Oakspear

I'm not one of those who believe that medical doctors are infallible, or that there is absolutely no merit in alternative healing or treatments...but... ...I have a problem with the proponents of this stuff telling me that it will absolutely work all of the time and with listening to the pseudo-scientific b.s. that often accompanies it. In my observation Some of these "remedies" seem to work only in the mind of the recipient, with no objective or repeatable phenomena Some apparently bring results some of the time, with no understanding of why they work when they do and don't when they don't Some really do work, and are ignored by the scientific and medical establishment either because of competition or because the mechanism that affects the cure doesn't fit any known theories But if it works for you...go for it.On the other hand...pragmatic fallacy

I was "confronted" by the region coordinator, his wife and the HFC one night. They had printouts of posts that I had authored under a previous handle. They had compared questions that I had about certain Way doctrines with postings on the same subject on GS. I was thrown out several days later because I "did not believe that the Trustees were leading the ministry in the right direction". I'd like to suggest that "The WayGB" is more than just some staff dweebs sitting in front of computers all day printing out posts. After all, someone has to make the connection between the poster on GS and the flesh and bllod person in a Way fellowship The WayGB is anyone who is willing to turn in the person who sits next to them at fellowship, or even a family member, because they agree with the goals and methods of TWI. The WayGB is anyone who believes that disagreement is tantamount to rebellion and devil-spirit possession. The WayGB is anyone who will take a private conversation or correspondance and turn it over to "leadership". With the exit in the last several years of all but a few who are repulsed by TWI's actions, I'm sure that they don't have as much to do, but they are alive and well.

ex10 - gifts are good, especially when they come from the heart - it's when they are mandated and hemmed in - that's when they're a problem.

makes me glad I never shop Wally-Mart

Hope R: I thought it was a Word in Biz weekend, but maybe not. They were not going after spin-offs and ex-Way people only. He had a list of totally unrelated organizations that used "The Way", or "Power for...." something. One example was a magazine put out by the American TaeKwonDo Association called "The Way Magazine". (The word "Do" in Korean means "the way".)I {blushing in shame} was the one who alerted them to that particualr one, so my ears perked up when I heard Allen talking about it. After a letter from TWI's lawyers they changed the name of the mag to The Way of TaeKwonDo

If that is an example of your thought process, then you are in trouble, Pat. Disagreeing with you and your point of view is "obviously" working for TWI? Get a grip.BTW, I hope you win, your grandstanding and self-promotion notwithstanding

In the early 90's a rev from Minnesota was coming down to teach Rise & Expansion. We called his wife for sugesstions for a gift (we didn't know him very well, so we wanted to know what would "bless" him) She faxed us a list that had been made up ahead of time. Very detailed as to what his likes and dislikes were (e.g. sweatshirts and jackets are fine, but no local sports team logos) Not like they expected gifts or anything :D-->

Zix: I'll buy you a drink if you can use the word "contrapositive" in your toast

Oh I get it Pjroberge...we're supposed to check our opinions and good sense at the door when an ex-wayfer gets tangled up with TWI.

Which is the most loving of "Doctor" Wierwille's signatures?

cast of characters...I love it! Of the sixteen GSers listed on page one (including the bride & groom) I've actually laid eyes on eight, so's I can identify half! Lookin' forward to meeting the rest

Chinny - we're Grease Spotters - we argue about everything! :D--> I'd wager my old PFAL book that all of us will behave once we get to the hotel and bask in the love ;)--> ...really

Sorry Steve! ;)-->

Um...the blues aren't depressing...not most blues anyway...but I convinced Steve! and Chinson to go to a blues club last year and they weren't impressed ;)-->

Hey Zix...I'm not a strip joint kind of guy (anymore ;)-->)...and I look really bad in a bikini - so maybe you and me can form the core of the "third way" and grab some adult beverages where everybody is fully clothed. :D--> Susie, my girlfriend will be attending as well and has made it known that she is sticking close by me, this being her first exposure to the Grease Spot gang

No, this is not an April Fool's Day thread On several occassions I had TWI women tell me that they were "believing for bigger breasts". These weren't prepubescent lassies either, in each situation the women were over thirty (at least) . Maybe it goes back to that story in Christian Family & Sex where Wierwille talks about the woman with different sized breasts who "believes" for them to be the same size. Maybe it was the men of TWI following the leader and having unreal expectations of the ladies...I don't know. --> The first time I heard this was at Martindale's first advanced class. A woman (who was there with her husband) told several of us how she had been flat-chested and "just knew" that her fiancee at the time would be "blessed" if she had larger breasts. So she "believed", and what do ya know...they grew! And they got married :D--> Another time a recently divorced woman who had just started dating told me that she was "believing" for bigger breasts because when she got involved in a sexual relationship she wanted to "bless" her partner. Neither my ex-wife, nor anyone I dated before had an ample bosom, and neither they nor I were "believing" for growth in that area. I just thought that "adding another cubit" in this part of the anatomy by "believing" was pretty wacky. -->

