Oakspear

Bravo Bob, bravo...well done! Catcup...Mrs. Wierwille stopped her bio of her husband in the very early 60's, when they moved their "headquarters" to the family farm with financial underwriting by Harry W. It didn't even cover the expansion in Ohio, let alone the filming of PFAL, the "hippies" and the Way Corps.

"I am so very thankful to be no longer eating the pure .... that the XXXXXX Church was serving and able to enjoy the .... laced brownies that God so surely had a hand in baking. I know that dmiller had some errors in his brownies, but I take that brownie and carefully remove the .... using my exacto knife. What fools you all are for renouncing dmiller's brownies simply based on his sin"

"Do you believe that I can heal your arm?" "Yes, but I do not believe in your brownies"

The greatest cargoes of life come in on quiet brownies

Sky: I might even question the very existance of the brownies :D-->

dmiller: Oldies will no doubt castigate most of us for "renouncing" your brownies based on your sins, while he retains the parts that "make sense" to him. Might the phrase eat .... be appropriate at this time?

My first ROA was six or seven days ('78), and even though there was some structure, there was plenty of room for doing your own thing on your own schedule, in fact I never ate at the standard meal times, since I liked to avoid the lines. (Rascal, I never did warm up to biscuits and "gravity" - always sent me to the port-o-johns - must be a southern thing :D-->) Even though the grand poobah taught at the main stage each night there was a casualness about wandering in & out that appealed to me. There were teachings geared to specialized audiences (musicians, teachers, parents, etc) during the day that you could attend or not; or you could just hang out with your buddies old and new. In 1981 I attended just one evening teaching: opening night (I was a returning WOW) and worked Bless Patrol for most of the other nights. In contrast, the final ROA in 1995 was a nightmmare. We were informed as we arrived that Martindale would be teaching "The Class on Living Sanctified"; he taught from Exodus in the morning and from Corithians in the evening. With our work assignments and meetings with our home twigs we hardly had a moment to ourselves.

Harve was in Branded - he actually taught my twig when they were on some kind of tour in 1981 or 82. He was also the guitarist for the TWI "house band" that included Dave L, Fred G on bass Anthony H on drums and sometimes Mike M.

I'm thinking that I hope "Holy Spirit" doesn't get in a funny mood around me and decide to bang my head Also I hope I can hook up with a god or goddess who can do better than firing my butt in order for me to feel compassion for the next guy In principle I agree with part of your point Kit, that the divinity does things in our lives for others...I'm just sorry that your god had to beat up Fred and then fire him ;)-->

Well, the only sad part Sky, is that it took me so long to figger it out :P--> I agree with you that everybody wanted to give Wierwille the benefit of the doubt, maybe because we wanted what he claimed to have: "The Answers".

