" "It's quite uncanny, your faces..." "We're quite cute, really." "You could pass for the originals!" "Well, we are the originals." "As a matter of fact, there's a war on." "Then brothers in war, to the skirmish must we hence! Shall we hence?" "Oh, let's not waste any more time sitting on the hence! " "You're advancing the wrong way! Retreat backwards! " "And do you speak English?" "Old English, Middle, a dialect pure." "Well, do you speak English?" "You know I'm not sure." "He's so smart he doesn't even remember what he knows!" "Hey! There's a Cyclops!" "Can't be. It's got two eyes." "Must be a "bicycle-ops" then." "There's another one." "A whole "'cyclopedia"!" "f I could come in, here, I think the theory put forward by Einstein..." "Any old Ein, any old Ein, any-any-any old Ein..." "..could well be applied here. The people in the ball are obviously extensions of our own personalities, suspended, as it were, in time, frozen in space..." "Uh, John..." "...according to the now-famous theory of relativity..." "John..." "Which, briefly explained..." "John!" "Is simply a matter of taking two eggs..." "JOHN!" "...beating lightly, and adding a little salt and pepper to taste..." "Move over, I'm driving." "No, I got here first." "I'll drive if you like..." "No, you sit in the middle." "No, I'm sitting in the middle. "You said you were driving." "I am driving." "I'll get in the back, then." "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo! So little time! So much to know!" "Look, it's a school of whales." "They look a little bit old for school." "University then." "University of whales." "They look like drop-outs to me." "Hey, Jeremy, what do you know about holes?" "There are simply no holes in my education!" "You mean you haven't composed a "hole" book?"

"I know. I'm fast. All my teachers said so. 'Fast, but lazy'." "As long as I can remember knowing you, you've had all the fun and most of the good women. "Lately." "Lately?" "That's what I said." "What are you talking about?" "Well, I seem to remember that girl in London. The red head. Healthy girl. " "Sooner or later, everyone comes to Joe's." "Just because I don't like to fight, doesn't mean that I can't." "I'm too old for this." "You won't let me change, you know that? You really expect me to steal." "I expect sharks to bite too. Don't take it personally." "You don't understand, I am the end of time!" "You're history." "Sometimes in life you have to do more than just watch."

"Ssssh!" "What was that?" "SSSSHHHH!" "Good plan." "I warned you not to eat on an empty stomach." "Oh! Frankenstein!" "Yeah, I used to go out with his sister." "His sister?" "Yeah, Phyllis." "A thing of beauty. DESTROY IT FOREVER!" "It's all in the mind." "Look, if you must shout, shout quietly!" "It's blue glass." "Must be from Kentucky, then." "Maybe time's gone on strike." "What for?" "Shorter hours." "I don't blame it. Must be very tiring being time, mustn't it?" "Why?" "Well, it's a twenty-four hour day, isn't it?" "It's quite uncanny, your faces..." "We're quite cute, really." "You could pass for the originals!" "Well, we are the originals." "As a matter of fact, there's a war on. "Then brothers in war, to the skirmish must we hence! Shall we hence?" "Oh, let's not waste any more time sitting on the hence! " "You're advancing the wrong way! Retreat backwards! "

Correct, and correct! This still gets airplay on classic rock stations, so it's hardly obscure.... Your turn, waysider!

New show. "I know. I'm fast. All my teachers said so. 'Fast, but lazy'." "As long as I can remember knowing you, you've had all the fun and most of the good women. "Lately." "Lately?" "That's what I said." "What are you talking about?" "Well, I seem to remember that girl in London. The red head. Healthy girl. " "Sooner or later, everyone comes to Joe's."

"Ssssh!" "What was that?" "SSSSHHHH!" "Good plan." "I warned you not to eat on an empty stomach." "Oh! Frankenstein!" "Yeah, I used to go out with his sister." "His sister?" "Yeah, Phyllis." "A thing of beauty. DESTROY IT FOREVER!"

"Oh is there concrete all around, Or is it in my head?" "Oh man, I need tv when I've got T-Rex"

*checks* There's an Uncle Jesse and Aunt Becky in Full House, but not in Bernie Mac that I found.

"Ssssh!" "What was that?" "SSSSHHHH!" "Good plan." "I told you not to eat on an empty stomach."

Ok, now THAT's FULL HOUSE!

*wild swing* "Full House"?

