Oakspear

VP, Harry W & Ermal Owens first BOT. there was a Board of Directors before this that was sort of an advisory group to Wierwille, but I've never seen any names mentioned. Harry died ('77?) - Howard & Don joined BOT in '77 Martindale replaced VPW in '82. Ricardo Caballero & John Townsend were Trustees for a while in the late 80's. They didn't replace anyone and weren't replaced when they left. Rivenbark replaced Don and John Reynolds replaced Howard in '97 Rivenbark replaced Martindale & Harve Platig took over Rivenbark's spot in 2001. Reynolds stepped down & was replaced by Jean-Yves Delisle in 2002 Platig left the Board in 2005. Roger Mittler, John Rupp & Vince McFadden all named VP's as the BOT, now the Board of Directors, increased to 5 members. Rivenbark now titled Chairman of the Board of Directors

Stanley Goodspeed. Related in some way to the "family tables" website - that was their contact info at one time

The mission is pretty clear and the "rules" are pretty clear. Nothing needs to be "clarified" in my opinion. No matter how many rules and how many clarifications you put out there, someone will always try to find a loophole, someone will always try to find a way around it. That doesn't mean that the administrator was a poor communicator, just that people will be people. For any who think that the proponents of the pro-TWI point of view treated unfairly, consider that none of the pro-TWI sites allow dissent from their POV. You cannot go to TWI's site, or for that matter any of the offshoots and debate TWI theology. Even the privately owned sites that we have seen from time to time screen out those who are anti-TWI. On the other side anti-TWI sites like Juedes' don't allow you to post pro-TWI material. So the pro-Wierwillites get ganged up on, aren't allowed to harrass posters with horrific TWI experiences, can't push their agendas...well, boo-f***ing-hoo. While I personally believe that the presence of dissenting opinions sharpens one's articulation of one's own position, they shouldn't be allowed to derail the primary mission.

or email me at oakspear@neb.rr.com I have a specific reason for asking. Thanks in advance for your help

I have a few questions for the innies among us: 1. Is Way Corps training held at HQ and not at Gunnison? 2. Have the "tree" terms, i.e. trunk, limb etc been totally done away with? 3. Are the titles, President, Vice President or Secretary Treasurer being used at all? 4. What is the difference between the Candidate and Apprentice Way Corps years? Thanks

On two separate occassions I apparently believed to stop the rain. Then Martindale taught that one couldn't believe to stop the rain. I was kind of afraid to try after that.

I don't look at your last post as assuaging anyone, simply setting the record straight. You were mistaken about where the quote was taken from, and you were man enough to admit your error.

Ah, another drive-by prophet telling us what we need to do, and then (typically) announcing that he will not discuss his position. I happen to know that several of the more vocal posters on this thread on both sides of the discussion have full, rich and interesting lives "on the outside" as you put it, and would venture to say that none of the participants spend all, or even a majority of their time thinking about TWI. If you don't think it's worth discussing, then take your own advice and move on.

speaking of Reynolds... When we were in the first year or so of the Rivenbark era, I felt that things were being swept under the rug, nothing was being explained and our questions weren't answered; asking questions was strongly discouraged. I wrote to Reynolds, believing that he was a man of integrity. John called me at home to discuss my concerns, after which I gave TWI another second chance. One of my concerns that he addressed was the fact that TWI was still standing upon teachings by a man who thought that adultery was okay and was making policy decisions based on so-called revelation by this man. He assured me that everything in the WayAP class was throroughly researched by others and had passed muster. He suggested that I talk to the Region Coordinator TH, who was due to teach WayAP live in Lincoln. TH, Reynolds said, would be able to answer my specific questions because he had researched and studied to ready himself to teach the class. When I finally met with TH he told me that he didn't need to study or research what was in the class: if it was good enough for the Trustees, then it was good enough for him. That was the last straw for me

Sorry, I missed that post...who said that classes were "gifted"? I think this may be the big loophole in TWI's claim of complete ownership. Was The Way in Great Britain (Geer's former org) given rights to distribute anywhere? Or just the UK and Europe? If so, is it legal to distribute outside their "sales area"? I don't understand this statement. Are you saying that The Way of California that existed in the 70's, 80's etc and The Way West are one and the same? I disagree. I can't see why TWI would do that. I believe that all 50 "limbs", The Way of...Alaska, Alabama...Wyoming...etc...were incorporated in the states where they operated, the question is, where these corporations legally independent of The Way International?

A lot of the argument about legality keeps going back to "first sale", but as WhiteDove, and now RumRunner have stated, TWI didn't sell PFAL. Class Coordinators, whether they were Way Corps or not, salaried or not, were acting as agents of TWI to make the class available for people to take. From everything I have heard about the rationale for distributing the class by people who were either out of TWI or acting at cross purposes with the BOT while still on salary or in a TWI-assigned position, it was not a legally reasoned out decision, but an effort to keep what they considered "The Word" available to the masses in the face of perceived apostacy by the "legal" leadership of TWI. Whether these classes that are floating around are legal or not, surely it would take a lot of effort for TWI to track them down, and surely whoever has them now is at least one step removed from their being appropriated from their legal owners, TWI, and not liable for prosecution.

