Grizzy

I wouldn’t be so soon to classify TWI as a ravenous animal attacking everything and anything they can. I wouldn't be so quick to jump on the band-wagon that their lawyers jump at their command because they wave some $$$$$ at them. That law firm has a very good reputation to keep. This keeps them in the big bucks and TWI is a small client to them. Rosie can snap her fingers, but they don’t jump. Only after well researched investigation will they hang their firm’s name on a suit. Frivolous lawsuits just wouldn’t be accepted. A seriously wounded predator is the category I would place TWI in. Very dangerous, whose nature is to easily rip prey apart. But, being wounded it will only strike were it smells blood, where it can be just short of guaranteed a feast that comes with a victory it can proudly display...........

You know oldies, you have a point. Take walking up to someone on the street and tell them to jump off a cliff. They will look at you like you’re nutz!!!!! But take someone and mentor them, make sure that they spend possibly years believing you have their best interest in mind. Slowly introduce the liberty in Christ that allows those spiritual enough to jump off the cliff. By gawd cliff jumping is the ultimate in service to the lord, dontchaknow! But that is still ridiculous because people don’t have a built in natural drive to go jump off of cliffs. Now what about sex? Everyone grows and develops a natural sex drive. It is not such a far fetched analogy to get someone following your *leadership* 24/7 in service to God Almighty while at the same time break down the good morals they had learned and been brought up with. Slowly, erode their good morals by placing a new set of morals in their heads. Sex with a MOG is the moral and right thing, ultimate service to God! Sure all this didn’t work with everyone, we have witnesses to that, the seed was sown, the pruning done; yet when faced with do it or.................. they didn’t fall for it. But then there are others that bought it all hook-line and sinker! Some to this day bought it and would still be promoting it had LCM not been forced out. You know it would better for the perpetrators of this doctrine of devils to have a mill stone attached to their............uh.......privates and cast into the sea!

I am just totally miffed! All this crap has double standards written all over it and you think you *know* me and my intents. A wall has more charisma and holds better conversation. I asked for proof, which you can’t or won’t document your claim they came after you for personal reasons rather than you opened a legal avenue for them. Then you think that you can dictate which way this suit will go, that all concerning TWI will be open season for you, but all you will be safe and protected. TWI’s lawyers will not pu$$yfoot around with you and will go for the juggler immediately. Read their complaints, carefully for a change; what is one of the major points they are making? You used their mark to attract traffic to your site and collect donations. They will demand all financial records, you don’t keep them, be prepared to be ordered to get them. They will demand your site to become an open book to their lawyers and the court. Maybe a judge will stop that, but if they won’t are you prepared if it happens? Your judgement continually is at the least clouded concerning my intentions and it has proven that way numerous times with other people that disagree with you. What about other people that may be dragged into this or suffer negative consequences because of your action? Come on, you are named, your little business is named and where was the page posted that allowed donations? You are studying for a math text to show up and find out it is a history test....... What is that old saying? Better to lose a battle to win a war. Or how about it is better to live to fight another day.

Absolutely, my bad. The biggest mistake was to think that you might have actually done something smart to protect your work and the work of all your contributors. What is more important to you? Being *right* and not *bullied* by TWI or the work that you and all those involved in that *we* you use? Courts are very risky business and there are to many variables of law and in the courts to know the out come. You are gambling, rolling the dice and what is at stake? What proof do you have that it was personal when they came after you? Or is that just another of your wild assumptions? Also, what steps have you taken to protect your contributors and donors?

Naive? Are you that delusional to think that TWI hates you and has it out for you more than all the other sites that expose them? Why haven’t they gone after this site, empire.net or your pal? What about JAL and CES, a simple search and what pops up first? Unless you have some other reason they have gone after you other than their lawyers believed there was a chance to win over the way of Christ mark issue, you just might be suffering from an over inflated ego and not everyone is going to let you blow smoke up their skirt and buy it. TWI has staff that constantly monitor web sites, for what? Just to see what is being said? Ridiculous! They also look for any possible way to legally bring a stop to those sites. You backed off the way of Christ domain, smart move. Then you gave lame excuses for changing the ex-way site to ex-cult, but that was also a smart move. But then you activate The Way International domain and link it to your site. Just asking for trouble! Cry, whine, and scream about your rights and being in the right; because of this martyr complex you always conclude is behind disagreements and court cases cripples your ability to think critically and makes you an easy mark! TWI is going after you because your actions have given them legal reasons, get over yourself!

