WordWolf

Man, I LOVE that story, Oakspear. It just hit my funnybone straight-on. :)-->

Sorry, my sarcasm-detector was napping. :)-->

Year 2027 just asked for stories like this...

Uh, this IS on-topic. This is a discussion of doctrines we were exposed to in twi, and told to believe, and their lasting effects on us, or lack thereof. In this case, the fact that the material was stolen from other people is irrelevant to the main body of that discussion. We're discussing what we are currently doing with what twi taught, NOT where twi got it.

*thinks a moment* Zixar, thanks for reminding me. Must have been something else, like sodium or potassium. Magnesium goes up if LIT, and phosphorus goes up in oxygen, correct? He was dropping a chunk of SOMETHING, we know that. Dot, actually, last I heard, he was no longer teaching, especially freshmen intro, but for other reasons I don't feel like getting into at the moment.

A LOT of the really important things of God are NOT matters involving study of some new Greek word or something- they're "heart" matters that can't be learned in a class. Kit, you trashed your copy of "Babylon Mystery Religion." Did you ever get "the Babylon Connection", also by Woodrow? Basically, it corrects the mistakes of the previous book, and repudiates it.

It's amazing how quickly people will fire off blanket statements to cover just about any situation. One non-twi (nbw) group will ask people-to their face-how long since they left the organization by asking them "How long since you left The Truth?" No group I was ever in, but that's good for them-no response of mine would have been especially appreciated.

None of my stories are from twi. In fact, the stupidest things tended to just barely miss me. One teacher in high school NEVER, EVER wore a tie. I didn't think much of it, until I found out why, from a upper-classman. The year before I arrived, he had sat in the same teacher's class. Now, each science class had a bunsen burner safety lab. We wasted the first lab of each just to say "don't set stuff on fire." You sat thru the lab twice in freshman year (intro bio, intro physics), once each in sophmore, junior and senior years (usually, in order, bio, chem and physics.) This was a physics class full of juniors and seniors. He's teaching the safety lecture, they're finishing his sentences since they've seen it all before. However... the teacher wasn't paying close attention. "Ok, now, you always use a small blue flame..." True, but he had a large yellow flame in front of him. Actually, it wasn't in FRONT of him like you are supposed to have, he was sort-of bent over the thing. So, when he stepped back from the flame, it was noticed by the class that his tie was on fire. He put the fire out with no real danger and somehow managed to finish the lecture. Same teacher, same year. He's demonstrating something with an acid. He spills some on his hand. A student suggests "Uh, don't you need to wash that off immediately?" "Don't worry-it won't hurt you." *pats hand on pants-apparently he's losing a little sensation in his hand* Several minutes later, the teacher decided his hand was in trouble. So, he dashed down the classroom, turned the sink on full-blast and shoved his hand under it, spraying acid solution across his desk. A little later, he needed to be excused. His pants were smoking from where he brushed the acid onto them. Same teacher, same year. Demonstrates that magnesium and water are volatile when mixed. Most teachers use a little of each and make a tiny explosion in the lab. He used a fist-sized chunk of magnesium and blew up the container when he dropped it in. ================================================ My own high school graduation might qualify, I suppose. We did a wave when the valedictorian's speech ended. One plan, which was discovered, was to throw ALL the graduation caps, not UP at the end, but directly at the principal. (He was really arrogant.) Apparently, they found out, and had us file past a receiving line and shake hands on our way out. It worked well and was pretty smart of them. However, it meant that most of us were in our seats for several minutes. The instant the receiving line started, you would have thought you were at a concert. Frisbees were being tossed back and forth, and a giant beachball was in play. My parents still have a photo of that thing somewhere. I'm sure I'm just glossing over memories of some REAL crazy things.....