RE: WD's last post quoting Galen (and me!) Galen's position was that he was given a copy of PFAL by the Way (Limb) of California and that The Way of California was somehow independent of The Way International, giving them the right to give away PFAL, or assign rights to others. If I remember correctly, Galen received his copy during the so-called fog years when the leadership of the California Limb was not following the dictates of the Board of Trustees. If a similar position is being taken by the person selling PFAL on eBay, I believe that they are mistaken in the assumption that the rights to PFAL were ever assigned for use without the supervision and control by The Way International.

I agree with WD's take. Some have claimed to have legal ownership, but I believe that they are mistaken.

At least he's being honest about his TWI connections. I have seen earlier versions of his bio where the Way connections were not mentioned.

I was in until 2001 and I don't recall "don't use the internet" as a policy per se. It was mentioned in connection with trolling the internet looking for information about the A\\en lawsuit however. We were told to report any media mentions of the suit, but not to go looking for information online.Martindale also derided the concept of "surfing", saying that people should do what they needed to do, get what they needed to get and not drift along.

Well...yeah...more of an obligation, hmmm?

Did he shape his hand like a duck's bill while holding the beer?

My experience was from the other end of the spectrum. I'm not a musician, or much of a singer, but I was asked by our LC to write a couple of songs for some upcoming meetings. Why me? Maybe because I was pretty good with the written word; wrote a lot of poetry, and he thought that meant that I could write music. I didn't think so, but who was I to argue with the mini-MOG? Anyway, I recruited a guitar player from another twig and we hammered something out, basically just took an old blues song and changed the lyrics, with the intention that one of the people who could actually sing would perform it. To my amazement LC insisted that I sing it, despite my protestations of incompetance. :o So anyway, we tried to work around my lack of singing talent, and came up with something that turned out to be pretty fair, considering. Then we go and audition the finished product to the LC and his wife, who then spend an hour critiquing my singing (in)ability, which I had warned them about. Trying to get me to hold notes that I could barely hit, and suggesting changes that would have required a throat transplant. After the meeting, we both said "screw him, we'll just do it the best we can." They stopped asking me after that

Oh, boo hoo. This is a discussion forum, stop feeling sorry for yourself. I for one am glad you weighed in with your first hand observations, but I am equally thankful for the observations of those who saw it somewhat differently. Well, when you read some of the things that other people have posted, of course there are going to be "yeah-buts". Everybody has a different perspective. While it certainly is better to hear from someone like yourself who was in the thick of things, yours weren't the only set of eyes & ears present. Different conclusions can be reached by reasonable people from the same set of facts. If you expect to ride in here and say your piece without any comment from anyone and attempt to cut off discussion then you're not understanding the "discussion" part of "discussion forum". Thanks again though for weighing in

Well said. We often see disagreements here at GS about when things got bad in TWI and when was the right time to leave. There have been posters who left as early as 1973 or '74, believing that the good ol' days were gone, and those who stuck around into the 90's and beyond. Even those who are still in. There was always good and bad about TWI, there always will be. When the bad outweighs the good for each individual is when it's time to get out.

I used to know a guy who called it Power for The 'Bundant Living

Hey! Cut Dmiller some slack! He's defending our northern border from all those Canucks wantin' to play hockey down here!

The group that became known as The First Way Corps started their program at Way HQ in the late summer or early fall of 1970 and graduated 2 years later in 1972. A group that was later derisively referred to as "The Zero Corps" started in 1969 but was dismissed by Wierwille in under a year. It is unclear whether this group was called "The Way Corps" at the time they were together. The WOW program was announced at the end of summer school 1971 during a weekend festival/celebration later referred to as the first Rock of Ages Festival*. Wierwille announced that the program was starting, then brought them back for "training" some time later (perhaps in October, not 100% sure). This first group of WOWs ended their year at the second Rock of Ages in August 1972. A group called the "pilot WOWs", which included Donnie Fugit as well as less than a dozen others were sent out previous to the so-called "first wave" of WOWs following the 1971 ROA. I believe that this took place in the spring & summer of 1971. * In looking back through my old Way Mags a few years ago, I noticed that the first "Rock of Ages" was simply the music portion of a weeklong celebration of the end of summer school and was referred to throughout the Way Mag articles as a Summer Youth Advance featuring "The Return of the Rock of Ages"

I've long thought that the centralizing of "leadership" responsibility in the Way Corps was the big mistake that killed the grass roots and organic growth in favor of controlled and regimented growth. But I can see where the WOW program would have the same effect. I think both the institution of the Way Corps and the start of the WOW program are both symptoms of Wierwille's need to control

Presenting the then-current Trustees as deviating from Wierwille's idealized path was probably the only approach that would have had any affect on the Wayfers of that day. Even the paper that Lynn, Dubofsky et al put out attacked the issues within TWI from the point of view of having deviated from what Wierwille taught.