Oakspear

Are you asking if the KJV was a cover up? If so, then, no, he's called "The Christ", which is translated from Messiah. What is your evidense that the word spirit "should be new nature"?

I was in a couple of Way Homes in 1979-80. In the first one, the coordinator was a heavy drinker who pretended that he had a job that he went to each day. He was also the Way Home treasurer, which meant that all the rent and utility money went to pay for his drinking. We discovered what he was doing when one of the other ay Home inmates was home sick from work and found that the phone was dead. She went to the corner pay phone, called the phone company and found that we had been cut off for non-payment. Same with heating oil, electricity and rent. We confronted him on it. He swore he'd get a job and pay it all back, so we gave him a second chance, but got the leadership to remove him as coordinator. He paid us back with rubber checks so we threw him out and got yelled at by leadership for being unloving and for making decisions without checking with them first. Mid-year I moved into another Way Home where the coordinator there was also a heavy drinker, albeit not the treasurer, and he actually had a job. He was verbally abusive and had several coercive sexual encounters with women in the twig. WOW year 1980-81 the coordinator wasn't a heavy drinker, but hit on both WOW sisters and any other woman who got near him. His "job" was to put in a lawn at our rented home, for which the landlord would let him deduct money from the rent. He slept in every daty and killed the lawn. The landlord naturally wanted to be paid back, but the rent deductions had gone into the coordinator's pockets as his salary, so in effect the other 3 of us paid for him to live. Coordinator couldn't find a job for a while after that, so the 3 of us continued to support him. Eventually his father lent us some money to pay the rent. When we paid him back at the end of the year his dad gave the money to our coordinator, so we got screwed again. I was also in a couple of Way Homes in 1981-82 that were a lot better in that nobody was drinking the rent money, stealing from us or trying to screw everything that moved (figureatively or literally.

The Greeks had a three-in-one god concept? :huh: Where did you get that information? Nonetheless, breaks of some kind make it easier to read and follow. Probably not very well, since it was written initially in Greek. 'Lord' is generally translated from kurios, so 'Lord' is more or less correct. There's a perfectly good Greek word that is equivalent to 'Messiah' and that's Christos (Christ). What 'spirit teaching' are you referring to? What do you think it means?

The last time I saw Tina was sometime during the early 90's at an Advanced Class Special. She was still involved, but don't remember where she was living.

I had not heard of the context outside of TWI, but I googled it & found these links http://executableoutlines.com/ro2/ro12_16.htm http://www.yourrenewedmind.com/ http://www.seegod.org/the_renewed_mind.htm

You know, any other organization would be letting folks know what's going on, be proud of their mission, yet something like this, apparently a big deal, is nowhere to be found on their website. Sections on "What's New" and "Current Events" have nothing new or current. :blink:

I think it's destruction that pride goes before and it's a haughty spirit that precedes a fall. Just sayin'

The WOW pin was one of the last things that I got rid of. I think that I dumped it and all my old name tags the same weekend. One thing that I probably would have kept was my Corps Spoinsorship ring: silver with carved leaves and a dove on it. But I lost it at a Weenie Roast. During the late 90's, after the WOW program had been scrapped in favor of the Way Disciple program, we were told that wearing a WOW pins was "old wineskins" and was therefore discouraged. That made me want to wear it more. Old green advanced class nametags were frowned on too.

I don't remember being "wined & dined" before taking the class, or any change after taking it. The local branch had already gotten their quota together when I started showing up and I felt no pressure one way or the other. However I did see this behavior later on in the TWI timeline.

The WayGB reminder got deleted because I tried to post another, more recent picture and I couldn't get it to come out right. Anyway, I recognize Kevin, vest man and the woman in between the two of them, as well as the girl in the yellow sweater (my girlfriend at the time). I'm not sure how anonymous they want to be, so I'm not sayin'. Kevin and I took PLAF (The Wonder Class) together about a year before this picture was taken. The others I have no recollection of. Kevin, is that the Kew Gardens Way Home or the Queens Village Way Home?

