Oakspear

To avoid continually derailing and distracting on the "TWI Witchcraft Thread", here's a list of different types of witches. I erred in presenting witches in only one (positive) light, ignoring the other definitions and usages: Definitions of witchcraft The following 17 common meanings have been derived from our glossary of religious terms [W]. Some are positive; others neutral, many negative. "Witchcraft" can be: In the Hebrew Scriptures and ancient Native American usage: an malicious person who secretly uses evil sorcery (black magic) to intentionally harm others In the Christian Scriptures: a criminal who murders people by administering poisons. A Gothic Satanist; a worshiper of Satan who, during the late Middle Ages and Renaissance, was believed to use black magic to harm others, by involving the aid of Satan and his demons. A Wiccan; a follower of Wicca, a benign reconstruction of an ancient European Celtic religion. Wiccans are prohibited from using magic to harm others. No all-evil deity -- called Satan, the Devil, or by any other name -- exists in their hierarchy of Gods and Goddesses. A follower of modern-day Religious Satanism who recognizes Satan as an earthy, virile pre-Christian, pagan concept. A wizard who inhabits an alternate world of fantasy and magic, filled with good and evil people with magical powers, flying broomsticks, dragons, talking animals, magical quills, etc. e.g. in Harry Potter books. A person, usually a woman, who was born with supernatural abilities and is capable of performing miracles by waving a wand, wiggling a nose, etc. This is often seen in TV programs, like Bewitched or Charmed. A woman of such incredible beauty that she bewitches others A woman of incredible ugliness; a hag. Followers of a group of Caribbean religions which combine elements of tribal African religions with Christianity; e.g. Santeria, Vodun. In some African Aboriginal religions, a person who unknowingly has supernatural powers capable of hurting others. Witch doctors attempt to counteract these evil energies. An expert; e.g. "She is a witch of a writer." A person who uses a forked stick or other instrument to locate sources of underground material -- typically water. A woman who is not submissive to her husband. A general "snarl" word for a nasty, vicious person, typically female. A follower of any religion other than Christianity (e.g. of Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, Native American Spirituality, etc.) The Christian Scriptures state that people who pray to other Gods are in fact worshiping Satan or demons. Many conservative Christians, believing in the inerrancy of the Bible use this description of non-Judeo-Christian religions. A ceremonial magician with unusual knowledge who can apparently perform miracles during magic/magick rituals. It doesn't matter if we turn to dust...guess I'll see you dancin' in the ruins tonight Oakspear [This message was edited by Oakspear on February 26, 2004 at 17:06.] [This message was edited by Oakspear on February 26, 2004 at 17:09.] [This message was edited by Oakspear on February 26, 2004 at 17:11.]

Oldies: Since your memories are different than mine, you must be wrong. It doesn't matter if we turn to dust...guess I'll see you dancin' in the ruins tonight Oakspear

"Witch" and "witchcraft" are words that have many meanings and connotations. There is a website called "apologist's index" (I'll post the link when my home computer is hooked up) that has good definitions of many religons and philosophies, from the adherants point of view, as well as from the outside point of view. From what I have seen, there are a small number of those who call themselves Satanists in the U.S. - of that group, the majority worship satan not as the Christian adversary to God, but as a pre-Christian god or principle of self-love or even hedonism; kind of an "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die, so f***** everybody else" philosophy. A minority are what other satnists call "dabblers", usually rebellious youth looking to shock. Some of the "dabblers" refer to themselves as witches. The vast majority of those who refer to themselves as witches, or Wiccan do not subscribe to the Judeo-Christian belief in a God and his enemy, the Devil/Satan. They run the gamut from goddess worshippers to pantheists to humanists. What other peoples' opinion is of these beliefs is irrelevant to the actual beliefs. I realize that we were taught in the Way, and some of you still believe, that anyone not worshipping the biblical God is really worshipping satan. But this has nothing to do with actual beliefs, same goes for what satanists think about it. It doesn't matter if we turn to dust...guess I'll see you dancin' in the ruins tonight Oakspear

Nope. Most witches do not believe that there is a devil.It doesn't matter if we turn to dust...guess I'll see you dancin' in the ruins tonight Oakspear

Wierwille did several things: He directly plagarized, word for word, in some of his writings He took ideas and concepts that others came up with and called them his own after putting them in his own words He mangled things that others taught because he didn't understand them (e.g. Bullinger's explanation of epil?? and his theory of why Jesus' brothers couldn't have been sons of Joseph by a previous marriage) He came up with some stuff on his own and tried to find bible verses to back him up He tied different concepts together in a way that was advantageous for him It doesn't matter if we turn to dust...guess I'll see you dancin' in the ruins tonight Oakspear

