Grizzy

I don't recall a time that the unsaved were doomed to eternal torment from TWI teachings. Now the seed debate, seems it takes seed to get instant heaven and seed to get eternal fire.....

4 years????? really???? Sometimes it seems like yesterday and other times like a whole lifetime ago!!!!!!!! Oh the joy to breath freedoms fresh air!!!!! Congrats to John and you and many more happy years!!!!!!

Refiner is here to start a new rejection epidemic.................. WB Refiner

The incredible shrinking font!!!!!!! :P--> Or Honey, Paw has shrunk the font!!!! Maybe this will appeal to the younger generation........ its just about out of *sight* for me!!!!!!! :D-->

No Mark I am not a candidate for Momentous. But I am also not in a position to turn people away from it either. I would say Steve Lortz is in a very good position to advise from his experience and think its interesting Evan and Ex10 have good things to say about it but not running around promoting it. Would you with your lack of personal knowledge be right to tell someone to stay away from Momentous if it would turn out to be good for that person? Better safe than sorry huh? TWI-2ers, how much of this stuff seems familiar from WC tactics used under the LCM reign of terror? What about those that had to trace their weakness back to where it began, sins of a life-time. I personally would rather focus on the Savior from sin than on the sins committed. But I have learned to allow others to do what they feel is best for their lives and to live as they see fit. We become what we look at, (IMHO) but I have seen some that couldn’t *become* because something in their minds from the past held them back. If momentous allowed such a break through; well then praise God for that persons break through!

Simon, sorry to confuse...........but Zix got it right. As far as Chuck is concerned I liked the guy from time chatting with him. I sorta feel he has fallen into the wrong crowd. A group that is known for causing trouble and then running and whining and demanding the moderators apply the rules their way and when they don’t its favoritism. But Chuck does have a history of going *beyond* and when called on it he has played the victim card, different reasons for different times.

There is no dealing with someone that truly believes Zixar has the magical ability to get someone banned from this site. Bet they soiled themselves when Satori showed up over there! But don’t get me wrong, I am glad they found a new playground for them to continue their elementary school shenanigans on. They claimed all sorts of things such as favoritism, the rules and so forth worked against them. Now they have a (cough) level playing field, what will their excuse be? And yes the victim card, played frequently over the years by that same poster. How unfortunate the death of a brother is used that way......................

No time to look back, Yanga.( sorry because I forgot the whole nick) is the 3rd. No disrespect for Steve, My Mark.......... you sure seem to think you can read between the lines, but you always fail at it....... But, if something were to aide someone's life; would you still be right by saying its bad?????

Interesting to note that we have what? 3 witnesses that are *pro* and one that is *con* about their Momentous experience. Humans are that way......... different! :D--> People that are *anti* also have a tendency to exaggerate. Possibly a defense mechanism which is understandable, not that any of those that have actually gone through the program and posted here have done this. Crusaders seem to do this as they battle what they are convinced is evil and destructive. But, what is digging at the back of my mind is questioning talking someone out of participating in a program that may benefit them. Wonder how the *pro’s* would feel if they never did the deed because someone talked them out of it. Its kind of like football, there is a danger of getting hurt by participating. The Dr.’s that point this out and have the stats to prove their points are considered nothing more than quacks by true professionals. Might be because there are risks to any endeavor worth pursuing that has possible long-term benefits. The dangers are not just physical, coaches can be pretty mean and abusive!!!!!! Just some things to think about................... Thanks Evan and Ex10!!!!!!!!!

I would really appreciate some more specific testimonies from the people that have taken Momentous, both pro and con. This is not from an arrogant, accusative position or intended to ridicule, slight or put down any contributions to this thread. It may be to hard to be specific, or possibly too personal to be shared. Reading what harm the program did and comparing to what good others came away with could help us make a better judgement concerning the program.