Eagle, The money point is not about people donating thinking it would be going to TWI. Collecting donations on a site that uses or used someone else’s legal name to attract traffic crosses the line from questionable practice into illegal. Then to place that domain name up for sale, according to what Paw posted a while back on that other thread has crossed the legal lines again. This is not about TWI having a personal agenda against the defendant, that is a ridiculous claim. This is about a person’s personal agenda against TWI that thought they were being smart by taking that domain name then using it against them. Once the line was crossed by collecting donations and offering that domain name up for sale, this was placed into TWI’s court. The argument does not stand that this is personal because of it is only his site they are going after. His site is the only one they can go after because of his actions. His right to freedom of speech was forfeited when he chose to use a domain name they could contest. The name The Way of Christ would have never been contested had it strictly been used for anything but an anti-way site. As far as all of us filing suit, I have better things to do with my time and money than to cry over spilt milk. If someone has a legitimate case, by all means go for it! But, picking fights is not a wise way to live IMHO. Especially when the person picking the fight does it in a manner they have no chance of winning..........

Eagle, When a person or parties have legitimate legal cases against TWI, I am all for it. But despite what I think, my opinion of a group; I fully support the freedoms we are granted by our constitution. Freedom of worship is a very big deal to me, as freedom of speech and the right to arm bears! Black and white cultic thinking is repulsive to me. The inability to logically and constructively think thinks through while claiming intelligence and a well rounded knowledge makes me cringe and reminds me of snow jobs I should have seen coming but swallowed hook, line and sinker. You mentioned the fact the finances were posted on that site. So, what part does the money play in this whole she-bang? TWI points out the ability to collect $$$ on the site, and that their domain name was used to direct people to where they could donate to someone other than TWI. What do you think TWI lawyers first move will be? How about full disclosure of finances and all contributors? How about the names of all involved with the site? How far is the owner willing to go to defend these things? Sure easy to say in no way will I ever hand that info over! Or what if there has been no money exchanged? Further more when did the ability to collect the $$ show up on the site? Anyway, a few months of jail can easily change the conviction of a person. Especially when that person hasn’t tried lock-up for an extended period of time. So to protect the identity of people, it is easily forfeit or contempt of court and TWI wins. If their legal strategy goes that way and I do believe their track record indicates it will. But there is also the possibility any contributors would be supportive of full disclosure if this strategy is prepared for. But back to cultic thinking, the black and white type. Do you think TWI owns the Way JC? They would answer, of course not silly; but we do own the rights to the name The Way International and you knew it from the years you spent involved.

Eagle, What, trying to deceive TWI by giving the *appearance* of unity here????? Majority of all the counter claims and counter suit fall under the heading of opinions IS TWI a Christian outfit? Only by crossing the lines of freedom of worship and separation of church and state, plus setting a mandate by making a legal definition of Christian and/or Christian group would any judge ever rule on this. VPW’s degree, they can produce documentation he did the work. To say that Pikes Peak was a paper mill is an opinion. Granted that it is an opinion that may be based on facts. Problem with this is that the court would have to declare all degrees null and void from that institution to find in favor of this. Corps Chalet was used for a short period of time for the purpose it was built. TWI owned it and had every legal right to change the use because of the need at that time. Moral and ethical? Nope, but if they used it for one night to allow some visiting WC no one can prove they built it with the intent to be LCM’s family home. But then this case is about using their name to direct traffic to a site against them. There may be 40 some places using variations of their *mark* in northern Ohio, but only one web site that used that name to get the *truth* out. But a majority of that *truth* is all based in opinions also. So, Eagle; you asking the posters here to act like them?????????