Lots of people made a difference- LOCALLY. This never produced a change in the organization, because those holding the reins of power were dedicated to avoiding that kind of change. They wanted-and want still- to centralize money, power, and privilege. To the hands of a few-themselves. That means little or no money is available to go to the local believers, the local Christians. Ever see twi spend money on locals that aren't near hq? Oh, there were a handful of exceptions, but they were extremely rare. And they were either connected with locals twi wanted to impress, or a desire to make a local headline. Please note that-to this day- LOTS of people have actually said "I shall remain in twi, work hard, and I shall make a difference and change its direction." LOTS of people. Many of them post here, or HAVE posted here. Some of the kids IN twi NOW have said that. It's NEVER worked. It never worked when twi was young, nor any time after that. It will NEVER work. They MEAN well, but they're spitting in the wind. Those who run twi will take any measure necessary to hold on to the power, and suppress any reforms. Like they always have. =================== BTW, the thread "vp and me in wonderland" gives a look inside the way corps and vpw, just as "the way: living in wonderland" gives a look into twi's earlier years.

That's your opinion. My opinion? I don't think YOU really want to get the entire picture, just enough pretext to fashion an excuse to rationalize away the accounts of the victims, and the complete picture that emerges when EVERYONE's testimony has been taken into account, pro-, con-, and neutral. Saying the picture is incomplete because vpw can't be questioned is silly. We know what he'd say. He'd deny everything all the way down the line, and switch lies when one lie is caught. After all, that's what he always did. For example, vpw made up an imaginary blizzard that supposedly kept him from leaving a hotel where a conference was held, which led him to meet JE Stiles, whom he claim God told to show up at the convention just to minister to ONE MAN (suggesting it was vpw.) Naturally, since Stiles is dead, we can't ask him if God told him that. Anyway, this blizzard dressed up his story and made it miraculous. According to him, it blanketed the city, and all planes, busses and trains were STOPPED. Someone did some checking. They found the precise dates of the conference. There wasn't even a flake of snow falling from the sky when vpw claimed there was a blizzard. And the city wasn't hit with anything shutting the city down at all that month. So, they went to vpw and asked him about it, citing what they found. Without any uncertainty or surprise, without the natural response of "You must have the wrong dates-I was THERE and there was SNOW and SNOW!", he immediately replied that it must have been an angel that got on the phone and lied to him, telling him there were no vehicles leaving town, and this was the first time, and that a blizzard was clearly visible all outside the hotel, which apparently was a miraculous mirage. vpw never had a twinge of conscience lying about little things, or big things. We know EXACTLY what vpw would say. He'd deny everything categorically, and claim everyone else was delusional, lying, or both. Any decent investigator of any type could tell you that finding the truth of a matter is independent of what any one person CLAIMS is the truth. Look to the bulk of the eyewitnesses. Look to the physical evidence. Look for the complete picture they paint. And look over the exceptions, and figure out why they contradict- whether by error, lie, or interpretational misunderstanding. If your conscience insists that inability to question vpw is enough of a reason to suppose that hundreds of strangers all came forth and said the same thing, that even INSIDERS confessed knowing or participating, that twi's response to a paper saying "adultery is wrong" is to fire the man who wrote it, ostracize him, and to claim that HE is possessed and anyone who reads his PAPER will GET possessed, which, BTW, is vpw's old modus operandi when silencing someone, and to suppose that ALL of them got together and fabricate a lie with complete strangers, well, I leave that to your conscience. For the vast majority of people- especially those who aren't battling some idyllic shangri-la image of vpw, hq and twi in general- it is NOT difficult to see that the hundreds of people told the truth, and the one guy did not.

Some of us think the truth matters. It's been noted that some people who go out of their way to defend vpw-and claim "he's been dead 20 years" as an excuse are often the first people to criticize some denominations for actions taken centuries ago. When one blames ONE for wrongs but not the OTHER- and claims the more RECENT one is too old to matter- well, that's neither fair nor intellectually honest. You have noted there were problems in your own denomination that you left years ago. I won't question that. If there were problems, they should be-or should have been- addressed. Ignoring them doesn't make them disappear. Neither does ignoring evil actions by vpw make his own evil deeds disappear. Try that one on the people who were his firsthand victims and see how far you get. Of course, you can't do that with ALL his victims- some people died as a result of his actions, one way or another. But hey, they died over 20 years ago, so why does it matter? All water under the bridge, right?

Both. Why do the usual suspects get special treatment? The options for removing him from office allowed for forgiveness once removing him. I didn't have infinite space on each option. So far, nobody's actually come forth-even with the anoymity of a poll- and said "leave them in office." Looks like rhetoric looks holy, but when it comes down to the practical aspects, very few would actually leave them in office once it's known a leader's incompetent.

