Oakspear

I find it difficult in the extreme to believe that I am the only one on this board who ever did anything foolish. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

All of the houses that we entered were the homes of various people involved in the "raid". In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Lightside: Song was being sarcastic, or so it seems, but it raises an interesting question...has anyone here literally raised someone from the dead, or caused a blind man (or woman) to see? Song: Sore throat...wicked karma, bro' In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Now THAT is a good story! In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Who do you want me to apologize to M&O? You? Are you one of the women who got raided? If so, PT me and we'll talk. Corps material? Hardly. Have a nice day :D--> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Metastic&Ocular: Thanks for the lesson in humor from someone whose handle is "eye cancer". :D--> Read the title of the thread again...wild, weird, or STUPID things... typical...check TWI...check adolescent...check bullshirt...check Now,that would have been funny :D--> Hey, great idea, kill someone over a "typical sexist twi adolescent bull$hit" prank. I was in The Way when it happened, genius. It was twenty-two years ago. Again, the title of the thread... In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Lat summer I was at my favoraite watering hole with a few friends. We were invited to an "after hours" party at the home of one of the bar denizens. As the party was beginning to break up at around 5:00 AM, my buddy Kevin and I noticed that one of the guys was hitting pretty hard on one of the young ladies. She had given him a ride to the party, and he had assumed that this meant SEX!!!! She was obviously uncomfortable at his advances and was trying to avoid him. He was not taking the hint! Kevin and I sized up the situation and offered Mr. Romeo a ride home. He declined, indicating that he had an arrangement with the young lady. We told him "no, you're riding with US. After arguing back and forth for a few minutes, Kevin and I each grabbed an arm and lifted him off the floor, carrying him out to my car, where we tossed him in the back seat. After driving around in circles for 15 minutes, would-be-Romeo told us where he lived and we brought him home. The young lady was very appreciative and we became friends and remain so. Just tonight she told the storty to several of her friends. Part 2 to this story. A few weeks after the kidnapping, young lady was in the same bar with a date. She came over to say hello (and administer hugs) to Kevin and me. Her date later asked her why she was talking to the "old dudes". She replied "those old dudes are my friends...they kidnapped a guy for me!" And promptly dumped him. :D--> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Oldies: First let me explain, that when I use the term mind control, I am not using it to be synonymous with the term brainwashing. If I am being imprecise in my speech, then I apologize, but bear with me for a minute please. I do not believe that those of us in TWI were brainwashed in the sense of loss or abdication of free will. I do believe that there were mechanisms in place, including PFAL and The Way Corps, to control peoples actions and circumscribe their resonses. We all joined up of our own free will. For many of us though, once we accepted certain assumptions, our free will decisions were restricted if we wanted to stay within God's will. It was still technically free will, but it is also manipulation of a person's emotions and fears to get the desired result. Maybe "conditioned response" would more accurately describe what I'm trying to say than "mind control"; but my observation of the structure of PFAL (not the doctrines themselves, but how they are presented) leads me to conclude that it was designed to elicit certain behavior and to facilitate top down control. They have that infallibility doctrine, true, but growing up Catholic, I never saw the organized attempts at behavior modification that I saw in The Way. Most Catholics are Catholics in name only...we used to call 'em "ashes and palms" Catholics. They have no idea what the tenets of their faith are, the doctrines of their religon have no discernible affect on their daily lives, and the edicts of popes are ignored with impunity.In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

What is cthulhu, Zix?I knew you'd recognize the Black Speech, my fellow Tolkien geek! In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

While I think that Wierwille's plagarism is beyond argument, his use of the names Maggie Muggins, Henry Bollocco, Johnny Jump-Up, etc., is hardly evidence. As was previously stated, they were familiar to those who grew up in that time and culture. When somebody today says something is "Mickey-Mouse", we don't think to accuse them of ripping off Disney. If you'll remember PFAL, they weren't "characters", but casual references whenever Wierwille needed a generic name. I doubt he gave the use of these bnames a second thought. It was only in the 90's when the Rock of Ages was over run with big-headed characters like Mr. Ambassador that they were thought of as anything special. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Vickles: I get your point, but they knew it was us. I don't recommend the panty raid to anyone these days. I was young and stupid and in a cult. :D--> This is a thread about wild, weird and stupid things! In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