I never heard of *em*......... Heard about WC doing those 15 min blocks, never heard that term......... Maybe this means I wasn't *in* as long as I thought and it is just a bad dream from the *90's*,,,,,,,,,,, :D-->

I wanna know when Steve! was on my street corner and why he didn’t stop and chat???? ( did he donate?????) THE END IS NEAR :P-->

That is one of the most profound statements I have read in a very long time! Seems kind of odd that we have the testimonies of two people that have actually taken the course and while they don’t recommend it for everybody they also say they are glad they did it. Compared to what? Before one can claim that something like Momentous breaks up marriages those marriages would have to be proven as strong working relationships before they ran the course. How can anyone accept the testimony of a disgruntled user without first knowing the *state* of the relationship from an objective view? I seriously don't doubt the only place a strong vital marriage lived before Momentous caused a divorce was in the mind of the complainer. Because true scientific research has documented the only thing worse than cults is the anti-cult cults and those degree carrying experts or fighters if you will. Worse than that are those that claim they can speak from a position of authority while they base their opinions on what they have read or gathered from talking to those that have to have cults to make their livelihood from disgruntled followers when they exit of are forced to exit. This is the information age folks, about any subject can be well researched. So if someone is dumb enough to take a self-help crash course without investigation, or for that matter not take it based on reports of the *anti’s*, they get what they deserve!

You couldn't even pay my way and get me to go to St. Louis, been there done that and wouldn't take the freaking T-shirt!!!!! Some place worth seeing and I would gladly take you on, and your 2 or three witnesses....... this jr high or what??????

There is a lot more history to JAL........ JAL spent one year in residence and was known as recognized corps. I think he had been limb leader of Indiana before that. He later became Northeast Region Leader, and New York limb leader. One thing to remember is that he was always center stage, main stage. When LCM left Emporia and went to headquarters JAL left New York and started being *the* corps coordinator, I think he began this when the 10th was in residence. For a period he traveled on TWI’s nickle and preached all the evils of TWI, maybe just a short time, but kind of strange he did. I saw him recruiting at a ROA, walking around with no name tag yet looking for WC name tags and having nice conversations with the *properly* tagged people........

Yeah Know....... I don't really don't care for JAL, Mark&Mark or CES or what ever they want to be called. But I sure like some of the folks that do!!!!! HI JEFF!!!!!!!!! ((((((((((((((EX10)))))))))))))) give them their space anti-cult NAZIS!!!!!!!! :D-->

Oh.........ever so complicated!!!!!! :D--> Perhaps when it gets e-mailed to the moderators it can then be considered *open* and placed for all to see Except for any I sent by mistake that is.......... :P-->

but the ice water sounded good about now Garth

Garth........ cold throw???? does that mean we have to sit in ice water before we get the boot??????? :D-->

Of course Zix, Bush will be blamed!!!! :D-->

It has to be either up or down, staying the course is not an option? As long as there comes along an occasional new poster, or for that matter a lurker to the caf?it is doing quite well. Perhaps just a state of *being* so that those looking at the lil defanged cult from the cornfields of Ohio can read is serving its purpose more than anyone can know. This place and WayDale before has had cycles, times with nothing but in fighting and times of excited new posters, but I have to admit this recent cycle is,,,,,,,,,,,huh........to say the least one of the strangest I have seen. I would like to kick out this thought for consideration, that being as the forum About the Way seems to some what die out from time to time, it might be indicating people are moving ahead and losing interest in their former life. That is a very good thing IMHO; and shows this joint is working and having an affect on people!!!!!!!! Jen-o..............please don’t take just one side of the story; if you are upset or have questions get a hold of Paw. I have meet one of the posters you mention and I don’t just automatically turn on Paw because of my personal interaction with that poster. Heck I like the guy but also know Paw doesn’t fly off the handle and can easily be worked with................