Okay Oldies, I'm going to try ione more time: I can't speak for others, only for myself. First, I made contact with TWI via a Twig Fellowship in 1978 and shortly thereafter took the PFAL class. Lots of things are taught in that class, some which are the same as "orthodox" Christianity, some which are not. Wierwille backs up some of what he says with a plain unvarnished reading of the KJV, but some things that he teaches are based on Greek and Hebrew texts and definitions, most of which I was unqualified to verify, and some of which differ from what can be found in Greek and Hebrew reference works. Insofar as I couldn't read the biblical languages, I had to take his word for some of the things which he taught. In my view he established his trustworthiness to me (at that time) by his plain reading of verses that contradicted the orthodox view - what was written appeared to coincide with what he taught. Since many things that he taught were based on these unverifiable (to me) definitions and interpretations, much of what I believed was based on an assumption that he was telling the truth about what he was teaching. Anyone who says that they didn't follow the PFAL doctrine just because Wierwille taught it should, IMHO, reconsider in light of what I just wrote Years later Martindale took over as primary teacher of TWI. Mostly he based his teachings on what Wierwille taught, but as time went on he added his own unverifiable definitions and interpretations. When Martindale taught his new class, The Way of Abundance and Power to the cameras, he was in the midst of an "affair" that would eventually lead to a lawsuit and subsequently to his "dethronement". I wondered how someone who was so immersed in deception could be in any position to teach the foundational truths to "the household", especially in light of sections like "The First Sin of Mankind" where he comes up with definitions of Hebrew words without any apparent source other than his own mind. This doubt led me to begin examining Martindale's class, page by page. I found many, many, many errors. I began "throwing out" Martindalean doctrines one by one, not because Martindale sinned, but because the doctrines were not compatible with either the bible or the "keys" that Wierwille taught. As I dug into Martindale's errors, I began to find similar errors in Wierwille's work. By this time I had made no decision to throw anything out beforehand, but to carefully examine what was taught, using Wierwille's own methodology. (At this time I had no knowledge of Wierwille's sins) Eventually I found enough errors to undermine my faith that Wierwille's work was fundamentally sound. Later I checked out the CES website and was amzed to find the number of differences between CES and TWI, even though both used Wierwille's keys to letting the bible interpret itself. After this I took a good hard look at the disagreements among ex-wayfers as to what "The Word" said and meant, then at the multitude of differences among Christian denominations as to what the will of God was...never mind the non-Christian religions out there. I decided to "reset" my faith as it were, start over. This necessarily meant "throwing out" what I learned before. I wanted to begin anew, starting with being convinced that there was even a God, then moving on to more specific things. After that I started finding out about Wierwille's lies, his sins, his untrustworthiness. So, no, I didn't "throw out" anything because of Wierwille's sins. I hope that is abundantly clear.

Do you ever really read what people post? I can't believe that you are as moronic and dense as you appear Oldies. Nobody is that stupid.

"I know stuff you don't know so stop arguing"...where have I heard that before?

I stand by my statementActually, I'm in the minority here since I am no longer a Christian post-TWI, but it's not because of Wierwille's sins. And I had the same reaction that rascal did which she ably expressed in the following quote: What many if not all have done is to discontinue believing what Wierwille taught just because Wierwille taught it. In other words, Wierwille's word that something is true is not good enough, the "truth" must be corroberated from another, more trustworthy, source.

Hmm...Oldies throws out some of what Wierwille taught, but that's just because it "makes sense" and "nothing better has come along"...anyone else throws out some of what Wierwille taught andthey are "renouncing 'The Word' because of Wierwille's sins".

Yes we do :D-->

Despite being originally from NYC, I really hate the Yankees. Go Red Sox!

Hi Radar (you weren't asking me a question - just wanted to let you know someone is paying attention to you) :P--> all this talk about spankings is making me sweaty )

Liar. And how would you know what went on? Reading your crystal ball? You make all kinds of wild assumptions about my motives without a shred of evidence. Liar You weren't trying to cause trouble for TWI? --> That's what it looked like to me too --> Could you inform us (or re-inform us as the case may be) what "really" went on?

Yup Shaz & Cat...my position exactly!

Only went after '78, so it was all at New Knox for me. I hotelled it a few times, that was comfortable, but I didn't like being away from the "action". Never RVed Tents were okay when I was young and single, but hell when I had young kids with me

Nooooo smart guy ;)--> The larger one is a Boy Scout emblem and the smaller a Webelos pin. Although you can't see it in the picture, on my right hand is a silver ring with leaves and a dove in the center that I bought at the ROA in 1979. The chain around my neck is holding up a Celtic knot design that represents the three aspects of the goddess. :D--> Oh, Mr. Dictator: Can we move the Roast back to September? The folks who requested October didn't come...I have inventory the 1st weekend in October and am working at Mystic Fest the 2nd weekend

Well, I found it a welcome challenge to particiapate in discussions without going into agnostic mode. But I hope some of those who left GS will come back & play with us some more

Whether anyone can produce the quotes or not, I remember Rascal being called a liar and full of crap. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Hey Rascal...looks like you've hidden your goat...it doesn't look like he's getting it!