WordWolf

I think all 3 options were at least partially true, all at the same time. Remember, when he was dying, he wondered aloud what he had done that his believing wasn't saving his life. I think he had convinced himself it should have AND that he'd never sinned.

It was true before, AND it's true NOW. Take a look at what little you can access from current members on their twi-only forums. They STILL teach they are the ONLY ones with the truth, and if people leave twi, they leave the truth. I'm unsure how many of them still say what some leaders said back in the 90s to people leaving, about horrible accidents befalling family members of people who leave, and asking them which family members they want to be the next to die. So, they were the sole carriers of The Truth, still are, and leaving was (and may still be) punished by injuries and/or death. We have audiofiles if you've conveniently forgotten this one. Didn't get caught, he didn't plagiarize it.Old policy in wayworld- you didn't see it, it didn't happen. (Some posters STILL say this.) EVERYBODY could recite the 1942 Promise- that vpw was told supposedly by God Almighty. However, two sentences buried in the middle of a book that SOME of the twi people owned and fewer READ is hardly the equal to this. The actual books he plagiarized claim-his own words- that he threw out all the works of others. This was a total lie, since the entire contents WERE from others. We discussed this, and exact quotes were provided. I suppose when he says something that doesn't fit with your theories it means nothing to you. Just ignore the parts that don't fit. Even if it's in the introduction to the Orange Book or the White Book. Nice try snowing the new arrivals, though. They missed previous discussions and entire threads like this: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ources&st=0 "vpw on the sources of his books."

I've never, not once, come across an ad where Mc Donalds claimed the ONLY place to get a hamburger, nor that they claimed to have invented them, or are the only place to make them since they were invented centuries ago in Hamburg. TWI STILL teaches they are the ONLY ones with the truth, and vpw quite boldly declared that the material he took from other Christians-Leonard, Bullinger, Stiles, Kenyon- and assembled into a class without adding to it- was the sole source of information, given by God Himself, and not taught since the first century Christians. Forget already? He claimed God told him that He would teach vpw God's Word like it hadn't been taught since the First Century, if vpw would teach it to others. He compiled the material in 1953 and years following, and began making the claim in the early 1970s.

A brief look at vpw and I Timothy 3:2ff. "The overseer must be above reproach". As has been pointed out, this means that-although people can make an accusation- the accusations must not be TRUE. vpw committed many criminal acts during "his ministry", and many acts not criminal but blatantly unChristian, and covered his tracks on both. (Unless you count "misuse of authority and neglect of fiduciary responsibility", which I believe are covered in the criminal laws/courts of the US.) To this day, many accusations on vpw have been exposed, and have been true. (Eyewitnesses and victims have come forward independently of each other.) "the husband of one wife". How much of a "husband" was he to her? Given his repeated rapes, druggings then rapes, and molestations of carefully-chosen, trusting females over the years, I'd call his responsibilities as a husband a failure- and that's only addressing one level of it. "temperate" Don't make me laugh. The man could go into a screaming fit whenever things weren't EXACTLY the way he wanted them. He threw people out of the corps for not taking notes when he was talking. lcm documented plenty of examples of what vpw was like when the cameras were NOT rolling in his book "vp and me." "self-controlled" Skipping his violent tirades, he chain-smoked and was an alcoholic as long as people knew him-and he had access to excellent healthcare, and still DIED as a result of addictions to alcohol and tobacco. Meanwhile- he told the corps not to smoke or drink at various times. "respectable, hospitable" Need I flog the dead horse any further? "able to teach" Ok. He could teach. Bravo. That's one quality where he's finally the equal of my kindergarten teacher- who WAS temperate and self-controlled. "not given to drunkenness" vpw was either OFTEN smashed or USUALLY smashed. Some people have commented on meeting him when he had killer alcohol breath. Others on being told to by SEVERAL bottles of Drambuie when told he was coming for a SHORT visit. (We all know it was Drambuie. Amazing how often this came up.) The man drank more in most WEEKS than I drink in a YEAR. He always had mints handy when he was teaching, and setup crews had directions on their setup. They cover alcoholic breath nicely, sometimes. He often sat a "coffee" cup next to him when on the pulpit. I wonder what the percentages were of coffee in that cup- setup crews knew it wasn't 100%.... Some of his behaviour has been "excused" on the basis of his being a compulsive drunk at the time- as if being a drunk alcoholic raving about was ok for a Christian leader. "not violent but gentle" I refer you back to the screaming tirades staff and corps got to see, on little or no pretext. "not quarrelsome" I'm skipping the dead horse again-but posters here have given examples when vpw had to be stopped from throwing the first punch in a FISTFIGHT when meeting Christian nonmember relatives of twi members. "not a lover of money". Need I address this one at all? Ask me and I will, but I think EVERYBODY here's seen enough diatribes on the subject.