This thread sure has taken an interesting turn. Thanks ex-Corps folks for broadening the picture a bit. In my observation, there were several less-than-optimum behaviors and mindsets feeding off each other. There are always people who want to be told what to do, who couldn't make a decision for themselves if their lives depended on it. To these kind of people a twig coordinator is just another person who they can look to for all the answers. Only they don't follow through, they don't follow your advice, but are there again the next week with the same or a similar problem. When you don't supply the answers that they like, they shop around. Then a Way Corps grad shows up. All new and shiney and zealous for the Word. No matter what this individual Way Corps grad holds in their heart, the propaganda from HQ is that a special breed of cat is coming to town. Way Corps is showing up. Someone trained and committed and (the implication is) smarter than you, more committed than you, and crammed full of more bible than you'll ever know. So naturally the always-have-a-problem folks swarm all over the new WC grad. The other folks, who may have gotten along just fine, think that maybe they should get some counsel from this wise Way Corps grad. Maybe the WC grad starts believing his own press releases! Most of my pre-1990 expewrience with Corps grads was pretty neutral: I didn't bother them and they didn't bother me. I saw good & bad and smart & stupid and loving & unloving in about the same ratios as the general population. Post-1990 was different. Post-1990, even the seemingly nice folks just had to stick their nose in our affairs. We had to have meetings about setting goals, and "report back" on all manner of life's details. Nothing we did was too small to be scrutinized by our "leaders". I know that most of them were just following orders from above, but it's tough to see the good in someone whose doing surprise inspections or demanding schedules.

def got the joke :D-->

My ex-wife and I had marital problems, many people inside and outside TWI do. TWI didn't cause them, but they made them worse, and certainly did nothing to help. TWI leaders gave contradictory advice to each of us, and a third version of counsel when they spoke to us together. TWI leaders invaded our home under color of (godly) authority and disruted our routines. TWI leaders encouraged each of us (especially my ex-wife) to complain about the shortcomings of the other. TWI leaders constantly fed my ex-wife verses about withdrawing, separating, not being unequally yoked, in the context of a marriage. TWI leaders would tell us that we were to agree together on how to run our household, then would "direct" my ex-wife to take actions that were in opposition to what we had agreed on. I'm sure I'll think of more

I saw Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back over the weekend. Stupid, yet funny. "Oh my God, do you get free refills with that?"

I always wanted to understand the bible and to know God. The Way posed as a group that could help me do both. I was impressed at my first fellowship by the confidence of the people there, that intrigued me. During the PFAL class Wierwille does a pretty good job of baiting the hook for those who want to understand the bible by demonstrating how to read what is written. He teaches basic keys to understanding the bible: read what is written, read the context, understand the culture, fundamentals of Greek and Hebrew. He started out so simple and basic. It was so self-evident when you just read the bible. He built a foundation of trust early in the class and gradually, oh so subtly introduces things that are not clearly written in the "text". Before you know it definitions and whole theologies are springing from thin air, or at least from very shaky foundations. But I hardly noticed. Mixed in with the "intellectual" approach was pure emotion: it's "Christ in you!" and ended with the crescendo of speaking in tongues out loud in that chaotic group setting. Well that just sealed my fate.

Apology accepted :D-->. But really, I do have to get to bed. I have some thoughts on this that I'd like to post, but I'll wait until tomorrow, after a full day of capitalistic activity

Okay Tree...I was not conned by the novelty of someone actually opening a bible...I said that's what hooked me. Perhaps I wasn't clear. I should have said "what attracted me". How I was conned is a long story. Maybe I'll take the time to post it tomorrow, it's midnight here and I work for a living :D--> or maybe you'll figure your own mind out before then. Asking for opinions and then shooting them down without really seeing the depth of the reasoning is probably not what you're trying to do NLBT. I hope you get the answers that you're looking for

The reasons for being "hooked" in the first place are varied: love of God manifested in peoples' lives, bible taught "accurately", committment level, etc. Mine was the novelty of seeing someone actually read the bible to find answers, rather than in one's own philosophy or in religious fancies that were not biblically based.

Well NLBT, I can tell you how I fell for it, but that might not be the same as for you. I suggest trying to remember what attracted you to TWI in the first place. Perhaps whatever that was that attracted you was important enough that it distracted you from seeing areas that were not so great. Were there times when you knew doctrine or practice was wrong, but you compromised, or looked the other way because of the perceived good in TWI?