LCM running things????? :P--> Hehehehehehe.......................people I have talked to that have left this millennium say he hadn’t been running anything for years. They say Donna and Rosie have been in control from the early 90's on. How else did Rosie get crowned queen and Donna *special* assistant??????? :D-->

Why does this remind of a court case a couple I know went through? The ex-husband had one great case built showing years of lies and deception, a very reputable and over paid lawyer. When they appeared in court and his legal representation started to show all they had against the couple, well; dang if the judge just didn’t say this case is not about the couples history or credibility! Now if you have no legitimate arguments why this court shouldn’t find in favor of the plaintiffs, then sit down and shut-up!

My guess as to why the newer editions have more value on E-Bay would be curiosity. Can’t you just hear them, “honey, take a look at this! There is a new versions of the blue-book, wonder what they changed now? Let’s get that sucker and see what they did to it!!!!” There are numerous groups out there, some small and isolated and others networked together. Many are run by early WC, and they keep and move PFAL and those materials. Many see themselves as *guardians* and *watchmen*, they would just have to jump on something like this to see what *they* did to their ministry and the materials. Hey, like OM they have memories of a great thing. If it trips their trigger who am I to judge?

Possessed? Of course!!!!! Be smart and pick your dominate spirit from he!! Me, I take that animal spirit over any!!!!!!!! :D--> Did not that great and powerful Oz, errrrr, I mean man of God for our day and time proclaim from the chair, oops, podium! All that walk away from the faithful household of the remnant, go beyond the walls of Zion, be out where there is crying and gnashing of teeth, or what ever, would be turned over to and possessed by debble spurts!!!!! But, though I am possessed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I ain’t near as bad off as most of y’all!!!!!!!!

Way back when, there were keggers after tc leaders meetings, well, most the time we waited till after the meetings. Then the suggested 2 drink limit for the WC which some how it seemed we went to bed and woke up and it was a mandate for all. Once again, unhappy WC decided to *share* the love with the rest of us or something.......... Then there was good ole Loy Boy hisself, proclaiming he never had been drunk, not once in all his life! He was the great and shining example of disciple and total self control! Just as his marriage was the example to be followed as the beacon of a Christian marraige! Must just been his *unit* that was out of control, you know had life of its own. He just *found* it others men’s wives, or something.............................. Yes!!!!!!!!! He was a god among men!!!!!!!!!!!

Gotcha Oak, TWI at minimum misrepresented JP’s position in their dealing with his mother. If they had also mishandled her personal belongings wouldn’t he have brought that up on his site? Or, the case may be that legally she didn’t own anything. While living under the shelter of a tax exempt charity, possibly the high life of cutting a fat hog costs in the long run. Without the separation of private property nothing is left to your heirs. Maybe this is why smarter operations set up and keep an heir in control one way or another...........

Oak, DUH???? :D--> Isn't that what I meant? all holdings went from Vic, Don and Howard to LCM, Don and Howard

Personally, if I was so durn curious about the private affairs of a particular woman and her children, I would just e-mail one of the children. JP had an e-mail address on his site, don’t know if his site is still up and running. I do remember that all of TWI’s property was signed over to the new BOT when LCM was installed. This included the ancestral home and was the reason behind the oath sworn before God and all to take care of the Mrs. The rest of her life. None of the children know me from Adam! So don’t even go there! This would be the polite and appropriate way to approach this subject. But then some in the *drive* to *expose* forget common decency while attempting to charge windmills.......

LCM taught the WC anything concerning a king in the OT could be read as written to WC...... mid to late 90's that was the WC teaching. PFAL, all the women belonged to the king......... LCM to the WC.............. you are the king do we need Eienstein to find the sum???? .

Storing shine?????????? --> Must be a yankee............... :D-->

Let’s see, this all reminds me of something........ Oh yeah! There was a woman taken in adultery and when her accusers were confronted by the only sinless man that as ever lived saying “ let him without sin cast the first stone.” Danged if even the Pharisees didn’t just shut up and walked away. Hmmmmmm, Pharisees showing more decency?????? OM, how do you look that man in the eyes looking back at you in the mirror?