ash nazg durbatuluk ash nazg gimbatul ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Not ready for the ceremony yet ;)--> Susie is a NBW In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Of course TWI wasn't unique. But TWI is what we're talking about here :D--> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Checked airline ticket prices today...found some good ones, so's I won't have to drive Oakmobile III to Chicago (a true WOWmobile) My girlfriend Susie will be accompanying me to keep me in line a make sure I shave for the ceremony! In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Jerry: It was my observation, and your incident bears this out, that tongues wasn't a "proof", or a "sign that it came from God" to unbelievers, but that it got their attention. It got my attention the first time; I thought it was cool. Peoples responses varied however. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

I have not told this story in quite a while, and not at all since leaving TWI, but here goes: This takes place several months after my WOW year ended. I was living in a Way Home, and there were several other Way Homes in town. One night, Joe xxxxx, who grew up with me in Rosedale, and lived with the Limb Coordinators, called all the men from the various Way Homes together for coffee at Village Inn. I believe that there were seven of us. He started off very seriously, telling us that we were getting legalistic and religious in our thinking, and we needed to do something to shake things up. He then paused, and said with a straight face that we should conduct a ?panty raid?. (I found out much later that this was actually the idea of the LC's wife) We decided to have the raid on the night before Halloween, a Friday night. Each of the Way Homes was co-ed; we convinced the woman that we lived with that we were having a ?guys? night out?. Two of the Way Home Coordinators were women at that time. The plan was that we would wait until all the women were asleep, burst into the house with a lot of noise and bright lights, tie the women hand and foot, and steal all their underwear. We didn't tie them very tight, and we did let them keep whatever underwear that they had on We all wore disguises of some sort: Zorro masks, bandanas, paper bags over our heads, plastic Halloween masks. We piled into Joe xxxxx?s Rambler station wagon and hit my house first. There were three women who lived there with two of us guys, me and Tim xxxxx. We were to split into two teams, Team One for Carol and Joan, who slept in one bedroom, and Team Two for Lisa, in the other room. My team burst into the first bedroom, where Carol and Joan put up a fight before being subdued. Carol two-fisted Doug xxxxx in the balls and he was limping the rest of the night. We found Team Two dithering at Lisa?s door. They had started to enter, only to find Lisa sleeping in the nude, and didn?t know what to do. Lisa was a gorgeous young woman, and as appealing as her naked body was, we remained gentlemen. We rolled her up in her sheets to cover her up, and wound the rope around the sheets. On the way out we hid all the phones so that they could not call ahead and warn the other Way Homes. We ran (or limped) out to the Rambler, dubbed the Zorromobile and headed to Mike and Chris? house across town. Only two women, Kathy and Rosemarie, lived at House #2. We unlocked the door and started hooting and hollering. We didn?t count on Nancy, who was the owner of this house, and a PFAL grad, stopping by for a visit and sleeping in the living room. Nancy was almost deaf, and couldn?t see very well either. We left her alone and moved into the bedroom, where we made short work of the women and captured the contents of their underwear drawers. Just as we were leaving, the phone rang. I answered. It was Carol! She had found the phone. We ran out to the Zorromobile and headed to Way Home #3. Steve and Doug, who lived at house #3, had forgotten their keys. All the doors were locked. We figured that they had been warned. This particular house set on a steep hill. It had only one storey and a basement, but since the hill sloped down from the front, the back of the house was two levels high, while the basement was at ground level. I was boosted on top of the garage, the top of which was right under the kitchen window, which was unlatched! I crawled in, and let the rest of the guys in. Laura and Kris, the two women who lived there, had locked themselves in the bathroom, along with their underwear drawers. Joe managed to pick the lock. We got inside, tied up the girls and made off with the underwear. As we were leaving, Kris called us back. ?You guys don?t think you?re leaving without a kiss, do you? she said. So we all lined up and each gave both of the women a kiss before driving out to a local hotel to hide out for the night. We returned all the undergarments the next morning. Most of the women thought it was pretty funny and began plotting their revenge. Carol, who was a Corps grad, thought it most certainly was not funny, but couldn?t get anyone to listen to her complaints. She even complained directly to Wierwille about a week later. They never did get their revenge! In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Oldies: Read the quote from my post in context of the whole post. This was a real instance that took place, not a fantasy. Perhaps you don't know that I was kicked out less than three years ago, long after your departure from TWI. While you and I and others perhaps could easily see that Wierwille, Martindale and others made mistakes, I don't recall too many incidents where they were admitted, at least not publically. Do you know of any significant instances where anyone corrected Wierwille and Wierwille admitted his error? And that person was allowed to stick around? You would never hear Wierwille (or Martindale) flatly say that they were never wrong, but the expectation was that you would follow them, right or wrong. Corrections, if any, were made quitly and behind the scenes. Admittedly, this escalated and was codified during Martindale's reign, but are you saying that Wierwille's teachings weren't the standard by which the bible was interpreted during his lifetime? In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Ha! Got ya to look...thought I posted a wild story :P--> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Apparently we're not a very wild bunch In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Yeah, funny, isn't it, Wolf. The infallibility thing was even more insidious. Very seldom would you hear anyone come right out and say that Wierwille or Martindale was always right, but that's what it amounted to. Even if the possibility of fallibility was brought up, only the MOG could decide if the MOG had been wrong. For example, just before I was kicked out, I had gone to one of the Trustees about doctrinal errors that I had seen. He referred me to my Region Coordinator. The RC gave a few examples of things that Wierwille had been wrong about and changed. When I responded with the observation that these errors were evidence that the current doctrine could be wrong, the RC told me that the Trustees would let us know if what they were teaching was wrong. This whole mindset is the very foundation for abuse. The whole concept that the leaders cannot be wrong, but if they are, they will let us know, is a blueprint for mind control. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Seems like we were just discussing this over in Doctrinal. :D--> I wonder if the apparent fact that some people spoke in tongues with ease, some had trouble and some admit to faking is because Wierwille's teaching that "anyone who is born again has the ability to speak in tongues" is wrong. It says that the manifestation (singular) of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal. Isn't "manifestation" synonymous with "evidence"? In other words, ever man will be given evidence of that holy spirit? Then verses 9 & 10 go through the "for to one is given..." and the "anothers". It took Wierwillian scriptural gymnastics to get those verses to say that everyone should speak in tongues, everyone should interpret, everyone should discern spirits, with his teaching that it really meant for to one (profit)...to another (profit)...to another (profit). Seems kind of a stretch. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Yeah, and nobody made the dogs pour their drinks out! In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