They could "strain a gnat and swallow a camel" better than just about ANYBODY... Maybe THAT's the one thing that was hidden for 20 centuries before vpw revived it.

Hiway29 on why nametags became holy badges in twi... "No matter how much you were TOLD you were 'more than a conqueror' in twig, the REALITY was intense judgement and pressure to do more for God, and to have EVERY IMPERFECTION pointed out as if you were an AFFRONT to God and the Ministry."

Sorry. You need to read up. You do not know where most of the credit is due. I shall clarify. Incorrect.Leonard knew it FIRST. And taught it FIRST. And taught it to vpw. And 3 months later, vpw began "his" new class, which was 100% Leonard's class. vpw called Leonard's class with vpw's name "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today." (Later iterations of it added Stiles and Bullinger to Leonard's class with vpw's name on it.) "vpw"s class had a textbook called "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today." It was Stiles' book with vpw's name on it. (Later iterations of it added Bullinger to Stiles' book with vpw's name on it.) The first version of both was 1953. Incorrect. Leonard taught it all first, as did Stiles. vpw added Bullinger to Leonard's class and Stiles' book. A handful of verses, hardly revolutionary. We owe more to Kenyon's stuff which vpwtaught minus Kenyon's name than we do to Lamsa- entire chapters of the "Studies In Abundant Living" came straight from Kenyon. But he did get "I don't have to back up my teachings" and "I have a special connection to God" from Lamsa. Correct on figures of speech, number in scripture, basic keys to understanding the Bible, and witness of the stars ALL being STRAIGHT out of Bullinger. If you take Leonard's class, Stiles' book, and add Bullinger's books on the Holy Spirit to Stiles' book, and Bullinger's book "How to Enjoy the Bible" to Leonard's class, you get the pfal class, minus a few minor tweaks from books to class or class to books, and minus the Kenyon additions to the Studies in Abundant Living. The Red Thread is an Oral Roberts thing, IIRC. vpw didn't add the practical to Bullinger. vpw started with Leonard's class-which is MORE practical than vpw's class even to this very day. vpw took Leonard's class and added Bullinger TO that class. Here, it's only because vpw and other HID what is plain-and we want it plain again. We actually agree on that-and how the important stuff on God is NOT esoteric and hidden.

I came across a post a while back where someone said the "historian" had a lot of trouble doing a tour of the "historical center" after doing some digging. The implication was that she put all the pieces together about this. No idea who the historian was.

Correct! The most recent cover of this song was by Smash Mouth. It appeared on "Astro Lounge" along with "All-Star" (off of "Mystery Men") and was itself off of the movie "Can't Hardly Wait". It's easier to remember when you see Jennifer Love Hewitt clowning around in the video. The original release of the song was in the late 60s by Question Mark and the Mysterians. Their hit "96 Tears" had just put them in the spotlight, and their very trademark keyboard-work makes it easy to recognize the artist for one based on the riffs of the other. Do you know the record company tried to convince this artist to change the title to "Romeo in Black Jeans?" I can't figure out the reason- it's a knot I have yet to untie. But I'll let someone else take first crack at the song.