Here's what I have to say about Harry's Scar.... Here's what we KNOW about Harry's Scar... JKR said its shape is not what's important about it. (Which means it is important.) It's allowed Harry to read Voldy's mind, and Voldy to read Harry's mind. It's allowed Voldy to invent things and project them to Harry. ("He's got Padfoot in the place where it's hidden!") Presumably, it's also the specific means that was used to allow Harry to possess Nagini while Voldy was doing the same (Book 5, the attack on Arthur Weasley), and the means for Voldy to possess Harry (Book 5, the duel with Dumbledore, "The Only One He Ever Feared." Of course, Voldy possessed Nagini because SHE is a Horcrux. What is the specific connection for Harry? As evidence, I cite Book 6's warnings of all sorts of threats, including the Imperius Curse- but there's NO mention of POSSESSION. Therefore, the MoM does not expect that possession is a credible threat to the public-they expect it can't be done. We know-from Book 2's denoument-that Voldy put "part of himself" in Harry, as confirmed by DD. I'm still waiting for an explanation as to how that works. So far, in 6 books, there's only one mechanism explained to do exactly that, and it was done to Nagini. We also know that Trelawney predicted Harry's birth as being in MIDWINTER, when he was born at the end of July (as the seventh month dies.) It's easy to just laugh that off and say Trelawney's incompetent, but the truth is, she's often got SOME ability, but MISINTERPRETS what she sees. (Black dog was Sirius, not The Grim, and she "saw" Harry hiding from her in Book 6 but discounted it. And she saw disaster for Hogwarts in Book 6-which was confirmed by the chapter name, named after the card she saw.) Was her prediction of Harry's birth just a wild guess? Possible, but then it's a coincidence that she picked VOLDY's birth (during a snowstorm). We know (from Book 6 and other places) that Voldy had stopped using the name "Riddle" for some time, and only DD and possibly a few old acquaintances still called him that-if they dared to name him at all. However, in Book 2, Harry RECOGNIZES his name, as if he'd known him when he was smaller. Coincidence? So far, I've yet to hear any OTHER answer that explains what we know, and what we can reasonably deduce, if not everything, OTHER THAN "Horcrux." People have speculated there is some other method to transfer part of one's soul to another, that is completely unrelated to a Horcrux. So far, there's nothing to support that in the books, making this a guess at best. Here's exactly what I think happened that night at Godric's Hollow... Voldy and Wormtail arrive at the house. Wormtail stays outside. Voldy-alone or with an assistant- enter the house and begin shooting it up. James Potter tells Lily to escape with Harry, and gives his OWN life to delay Voldy. (JKR's suggested this sacrifice carried NO mystical implications, unlike Lily's sacrifice.) Voldy killed James, and went straight for Harry, his wand in one hand, and an item in the other, the potential Horcrux he intended to finish any moment, but currently just an item. Lily refused to step aside. Either automatically through her sacrifice, or through the application of Love magic (studied in the Dept of Mysteries, and I am making the complete guess she worked on that), she used her love and her sacrifice to protect Harry. Lily falls dead. Voldy advances on baby Harry, his wand in one hand, his item in the other hand. Voldy points the wand at Harry's forehead. Voldy, with practiced ease, begins pushing on his own soul so that he can make the Horcrux more easily at the moment he wounds his soul. Voldy says "Avada Kedavra!", pushing at his soul, while trying to kill Harry. At the moment the AK hits The Scar, the AK REBOUNDS. There's a moment where the AK connects Harry and Voldy. Voldy's struck by his own AK. Due to his own low percentage of soul left- plus the presence of his PREVIOUS Horcruxes- it is unable to extinguish his soul in that instant. Instead, it reacts as if he's inanimate, and just blows up his body, leaving his soul (what's left of it) "intact." If nothing else happened, this would just make "Vapormort". However, the connection meant something else happened. Voldy was TRYING to make a Horcrux at that instant. Voldy was connected to Harry. The transfer of a piece of his soul was complete. Voldy was only connected to Harry's body. A soul needs a body to be connected to. Voldy's was now gone. Therefore, the soul-shard is "conducted" to the only soul in taction with the now-appearing Vapormort. Voldy was TRYING to make a transfer at that moment- and he succeeded- but failed to make the INTENDED target a Horcrux. Instead, the SCAR became one. Ok, so some people offer "arguments" against this. I'll address them here again. 1) "You can't make a Horcrux by accident!" Voldy was TRYING to make one at the time. We all know that, I think. DD seemed clear about it. 2) "Making a Horcrux involves a complicated ritual and spells!" Pure supposition. The closest thing we have to an answer was Slughorn's comment. "There is a spell, don't ask me, I DO NOT KNOW!" So, we know Slughorn doesnt really know-or didn't provide any details. (I lean towards the first.) We suppose he was correct that "there is a spell." We know Voldy used the Avada Kedavra to make Horcruxes. Pending further information, I see no reason to suppose the AK is not the spell Slughorn meant. So, I say the only spell we KNOW is used is the AK, and it's not unreasonable-pending more information-to suppose it's the ONLY one. 3) "Voldemort would never have tried to kill Harry if he knew Harry (or his scar or his appendix) was one of his Horcruxes!" SURE he would. Voldy fears death more than anything. He MUST kill Harry Potter to survive. He made Horcruxes-6- to survive. He would destroy 4 Horcruxes-leaving 2- to ensure his victory by killing Harry. (If Harry's scar is not a Horcrux, and Harry was holding one of them in each hand and one in his pocket, Voldy would destroy him-even if it meant destroying the Horcruxes. That's simple chess-you sacrifice what you can afford to succeed in what you NEED. We saw that at the end of Book 1's chess match. 4) "There was no death involved! A death HAD to take place to make a Horcrux!" There was indeed a death. VOLDEMORT died. Sounds ridiculous? I've seen this SPECIFIC gambit used in other stories- how the caster needs an injury or a death in payment or to fuel a spell, and his OWN injury or death is used. In all honesty, I saved that for last, since it's the only part that I honestly consider SPECULATION. My theory fits all the facts as known to the end of Book 6. One last thing: (yeah, me and Columbo...) In Book 6, either this is true, or Dumbledore made a very elementary mistake. DD explained that Voldy intended to make a Horcrux with Harry's death, and that Voldy has completed his set before Book 4, and possibly, before Godric's Hollow. (iwith Nagini as #6, which explains why he needs her to come back- "It's time to milk Nagini again".) Dumbledore knows EXACTLY how many Horcruxes there are: 6. DD says Voldy intented to make "his final" Horcrux with Harry's death. DD says something VERY interesting. DD, therefore, expected only ONE Horcrux to be left- made at Godric's Hollow that night. Knowing this, DD said that he thought Voldy was "AT LEAST ONE SHORT OF HIS TOTAL OF SIX" at Godric's Hollow. Why can't he count all of a sudden? 6-1=5. Voldy would be "EXACTLY SHORT OF HIS TOTAL OF SIX". But the author has left it unclear if there was 4 or 5 completed. Why? Nagini plus one more makes for "at least one." That would mean that the author allowed for one to be made at Godric's Hollow, not counting Nagini. That was a DELIBERATE note by JKR. What other reasons does anyone see for this "mistake"? If Harry's SCAR is a Horcrux, then DD was correct, and JKR set the stage for it. If it's not, then DD made an easily-correctible mistake. (JKR can count to 6.) So, that's what I have to say on the subject. For me, this seems pretty open-and-shut, "beyond a reasonable doubt." We'll know for sure in July.