A group has sworn in public to provide for your mother all the days of her natural life. When she starts to have some serious health issues, you and your siblings have to step in because they are not providing the level of care her health condition requires. Then the group sends out letters stating that you and your siblings are all in agreement about the care choices you were forced to make because of their neglect. Because the group went public, you decide to go public and let everyone know you do not want the group to misrepresent what happened by placing your name or making statements such as *all* implying you agree. Not rocket science, IMHO, mission accomplished......

going.......going.............gone!!!!!!!! its a homerun Charlie Brown :D-->

Insurgent, I’ve been out since *99* and those lines of bs go back to when I lived in WY, left there in *92*. Nothing new under the TWI scum is there????? Counter it, since JS and JN have been mentioned perhaps look at those two groups and where they stand on the subject of sex. Both groups have come out publically against the practice. JS’s group has written articles against the practice and the group JN associates with has members that have testified in courts and done even more than that against TWIs practices. You know that bible TWI likes to talk about so much says something about Godly sorrow leads to repentance. If a leader knew and/or partook in the putrid fruit and has not only stopped, but went public taking a *stand* against it, who deserves more respect? The group that denies any thing but a one time affair or the men that have spoken out and even testified in a court of law? If VPW was so innocent, why does the very group he founded all but deny his existence? Look at their web site and find him! I mean come on, even Peter and Paul quoted and acknowledged men that spoke *old wine-skins*! Why can’t they bother to bring up their own founder??? But the sex scandal stuff is only one piece of the horrid puzzle. How many of us M&A’d friends or family as they were put out to pasture by TWI? How many of us did the dirty deed for the leaders and told some child of the Most High they were unworthy to *fellowship* with the remnant? As I have posted before, when I laid in bed thinking about what a great hard @$$ I was and suddenly the thought followed that I was back to where I had started and worked so hard to get away from, I knew it was time to leave. So maybe not all were taught to be sexual perverts, however it was next to impossible to escape participation to some degree while walking in the Promised Land of the Perverts Word.......................

No Goey, Didn’t mean to imply you said that or implied that. I just thought that if I believed all WC knew of this twisting of the scripture, or just the 6th corps, or for that matter a distinct group that we could put our fingers on; then I would believe that in that particular group there would be no good Christians. It was just a question and that is how I came about it. Excath, The underbelly comment was not pointed at the abused, rather the abusers and those that aided in the abuse. It has been documented some women as well as men took part, with great *joy* in *winning* others to bless the MOGs.

Ex10, I also hear you loud and clear. I am trying to just make the point that even when attempts to uncover the garbage were done, it was quite easy to put the lid back on it. That is if you happened to be some what removed and your local WC didn’t buy the message or chose not to go against the flow, they found easy ways discredit the message and the messengers. The classic was and always will be “ I knew and worked very close to VP and never saw such activities, if this is so true why didn’t anyone stand up when he was alive?” “ Now that he is gone some of the very ones that abused their authority are using their own abuse as leverage to gain power and take over the ministry or have an instant one of their own”. Now we know that some did try to take on VP, thanks to WayDale, and what happened to the ones that did. We also know why many didn’t speak right up when they were approached to learn to *bless the MOG*. Goey, What is it, you think that all WC were privy and there wasn’t one good honest decent Christian among them? Perhaps it was opposite of what you are thinking, the majority were what they claimed to be and a small select group was the underbelly of TWI.

OLM Socks! When the LC jumped on it and took the time to call us’n lil tc’s I really thought some rather overly horny singles were looking for justification for what they had been doing any way. I hadn’t thought much about it until WayDale did some exposing. There was a tc meeting with in a few months and some of us joked about the *need* thing, this had to be in 80-81, any way it was suggested it was some one traveling with, turned out not to be *in* the band. But, this slippery doctrine was always like this. It appeared to be none sanctioned, whenever it cropped up it was soon shot down. When the big public exposure hit just before the mass exodus, some of the finger pointers did have fingers pointing back at themselves. It wasn’t that hard to write it off as bull, far removed from HQ out on the field......