Dawayback, A) The keystone books "of" vpw were basically photocopies of books by JE Stiles, EW Kenyon, EW Bullinger, BG Leonard. vpw claimed to have written them himself with input by God. He made some side-comments here and there after this that none of his class was original, and occasionally (if you looked VERY hard) one of their names would come up. (Except the late Bullinger, whose work came up more than that, but hardly enough to justify rewriting "How To Enjoy the Bible" and 1/2 the appendices in the Companion Bible. vpw's naked, open contempt of all other Christians was a deliberate smokescreen to the fact that he HIMSELF assembled his class from materials readily available to him. So, the "divine origin" of pfal was a naked lie. B) Second of all, vpw's been shown to make up snowstorms to dress up things as "holy writ" before. So, when you hear that vpw saw snow nobody else saw to confirm the divine message he heard, go back to said divine message. That divine message, supposedly, was that if vpw would teach it to others, God would teach vpw God's Word like it hadn't been known since the first century. Let's look at that one. In the first century AD, there were no printing presses. Gutenberg was born a LOT later. What was known was the spoken word and the Old Testament. There was no unified vision of things, as Acts clearly shows, and as the Epistles show. (Why rebuke division if there is no division?) So, "as it was known in the first century" is a cute concept which is a convenient fiction. In the first century AD, Christians were on the run. The made sure other Christians were not in financial straits, and spent time together where they could find it, eating together, etc. Where they found a haven, they stayed and taught. (Like a short time at the School of Tyrannus.) They were hardly an "organized" bunch, definitely not centralized. If they saw a need in another city's Christians, someone passed the hat around, and they sent money. Compare them to twi. Everything centrally organized. Everything centrally controlled. Everything STANDARDIZED-everyone took the same classes. All the money goes ONE WAY. Permanent locations. What the top leader says, goes-no questions. Organized meetings. Extensive study of Greek, but NO time for charity. The first-century Christian church would never RECOGNIZE twi. So, the idea that vpw's work in any way RESEMBLED the first-century Christian church is a pipe-dream, and I'd bet you never ever heard the question brought up. Third, EVERYTHING vpw taught was ALREADY being taught at the time he "learned" it. Supposedly, GOD would teach him "like it hadn't been known since...", but it was already known! So, THAT part was a fiction. vpw's "God" should have known better. Fourth, vpw learned all this from other people's works, not by studying the Bible himself, and not from the utterance of God. So, the entire basis of this claim is false. So, the supposed basis of authority of twi was the supposed vision that supposed man of God vpw claimed to receive. This vision was either completely made up by vpw, or was received from a source OTHER than God, who would know better. C) The idea that things were perfect at the "root" locales was false. Things were godly and a blessing on the field in many places. Sometimes that was true at the hqs. Sometimes it wasn't, as vpw or lcm would fly into a rage over some picayune detail being less than perfect, or decide this would be a good time to find an impressionable young female and initiate her into "blessing the man of God." D) Many people there were a blessing, many times. Many teachings were great blessings, as were the times with other Christians. That was true. That does NOT excuse anything that was false. =============================================================== BTW, Dawayback, You missed a lot of Mike's initial diatribes. First, he said our modern Bibles are "unreliable fragments" and "tattered remnants". Then he said they were "approximations." Then he said they are "close", but short of the mark. Apparently, now he's back to the "unreliable fragments" and tattered remnants." (Those of you following along at home, please adjust your scorecards.) Mike has also declared that, as based on the 1942 promise, ("I will teach you My Word like it hasn't been known since the First Century if you will teach it to others") vpw's work has completely replaced the Bible as the source of information from God Almighty to man. His current statement, as you can see, was "God worked with others and told Dr to include their work at times, with the appropriate corrections." In English, "God instructed vpw to plagiarize the works of others and make whatever alterations were necessary, all to bless YOU." Mike's problem with the Bible? "God's Word was LOST in the First Century. God solved this problem with His 1942 promis and Dr's faithful participation in THIS project." So, there would be no need for God to give vpw the entirely-false message vpw claimed to have received, or for vpw to plagiarize (at God Almighty's behest) the works of other men of God if the Bibles we have can accurately convey the intent of God Almighty. If they COULD do that, then vpw's entire ministry was a lie and a sham, and Mike's entire mission in life is based on a lie and a sham. All of you can settle down now.... The Bible has been shown to be accurate. vpw's side-comments about it being less than 100% perfect notwithstanding, and Mike's assertions that it's "unreliable" or "tattered" or "an approximation" to the contrary. Here-see for yourselves. http://www.probe.org/docs/auth-bib.html http://www.biblebelievers.net/BibleVersions/kjcforv1.htm http://www.fni.com/cim/briefing/bibrelia.html So, if you're worried that the Bible's not accurate, read up. It's STILL the written Word now as much as it was when first written. (Those of you who don't want to believe in the Bible are of course free to continue to ignore it, but it DOES hold up historically.) (Edited to correct the link locations.) [This message was edited by WordWolf on January 09, 2004 at 6:29.] [This message was edited by WordWolf on January 09, 2004 at 6:30.]

If they want to make it a modern horror flick, they can cast Bea Arthur as Endora. :)--> The mind boggles at some of the casting possibilities.... who might play Dr Bombay? Uncle Arthur?

I thought you were going to suggest watching them in a machine that plays them BACKWARDS. It REALLY changes things. The Godfather becomes an upbeat story about a mob family that slowly loses money and power, and goes back to Italy. Jaws becomes a movie about a shark who throws up people until they open the beach. Friday the 13th movies are about a guy in a hockey mask that heals people by pulling a machete out of their heads. :)-->

You noticed. vpw and lcm derided the RC church for the doctrines of papal infallibility and apostolic succession, then tried to claim those very things.

I thought it was "the Star". "The Sun" was a bad paper for years. It was "that gentleman.....who took over...as editor of the Star...that family-loving newspaper the Star...that total degraded sh*bag who should be put in prison for his crimes against women."