Thanks Cherished Child! And Thanks lindyhopper! JT, you are correct that no one has said anything bad about the innie being dated. Weout, I left TWI-2, in 1999. You see that many of the innie teens and young adults are very fine and fun humans. If I was dating one and came here and asked as nameless has, then compared many of the extreme *run* posts with the awesome person I was dating, guess what I would decide? Kind of like how the majority of ex-cult exports are so over the top they so overkill their stuff is rejected by recruits and members. Now getting people well informed about the lil defanged cult allows them to make well informed decisions. Fear motivation works, but usually only for a short period of time. I believe that is still the biggest reason people are pulling up stakes and leaving the sacred walls of Zion. Now, if a person was asking about joining TWI so they could marry one of these great youngins, my tune would change! But then it is always a 50-50 chance as far as if one would be recruited or if the other one would leave. I get the biggest kick reading things posted by P-Mosh and Lindy all the time here. (Not that I ever agree with Mosh) Many TWI kids are very intelligent, very bright and very caring! Heck all my cubs left before this ole bear finally woke-up and knowing my cubs the way I do; that got me thinking!

Thank-you........Thank-you,,,,,,,,, so many of my favorites and Hairy toooooooo!!!!!!!! :P--> OK Shell................it is starting out to be quite nice, clear, mild breeze and 66 degrees, :D--> And yes I am very thankful Ex........

Sometimes I wonder if we haven’t become what we abhor, or even worse. Like while being a smoker and hating running into the hard-core ex-smokers. OMG!!!! You are dating what?????? An innie............ don’t ya know that they are only evil and only want to suck you into their horrible decrepit cult!!!! As if there are no real decent kids left in that organization and there is no possibility of having a great social relationship with someone who’s greatest sin was being born into a group like that! Or, their family joined while they were young. Nameless; date, enjoy have a great time! If love follows then you will have to make some hard decisions, or the TWI kid will have to. They are not in more control than say dating a JW kid, or an RC or a Mormon. Would all you *run* freaks prevent your children from dating any of these types? Heck I have seen parents here with kids not old enough to be sexual decide they are gay and the parent support that. But, an innie kid is like the spawn of Satan? OK,ok; but the WGB could also be behind this type of thing, if not behind still quite able to use this as fuel to keep some in. See those former members are so out to lunch they see your children as being nothing but evil! I know that is not being said, it could however be easily argued that is what is behind what is being said. I was denied dating certain girls I liked and liked me because I was Mormon, on top of that I was denied dating certain Mormon girls because I wasn’t from the right Mormon family. If I were to deny one of my cubs, or oppose their dating someone based on race, what would I be?? We are the *ex* group and at times I feel we should take the higher road because we know better than anyone the low road they take. So, nameless; enjoy the person and keep your eyes open to the organization. Dating is...well.......dating! I sure would hate to find out my cubs were denied dating someone they were interested in because of their lack of involvement or involvement to a group. Rant over :D-->

Actually Refiner, there are many Christians in China, unfortunately many die there as they won’t denounce Christ, The land was promised to Abraham, maybe the nations living there when Joshua went in were nothing more than illegal squatters bent of the prevention of the promises coming to pass. I made comments about being more loving or what was the loving thing to do in some citations. But then I started thinking about my Father. He had been a hunter and fisher as well as a farmer, over the years he lost any and all interest in any activities that might inflict pain on animals. He was a very kind hearted and loving man, even to the animals on the farm. One of my uncles told the story of long before I was born Dad’s dairy herd got bangs and had to be put down, the whole herd. My uncle volunteered to do the dirty deeds for Dad, but my Dad said it wasn’t easy, pleasant or kind, but was necessary. It was necessary or all herds down river would die from it. So Dad shot the bull, all the cows and even the calves and dug a huge pit with a dozer, pushed them in and buried them. Because of their choice to take and live on lands that were not theirs to take, those nations made it necessary to be removed. Because they wouldn’t just go away and leave the Christ line alone so all men could have the chance to reconciled and would constantly strive to wipe out Israel, it became necessary to end their time on the earth. But, this is the only time in history this was for lack of a better word, sanctioned. The time during which the very coming of Christ hinged on the survival of a people the promise had been given to. There is now the truth that all men come from one blood and are the same, why? Because the redemption of man has been accomplished and it is up to individual men and women to accept or reject. Without the bible, or even knowledge of the bible there has been historically tribes wiping out each other through out history.