I'm not going to dispute whether speaking in tongues is or isn't real, but I don't believe that just because you do it and aren't consciously faking it, that's it's necessarily anything supernatural. People have been engaging in speaking in tongues, or, if you prefer, in something that to the observer looks remarkably like speaking in tongues, for a long time. It pre-dates Christianity, and still goes on outside Christianity. In TWI, and even in churches that elevate the importance of SIT, there is a great pressure to perform (SIT). There is nothing necessarily supernatural about being able to spout out a string of unintelligable syllables when under that pressure, or even when affected emotionally. Your brain will not freeze up when you tell yourself to speak in tongues even if God is not involved. As far as the interpretation goes, even if there is no conscious faking, it is not impossible to shoot out a quasi-biblical pronouncement if your mind is steeped in "The Word" day in and day out. Ever notice how, in general, interpretations were roughly equivalent in complexity to the level of bible (or Way doctrine) people had? Ever have someone in your twig who always said the same thing, or whose interpretation was painfully simple? Or reflected a misunderstanding of scripture or Way teaching? A few people brought up the practice sessions where you would start with the letter "A" and move through the alphabet. How many folks every thought that not every language uses the same alphabet, let alone the same sounds? How about starting a word with the letter ?, or maybe ÿ, or even ?. For a long time my tongue sounded vaguely Asian and contained sounds like pops and clicks. It was described once as a cross between a Thai sportscaster and a Klingon. Also the whole concept of deciding what sound to start a word in tongues in seems to go against the whole "God gives the utterance" concept. So didn't anyone who did this "fake it" by definition? This is not to say that any of you who speak in tongues are faking it or deluded or anything, just that there are alternate explanations. I think that it is possible to be not consciously faking anything without the result being anything supernatural. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear

Thanks for sharing ExC --> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is Oakspear