uxorious One entry found. Main Entry: ux·o·ri·ous Pronunciation: \ˌək-ˈsȯr-ē-əs, ˌəg-ˈzȯr-\ Function: adjective Etymology: Latin uxorius uxorious, uxorial, from uxor wife Date: 1598 : excessively fond of or submissive to a wife — ux·o·ri·ous·ly adverb — ux·o·ri·ous·ness noun well yeah...but not back then

Many people, whether in a church situation or out of it, shrink away from any responsibility or "leadership". It really has nothing to do with how much work is involved or how hard it is or how much support there is, some people just don't seem wired to be in charge. With some people it is a fear that they will be "stuck" with all the work, with others it equates to a committment that they just don't want to make. Still others work jobs where they have responsibility as a manager or supervisor and don't want what they perceive as stress outside of work. It's all about the individual perception of being a supervisor, rather than the reality of what is actually being expected.

I think it's fairly likely that whoever translated sheol as hades didn't fully understand one or the other of the two concepts (assuming of course that sheol does mean an unconscious state of the dead). The Septuagint is, in some places, translated beautifully and idiomatically, while in others it's a poor translation indeed. It would have been very easy to transliterate "sheol" rather than translate it inaccurately. After all, isn't that what they did with "gehenna"?

Good to see ya Zix baby!

We have a winner! There's not as much hair under the hat these days as there was in that picture.

Oh, no secret...I use a handle, but I've never hid my real name, T0m J0yce.

HmmmmmmThere are about 30 posters who have actually seen me in the flesh...but I have changed in 30 years

I received this picture in the email this week. Can anyone guess which one of those handsome lads is me? If you're in the picture, speak up!

It's a spiritual ring!

I won't dispute that what you've got there is the biblical use (or at least one interpretation of a biblical use) of those words. But what I don't understand is if that's true, why did the biblical author use words to mean one thing, when the popular understanding of those words was something else? Hades was not an unconscious state of the dead, but a conscious place where the dead went after "life". It was an underworld ruled over by a god of the dead/underworld. Tartaros was a section of Hades, or below Hades where post-death puishment is meted out. (As opposed to the Elysian Fields, kind of like a pagan Roman paradise or heaven). Gehenna is a Greek rendering of a Hebrew word and concept.

Are we seriously discussing a purported recording of hell? :blink:

Just before I was thrown out they confronted me with printouts of many of my posts. Keeping the household clean and pure doncha know?

In the dominant culture where women had no rights, and were the property of their husband or father, the submitting to one's own husband seems positively liberal and liberating! Kind of like the verses that admonish masters to treat their slaves well. Both have to be looked at in light of the culture 2000 years ago and not in light of U.S. culture of 2009, IMHO. The verses shouldn't be used to justify subservience of women any more than others should be used to justify slavery. While I'm on the subject, why does either partner need to be the "CEO"? There are things that my wife takes the lead in, and I defer to her, because she's better at it; the areas where she defers to me has nothing to do with me being a male, but it's areas where I'm better. We discuss issues where we disagree and try to come to a consensus or agreement; nobody has "the deciding vote", we're a partnership.

I always got the impression that being a Trustee was a lifetime position until you decided that you'd had enough and wanted to retire. When Martindale became the focus of a lawsuit, he talked about changing the way things were structured, separating out the positions of adminstrative head and principal teacher. That may be what they ended up doing, since Rivenbark hardly ever teaches, yet no one is the "principal" teacher. He also talked about making the position of Trustee an assignment klike any other Corps assignment, with a limited term. This does not seem to have happened. Rivenbark has been President/Chairman for 9 years now, although there has been some change in the rest of the board. I'm reasonably sure that Wierwille chose his brother, Howard Allen, DW and Ermal, as well as Martindale. I would guess that Martindale selected Rivenbark. After that it's somewhat unclear. Who actually decided that Rivenbark would replace Martindale? I would be very surprised if it wasn't It seems like Geer was running the show during the late 80's and that the Truistees were figureheads, jumping to do Geer's bidding. At any time during TWI's existance, I would guess that the President called the shots as the MOG with the other two rubber-stamping, or at best advising.

There's some difference in dates, but I think Skyrider's are correct, DW and Howard did not leave the same year. When I was involved during the 90's TWI sold a "Trustee Household" poster which pictured all the Trustees and their spouses, but excluded Caballero & Townsend.