Our intentions? Most of us, very good. We wanted to learn about God, and to serve God. That's from the corps thru the wows, coordinators, Advanced Class grads, and everyone who ever took "the class". Did that change the nature of twi? It changed the nature of our interactions on a PERSONAL level. We tried to bless people. Often we succeeded. We didn't affect twi as an organization. (Otherwise, the originals, the hippies who were hijacked, would have transformed the entire group. They succeeded on LOCAL levels, but were unable to affect the core of twi because vpw controlled that with an iron grip.) What about the corps? I have to hand it to many Christians who entered the corps out of a desire to serve God, who managed to retain all that after leaving the corps. Many of them did. That doesn't mean the corps was designed for that, no matter WHAT its press releases said. What was it designed for? First of all, it was designed to MAKE MONEY. corps students were required to pay tuition, and expenses were slashed to the bone. They ate disgusting cheap food, and not enough of that, sometimes. Emergency medical contingencies? VIRTUALLY NONEXISTENT. People could have seizures or other attacks-and did, more than once. And NO plans were set up to cover those, not even after the first time. Stricken students weren't sent to a doctor, they were sent HOME. (lcm admitted that in "vp and me.") Living facilities? They were dormed in rooms smaller than any college student ever sees. You can forget any thoughts of "creature comforts" in the corps. So, money came in, and whenever a dollar was spent, vpw left fingerprints on it, so tightly was it held. (Didn't let that stop him from getting a bunch of motorcycles and cars, and an AIRPLANE, however. The financial priorities showed where his own priorities were.) Second, the education? The University of Life had all the information the corps had. And vpw himself complained that the corps had intended to STUDY when there rather than perform manual labour. (pg-234, "The Way Living in Love", "...another young man who had the class in the army, came here that summer in 1969. He stayed here two years. Like so many of these young people, he'd rather read than work. He learned the Word, and he learned to work and study here." Please note that he considered the army as insufficient in teaching manual labor. At least to the amount he considered sufficient. And he was complaining about corps who wanted to "read" instead of "work.") The corps performed manual labour- a LOT of manual labour. (As did Way Builders.) And they PAID FOR THE PRIVILEGE. And they set up the ROA every year. Free. After travelling there on their own dime. And didn't get thank-yous- vpw CRITICIZED them for not working MORE. (Again, check "vp and me.") One year of the corps was all the classes that twi ran. Only now you're on-grounds, paying tuition and working on-grounds. You didn't need to go to the corps for that, or even "the college division", which did that in a year. Before those classes were completed, naturally, they weren't run. I don't know what was covered then. Except lcm led people on a lot of runs, even as a student. One year of the corps was a wow year. If you'd already gone wow, now you went AGAIN, and AGAIN you paid for the privilege. (wows paid $200 for the privilege of going wow, since twi didn't pay to locate them nor set them up on-location.) corps, of course, still had tuition at this time. So, the corps was a PROFIT-MAKING venture, where more money came in than was spent. The only formal instruction that was introduced to the corps, that was NOT the classes that you don't need to go into the corps for, was the Dale Carnegie stuff. The corps' formal instruction was in SALES. When you're training people to SELL, what do you expect them to do? Corps were expected to go places without question, learned to perform manual labour on grounds, were occasionally lent out to farmers to pick their crops, and to hitchhike and climb mountains. Did they achieve some benefit there? I imagine they learned from each of those, but what's the primary purposes accomplished? The manual labour and farming was quite beneficial to those managing the grounds and the farms. The hitchhiking saved a LOT of money, although it meant some students were hit by cars, and some were raped. vpw himself blew off complaints about rape risks, and I have him ON TAPE blowing them off. The climbing stuff was cheap, since nobody has to rent the mountain. And I STILL say the methods of transport- hitchhiking, and travel in the backs of truck-trailers- was unconscionably dangerous, and I'm thankful to God MORE of them didn't die than actually did die. (But, you know, even an old school bus would have cost money.....) ======== Is it beneficial for God to have people to want to serve him and drop everything? I would say so. Did many good Christians exit this program? Yes, but I believe the program had little to do with that-they were good Christians when they went in. Was THIS an efficient vehicle to serve God? We were TOLD it was so, we were SOLD it was so. I do not believe it WAS so. I believe it brought in money, gave vpw a base of people trained to obey him without question, and a trained sales-force to push classes- which brought in money from the required pfal entrance fee, not to even mention the tithes brought in if the people stay.