First of all, as of 1986, there IS no Earth-S. Everything's on a unified earth. Second, I was introduced to Kid Eternity and Mr Keeper back when there was the Shazam! tv show, and the comic started touring in a winnebago to match it. Whatever his history was BEFORE that, I wasn't there. Third, last I personally saw him, Mordru had punched his ticket and I figured we'd never see him again. Fourth, last I heard, he's just been moved to VERTIGO, which is the one independent line of hard-to-explain comics and stuff like that. I forget if he was just "traded" back for Boston Brand-"Deadman"- or if that was someone else.

"Whenever we kiss, I get a feeling like this, I get to wishing that there were two of you My heart cries out, 'More, baby', It feels so nice, I want your arms to wrap around me twice" "When you had to go, I hated the thought I always wish the night was twice as long. My heart cries out, 'More, baby'. I love you so much, I wish that there was more of you to touch" =========== Hm. At this rate, I might have to switch to a different song by the same artist- but I'm sure someone here somewhere knows this song.

Kid Eternity was on Earth-S along with Captain Marvel and "the Shazam Squadron of Justice". The Ray and the Black Condor-along with the rest of the Freedom Fighters- travelled TO Earth-X to fight the good fight on an earth where the Axis won World War II. Here was a quick Earth breakdown: Earth 1: Justice League of America, Silver Age Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman. Earth 2: Justice Society of America, Golden Age Green Lantern, Flash. Earth 3: Crime Syndicate of America, sole hero was Alex Luthor (bald with beard). His son was Alexander Luthor, who was important in the CoIE. Earth 4: (Never numbered in a comic): Charlton Comics heroes: Captain Atom, Blue Beetle, the Question, Judomaster. Earth S: Captain Marvel, the wizard Shazam, the Marvel Family, Ibis the Invincible, Bulletman. Earth-X: Quality heroes-Uncle Sam, DollMan, Human Bomb, the Ray, Black Condor. Earth-Prime: superheroes exist in comics only. Ultraa left it for Earth-1, and the Earth-Prime Superboy started just before CoIE and escaped it to join the fight. ==== Crisis on Infinite Earths: 1985. Merged the 5 surviving Earths into 1: 1,2,4,S,X. First company-wide crossover. Zero Hour:Crisis in Time: 1995. Realigned the timestream after CoIE. Parallax (Hal Jordan) attempts to rewrite history. Infinite Crisis: 2005. A disjointed melange of characters beating the hell out of each other for no clear reason. Dragged Superman of Earth 2, and Lois Lane Earth 2 out of heaven so they could be killed off. Dragged Superboy-Prime and Alexander Luthor out of heaven so they could be made into villains. Alexander is currently dead, S-Prime is currently very insane and imprisoned. Arbitrary retcons (rewrites of status quo, "retroactive continuity") of every kind are introduced, all with the same POS explanation. Do not read under any circumstances. When you mentioned the Shining Knight, you left out his WINGED HORSE, named VICTORY. You named everyone else in the picture.

vpw was always an expert on anything he wanted to expound upon... ..and if following his advice messed you up, then it was your fault for "insufficient believing."

Sometimes the comics include little moments like that, too. There was an incident with a series of disasters, where Lex Luthor was in his office trying to find out what was going on. One of the secretaries giving him an update was Ms Teshmacher, and one of the towns hit by an earthquake was Otisburg. (Me, I loved the 'Otisburg' reference.) A different comic showed Dick Grayson recounting a story to Batman about trying to dispose of a bomb when he didn't have his tools on him. "You said it yourself-there are some days you just can't get rid of a bomb." That was a reference to a VERY well-remembered scene from the 60s Batman movie that was in the theaters-with Adam West and Burt Ward. YOU LEFT OUT "VICTORY!" BTW, the "60s" versions are usually called "the Golden Age" whoevers, or-if you're old-school- the Earth-2 whoevers. (No longer applicable since 1985's Crisis on Infinite Earths.) I'm not sure they were actually active into the 1960s in real time, but in comics time they had retired following an investigation by the House Unamerican Activities Committee in the 50s.