Rocky, I believe that story has been discredited as a real answer from an exam. In still quote it because I find it fascinating, mind you, I just don't believe it's true. (Check Snopes if you like.) ========================================================== In this one case, I agree with what Johnny Lingo posted. I think he's dead, and we'll find out at the appointed hour if he's in the same crowd as the rest of us. =========================================================== Here's an alternate answer, however..... Ever read Dante's Inferno? It's by Dante Aligheri, and titled "the Inferno", thus, Dante's Inferno. It's a classic of Italian literature. In fact, some people consider it to be THE classic of Italian literature-Dante's mother, in particular, I think, had something to say about that. The Inferno is a journey through hell-Dante's personal vision of what it's like in hell. We travel down through each level. Hell has levels so that sinners who committed worse sins are lower and tortured worse than those who committed lesser sins. We reach the bottom of the Ninth Circle of Hell. Dante's vision of the lowest point of the bottom of the Ninth Circle of hell is described there..... It is Judas Iscariot....surrounded, not by fire, but by ice... unable to move, but forever conscious, and aware of the terrible betrayal that he committed. That is what Dante believed was at the lowest point of hell. But, I say, that UNDERNEATH Judas, is VPW. Forced forever to stare thru the ice at Judas' behind. Well, that's one possibility, anyway. ============================================================ For those of you wondering, I adapted that from something Ben Elton did once. You may know him from "Blackadder."

I recommend everyone turn the computer off for 30 minutes and take a brisk walk around the block. That's just a suggestion, though. Feel free to ignore it.

Well, just off the top of my head, vpw had a tendency to bash conventional Christians if he had enough time in front of the microphone. In know the Rock of Ages '79 set had at least one tape- "the Battlefield-the Mind" where he compared his teaching on free will-favourably of course- to the amount of time they discuss it in "any theological cemetary or seminary I've heard of." Obviously, he seems to have been absent at seminary whenever they discussed Calvinism and free will-this is a regular subject, BTW. Last time I sat thru the "Living Victoriously" tapes, I had the impression that each tape had at least one point where he took a potshot at conventional Christianity. The book has either edited out or softened mant of them. Example: opening tape=opening chapter. "The Roman Catholics would have us believe that the word "protestant" is a negative word, that it means you're protesting against something. That's a lie from the pit of Roman Catholicism..." He then mentioned how the word "Protestant" has as its root "speaking forth", which is confirmed by my dictionary. The book gives the explanation without the derogatory comment. I'm unsure if it was simply thought that the comment was more profitable this way, or if it reveals a bias in the editor, meaning that they didn't really register the insult. Really, though.... Find any tape where either has time to ramble on for a while, then listen. You'll probably find SOMETHING. vpw WAS fond of bashing other Christians. In fact, that thing that Mike lauds to the sky, what Mike calls vpw's "last" or "lost" teaching, basically says 2 things: A) The best thing for Christians out there is pfal-all 3 levels. B) Outside of twi, there's no real accuracy among Christians.

One of our newer arrivals suggested the "help-the pfal class was stolen" thread is a keeper. I'll mention ones I like, but I'm biased, and think that 1/2 the threads I start are keepers. :)-->

If anyone's interested... Greasespot's main page has links to all the documents, including the POP paper. Feel free to reread it for yourself. Basically, it says vpw was dying and worried that twi was going to be less holy after he died. Nothing about vpw's sins- just problems with his hand-picked and personally-trained successors....and we only have cg's word that this is what vpw said. http://www.greasespotcafe.com ============================================== Johnny, Few, if any, here would claim that you and others weren't tremendously blessed. Shaz explains it all a few posts up. You were blessed because of God working in the hearts of the lowly peons out in the field. Meanwhile, root-rot affected the beauracracy, as your 10% went to pay for luxuries at hq (like a plane, comfy offices, an ostentatious auditorium, etc) and NEVER for things out there where the people were actually DOING stuff. Think for a moment. I'll bet you have many good memories. I do. Mine are almost exclusively from out on the field, though, from amongst the lowly peons. Yours might be, also.

vpw was the Pharisee, and lcm was the student that he made "twice the child of hell" that he was. vpw and lcm were not different in SUBSTANCE, only in STYLE. Those who were closer to "backstage" are well familiar with vpw's vices (love of luxury and being feted everywhere he went, his love of alcohol and tobacco, the sex maniac stuff) and his shortcomings (his wrath whenever things weren't JUST the way he wanted, the evils of anyone in power other than him, the evils of all other Christian leaders) than people who only saw the image he projected on tape and during public events.

Jehosaphat was pretty emotional on a few occasions. It would surprise me if he did NOT jump at some point.

That's fricking hysterical. I loved both skits. The Sarah Michelle Geller/Jack Black scene is where we find out that Jack had the one ring attached to himself with a body piercing (a "Prince Albert", to be specific). The acceptance speech with Slinker and Stinker was, if anything, a LOT funnier. :)--> The only thing I liked better was Yoda's acceptance for "Best Fight Sequence" that year. :)--> BTW, Frodo was 33 at the time of the party. Bilbo was 111. The "private dinner" at the end of the party was planned to equal their ages in guests, 12 dozen, or one gross. :)--> I'm glad they kept in Bilbo's second comment, intact. That was the one that confused the guests, where he said he liked half of them half as much as they deserved, and so on. I also like that we saw him telling the kids stories about his journey "there and back again".

Clicking up again for current discussions...

This is a thread with some info on Leonard...

Clicking this back up, since we're discussing it...

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