Jean, apparently, is Mrs Johniam. I can't speak to her experience, but Johniam has had some good experiences in twi. So have I. Johniam has heard that while he was having some good experiences in twi, some others-mostly women- were having horrific times. So have I. Johniam has addressed this discrepancy by concluding that those other experiences tarnish his memories of twi and impede his sense of nostalgia and "the good old days". So have I. Johniam's response has been to try to get those other experiences silenced, and excuse vpw and others for committing evil acts, to assuage the guilt they incurred when committing crimes and evil acts against the brethren, for whom Christ died. That's different from my response. I prefer the whole story be told. I can face having had good experiences in twi while simultaneously acknowledging that vpw was a dishonest rapist who constructed his image in great detail to inculcate respect, reverence and obedience, and used that to enjoy privilege, feed vices, and rape women, and constructed a framework that allowed him to get away with raping women. Does all that invalidate my experiences? It does not. The many evils he performed don't erase what good I received. However, the good I received does not affect the evil that others received, and in some cases was-and is- used as a cloak to hide or excuse that evil. It's something to consider- for most of us. It's something to remember- for most of us. It's something to be ashamed of- for the few of us who performed those actions, facilitating rapes. It's something to flee- for those of us who can't face the WHOLE truth.

"Oh is there concrete all around, Or is it in my head?"

"Ssssh!" "What was that?" "SSSSHHHH!" "Good plan."

Hello. This thread will probably be moved to the DOCTRINAL forum, because that's where we discuss DOCTRINE. In fact, there's already some older threads on this subject there already. Here's a link to one. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=8105 BTW, here's some advice for new arrivals here... http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=7913