More likely, it was because the book went OUT OF PRINT. It was still for sale in the bookstore in the 80s, but around 1990 it became impossible to find. Someone lent me a hand and gave me a copy they got when buying a cache of out-of-print books. I never encountered the specific things mentioned in the book. However, without attempting to outline a precise nuts-and-bolts approach, the author gave enough information for a careful reader to do so based on the book- and THAT information was consistent with what I DID experience. That is, the difference between "miraculous" effects versus "spiritualist" effects, and so on, both in execution and in long-term side-effects. vpw lacked understanding of all that, but he was correct when he mentioned the importance of free will.

The impression I get is that-if you read the whole book- you come away thinking virtually all medication is unnecessary, but comments like this show a distinction between OVERmedicating and proper dosage. I'm not sure Adams wasn't "hedging his bets" and basically allowing for people to claim he said both at once. For situations NOT the result of a chemical imbalance, or requiring a chemical rebalancing, I think this was quite a handy book. For true psychiatric (medical) problems, however, the smart thing for the reader of this book to do is to not interfere.

Perhaps you're thinking of one of its covers. The original was getting airplay before I was born! "My heart cries out, 'More, baby', It feels so nice, I want your arms to wrap around me twice" "Whenever we kiss, I get a feeling like this, I get to wishing that there were two of you" "I only wish the night was twice as long" The keyboard work on the original would ring a bell, if I could play it.

Plus it might have relevance here, where "the Hero With a Thousand Faces" has little, if any, relevance here.

It's been quite a while. I have a dim impression that Adams thought there were no such thing as true psychatric disorders that require medication or institutionalization. Is that correct that he said that?

"It feels so nice, I want your arms to wrap around me twice" "I get to wishing that there were two of you" "I only wish the night was twice as long"

"I get to wishing that there were two of you" "I only wish the night was twice as long"

Unless you've corrected it so that it NOW links right, the link BEGINS LOADING at the top of the page, and is completed pointing EXACTLY at Galen's post. So, just wait a second.

When I was a little kid, we had a record player with a lot of different speeds. One of the fun things was taking 33 1/3 rpm records and playing them at 45 rpm and listening to the voices at chipmunk speeds. Another was playing an Alvin and the Chipmunks record at a slower speed (I think we had the slowest speed of 12 rpm) and hearing what the singers' voices sounded like. Except David Saville, who now sounded odd. Meanwhile, we DO have another song on the table...

Was there a textbook for that class, and, if so, was it Jay Adams' "Competent to Counsel"? A corps person once recommended it to me as a good read on the subject. (Interestingly enough, it's not exactly limited to twi people in terms of who owns a copy.)

Hm. I MUST be the only "old-school" AD&D player or DM checking in lately. This was obviously wrong to the old-schoolers because the system of feudalism's lowest rung was not the SLAVE, it was the SERF. (They did not go "serfing", however. No decent waves over there.) A serf's lot wasn't THAT different from a slave, but a serf was BELIEVED TO OWN HIMSELF. He may have been required-SOME of the time- to work his lord's farmland, and desperate times may have been given a weapon and sent to war (if the lord called for the "fyrd", the LEAST useful military force), but he was also entitled to protection from bandits and other lords, and most of his time was his own. If he didn't want to tend his OWN crops today, he didn't HAVE to. Also, serfs ate decent meals. If a lord wanted his work done, he needed his serfs to eat nutritious meals, or they'd have no energy to do the work. (They ate better, according to reports, than the average attendee of the way corps. vpw was not as good a student as he claimed- at least his European history was lacking.) If this was NOT true of a lord, and he MIStreated his serfs, they could just sneak off and try the next lord. (They had the LEGAL right to leave, but the current lord often "forgot" that when he saw fleeing serfs.) Anyway, except when working FOR the lord, a serf's time was his own. He could relax, practice a trade-presuming he KNOWS a trade- farm his own land, etc. Yes, the "etc" includes what you're thinking. He did not need a permit from his lord for...thingy. (If he did, it sure would have made audits a lot more interesting.)