That wasn't my experience Oldies, therefore your experience must not be true :D-->It doesn't matter if we turn to dust...guess I'll see you dancin' in the ruins tonight Oakspear

Actually Rascal, your emotional approach to issues here at GS is very helpful to me; you sometimes "mom" me into seeing things in a different light. And I notice that you give credence to my logical, or emotionless point of view quite often. I try to see both sides of an issue, even when I think one of the sides is a s.o.b. Yin & Yang sister Rascal, it all fits into the big picture! :D--> It doesn't matter if we turn to dust...guess I'll see you dancin' in the ruins tonight Oakspear

Thanks for the perspective Rascal, but unfortunately, GJ probably would have more success suing his mom, which he doesn't want to do, then suing TWI. While most of us here can believe the incident happened (we've been there), it would be quite another thing to convince a judge or jury. From what's posted here it looks like there's proof that mama Jessio took money intended for Georgio and spent it on Corps tuition, good luck digging up any evidence that local "leadership", let alone the Trustees coerced her into taking the money. I can imagine money being flushed down the legal toilet persuing this and still getting nothing. It doesn't matter if we turn to dust...guess I'll see you dancin' in the ruins tonight Oakspear

All of us who were parents while in TWI had to make decisions. Sometimes they were bad decisions, heck, sometimes they were AWFUL decisions. We look back at a lot of those decisions and with 20/20 hindsight see that they were wrong, hurtful, or just plain stupid. TWI didn't literally steal your money, or mine, or anyone else's; they conned us, and we bought the con. In your case, your mother bought the con, and you were affected by her decision. Most of us who gave our youth and our lives to TWI might have done things differently than we did if we knew what we know now...but we didn't know then what we know now. Your mother didn't think she was stealing from her son to purchase a worthless associate of theology degree, she saw it as an opportunity to serve God; I'm sure that she was convinced that what she was doing was best for her, and for you too. It doesn't matter if we turn to dust...guess I'll see you dancin' in the ruins tonight Oakspear [This message was edited by Oakspear on February 22, 2004 at 12:55.]

WN: I usually give when I feel like it! Panhandlers, neighbors, co-workers, whatever...sometimes I feel like giving, sometimes not. The only thing that gets my back up is when someone I turn down gives me some crap because I didn't give to them. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

YupIn theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

I received a phone call from a Trustee in the aftermath of the Allen lawsuit and Martindale's resignation. I was lied to then, why would I expect the truth now? In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

:D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :)--> :)--> :)--> :)--> :)--> ;)--> ;)--> ;)--> ;)--> ;)--> :P--> :P--> :P--> :P--> :P--> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

If "green" is real, what is its counterfeit? In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

No, just a big forehead In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

You sir, are kee-rect! ...and Tony Kaye was the keyboardist before Wakeman. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Martindale's showed off his Harvard Classics collection and his college degree in WayAP, but he mustn't have taken any logic courses judging by the content. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

It's Wayspeak or it's equivalent (since I don't know the source). It's a pious platitude. Just where is the center of His Word? Psalms, right in the middle? Ephesians? Amos? If the statement is followed up with specifics, then that's a different story, but mouthing a slogan helps few. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Sure Wierwille said to "read it yourself", but the interpretation was his alone or find another cult to hang out with. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

I'd really like to hear what a "real" person (non-professional reviewer) thinks about it. My girlfriend is the only person that I know who saw it. Sure, the trailer shows the highlights, but there aren't too many dead spots, if any. The pace stays consistant throughout. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

ah...original Yes: Peter Banks, Tony Kaye, Bill Bruford, Jon Anderson, Chris Squire...nice line-up...good sound. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

He very well might have fixed it himself, or maybe it was his daughter the editor, or Walter or somebody with an education :D--> Despite Mike's focussing on the "written record", it was the spoken PFAL, audio, and especially video that made the impression on us. I read the PFAL book cover to cover before ever attending a twig fellowship, but was not impressed; it was dry and somewhat boring. The class itself is what hooked me, and it's what's in that spoken presentation that we remember. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Yeah, we can find plenty of problems in PFAL without resorting to nit-picking In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Zix: I went camping with the branch one night at a lake (Oak Lake, actually :D-->) north of Lincoln. There was a bit of a glow from the nearby city, but stars were clearly visible in the "gap", even if there were only a few, it contradicted the MOG. When I pointed them out, actually showed them the stars where the MOGs said there weren't any, I was met with embarassed silence. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Almost done! This isn't docvic, but his toady, Martindale, although he may have gotten it from Wierwille originally: Martindale explains the Big Bang as the devil making the earth "without form and void". He shows no comprehension of the Big Bang model on any level, but makes pronouncements as if they make sense. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear