Grizzy

Lorna,,,,, so I was in IL from 93-96, maybe we meet. God Bless America; SIZE> Grizz SIZE>

Lindy and Oak are really onto something!!!!!!!! Take the car and only travel back-roads, you know thw two lane highways that are takin me my way.........or get your kicks on route 66!! Do you know why MT is called big sky country? If you drove through and get off the main routes at night and stop get out and look up, you will know. That and some of the mountains in WY are fabulous! Grandkids with heads looking straight up in awe........... priceless!!!!! Add them critters off howling in the distance, something most cities kids never seen or heard, yet my childhood nights were almost always that wonderful! You know there is a fabulous real American and real Americans living away from the hype and tourist traps!!!!!! God Bless America; SIZE> Grizz SIZE>

:D--> :P-->Funny how both those posts look like the work of one perpetrator!!!!!!!!!! God Bless America; SIZE> Grizz SIZE>

note to (((((Anna))))) check who's name you are posting under -->...God Bless!! God Bless America; SIZE> Grizz SIZE> [This message was edited by Grizzy on December 23, 2003 at 21:20.]

Happy B-Day Holly!!!!!!!!! Now that you are 7 tell Mom that you are fine and independent, ready to write when you find work and make it on your own!!! But you will gladly wait a decade or so if Mom will show up at the café more often!!! :D--> I still chuckle when I think about WayDale had a troll that posted with a holly name and your Mom went around and around messing with us in chat when we were talking troll and she was talking you!!!!!!!!! God Bless America; SIZE> Grizz SIZE>

Oakspear, Laleo and a few others have touched on this subject and reminded me of that book the Subtle Power of Spiritual abuse. Simply put, when someone has a problem with spiritual abusers and take the problem to them, the abusers always turn that person into the problem. Read the open letter again, Harv could have saved us a lot of time by just saying JP is the problem. If you have not read that book, get your hands on a copy! God Bless America; SIZE> Grizz SIZE>

Seems that nothing rattles the Way tree better than its founders name starting to expose their true nature............. There would be no letter from HQ if the name on that website was any other........ God Bless America; SIZE> Grizz SIZE>

So, where was it ever implied by JP to collect $$$$$$$$ for his mother?s care expenses????? I saw where a greasespot came up with that idea and now we see the implication by Harv JP really has a hidden motive. Harv,,,,,,,,,,,,,, when you polish a turd you know what you get all over yourself don?t ya?????????????? God Bless America; SIZE> Grizz SIZE>

Sorry Vickles, I just now saw your invite, sorry we missed the chance to meet. Guess I will check this corner of the cafe more often ......... CC..............si!!!!! or yabetcha,,,,,,don'tchaknow?????? what part of the land-o-lakes ya live in.... Mary Cate???????? I give;;;;;how long???? God Bless America; SIZE> Grizz SIZE>

:D-->......................John But Lindy needed warned :P--> God Bless America; SIZE> Grizz SIZE>

JEFF!!!!!!!!!!! great to see ya!!!!!!!!!!! God Bless America; SIZE> Grizz SIZE>

My God!!!!! I was at their wedding also........ Lived over west of there but had been WOW in Bloomington/Normal in 94...... God Bless America; SIZE> Grizz SIZE>

:D--> Garth its not the issue or sides of the issue I found great humor in, it was asking you of your well known position We agree more on this subject than disagree and I thought you knew that....... Grizzy COLOR>SIZE>

Hope, close. I think there is a point where people could check with people kind of like in real time and get some of the mud first hand from people that were abused. The images we built concerning certain people were easily checked against what they did to people we talked to. Now had I gotten out years ago where would I find people I knew that were abused so I could see the other side? Nameless posters posting accounts might be found hard to swallow when compared to real life experience. But when reports by several nameless posters are consistent with one another and collaborating and a person refuses to accept them; then the images one has have become more important than the honest testimonies being placed in plain view before God and every one. Think about it, with all the information that is available why would some one have to hold onto the picture perfect *image* they carry and dispute what they are reading over the rights of some one to tell their story and not revel who they are? Because the image is more important than the facts! Seaspray.........PFIL was the stepping stone for many to do godly things and for many to become tyrants. It is the same foundation that LCM built his abusive king of the kingdom doctrine and practice. Take this to another thread or take it outside! And finally Pat S....................................... are you sure there was a complete recovery from that head-on with that pick-up :D--> :D--> :D--> ROTFLMAO....asking Garth what he thinks about brain-washing!!!!!!!!!! :P--> just mention brain washing and watch him go --> Grizzy COLOR>SIZE>

You know Hope there is some advantage to when a person left that allowed us to see things more clearly than what let?s say someone leaving during the fog or before. People that left earlier and are just now looking around have their experience from being in Twi and all the good. Then they have what is easily seen as second hand reports from former followers and disgruntled leaders to compare what they knew and saw and really what they lived. Now, after I left and had some *images* of leaders I had known personally and had nothing but respect for; well the *images* turned out to be false. I can say that because I was able to get the other side of the story from people that saw the real or evil side to the same leaders. I think of yours and John?s dealings with your last RC and being able to see the stories of the lawsuit on WayDale and get in writing denials to knowing any thing from those last leaders you had. Make any sense? We have had the availability to look into things, while they may be second hand to us they are first hand from the people we have talked to. Like the former RC I had, he was nothing but gracious and fun to be around as was his wife. I really enjoyed my one on one time with the guy, getting my paws all dirty and greasy with him and enjoying some down to earth conversation. But, then I got the story of how a person I knew went to leaders with a question and this guy ran them through the dirt; digging up years of filth and second hand information to destroy their credibility. I also was able to talk to people in a court room that heard testimony from former clergy and how this guy denied and tried to discredit this former clergy. Then the RC did a great job of covering and damage control. But, if you left years ago with a Woodstock was beautiful memory it becomes almost impossible to see all the mud and disaster because you don?t trust who is calling it mud and you are not able to get fresh first hand reports from people that saw the real other side. Grizzy COLOR>SIZE>

Awwwww....but Dot, the present truth changed, see, LCM taught that Clay had a good fundamentalist up bringing so he was born again at an early age and then got possessed!!!!! See the devil just loves to use God's kids against the true God........... doubt that ask Loy!!!!!!!!! --> Grizzy COLOR>SIZE>

Hey Mr. Crown......... Thanks for the info you are posting here! Up and be more faithful with your ABS= show support for the BOT/BOD we need your $$$$ :P--> Outreach= show you support the BOD/BOT by getting new people to come and open their wallets...........the BOT/BOD needs their $$$$$$$$ :P--> Tax issues in fellowship= The BOT/BOD is getting the IRS breathing down their necks, quick change policy because the BOD/BOT needs to keep your $$$$$$$ you gave to them.... --> Thank-you please send $$$$$$$$$$ show your sold out commitment to the BOD/BOT You think they maybe are hurting for $$$$$$$$$ ??? --> I pray they are!!!!!!! :D--> Grizzy COLOR>SIZE> [This message was edited by Grizzy on February 17, 2003 at 18:43.]

While to those that left long before the announced World is over the world and never crossed into the Promised Land of the Prevailing World may have more fascination about things VPW and PFAL, even to those *in* they are really ancient history and dead for the most part. Perhaps Paw in all his ability and knowledge might be able to some how help find a way to balance out these things. What is a look at TWI without some history, but what possible history helps to catch the eye, mind of heart of some one now sitting behind the walls of Zion trying to decide what to do? What things are being posted that would allow those in to take a solid case to their spouse or other family members to show that the BOT/BOD of today are as much or even more evil than the past? The debate can be argued that things have changed and now they have a BOT/BOD worth trusting, after all they were never part of the problem. Oh they weren?t? Read the things posted on this thread and tell me that Rosie hasn?t single handed allowed, helped and covered for LCM and the others on the BOT/BOD are hand picked by her. What is going on in the Walls of Zion? Have the become legit and are now wonderful not just on stage Christians as they move into community involvement? How many ways can we argue the deity of VP and the source of PFAL? I am one that can almost predict accurately what responses and also what mono-debates of many of the posters that so easily get caught up in these things. Guess what guys and gals, you are wasting your breath as those that agree will agree and those that don?t will not be convinced! But while the spot light is *on* events of the past that are only subject to opinion the evil growing and manipulating from behind the curtain of the holy of holies at HQ enjoys freedom to do as they want because information is limited to the way things were at The Way! Tell you what, the Mormon?s history is far worse than TWI?s and they have been successful at moving beyond that and having success as being seen as legit! There is plenty, a down right abundance of info on the web to show there horrid past, but it being all history they easily distance themselves from it. When was the last time a leader in TWI castrated a young man so his fiancé could be the leaders? Yet because of the face they are able to present now few question and fewer look into their past before joining. TWI is going to slip through the cracks because of the over fascination of things long gone................................. Grizzy COLOR>SIZE>

Behind so much of everything is the desire to have control and that control so often boils down to who gets the money. Thus the good old standard denominations when they saw the youth that rebelled in the 60's in such masses were not returning to the churches of their parents and going with alternative choices had to do something, so the started screaming cult! There were abuses, but really were there that many more in what the *standard* branded cults than with in their own walls? I really don?t think so. But larger groups had and have the ability to do good PR work and intimidate and keep abuses swept under the carpet. But from out of these abuses was born and grew anti-cult cults and for the right amount of money a loved one could be forced to change by experts. Out of these barbaric and illegal methods while these self appointed experts operated mind bending control and yes the technics they describe as brainwashing they reprogrammed youth by deprogramming. Because the money was so dang good they had to adjust and give themselves legitimacy so they would not have to give all their new found wealth to that horrible cult known as lawyers. What bothers me the most is what they seem to be is the police of the major denominations that want you either worshiping in their endless feel good ceremonies, which is the only power they really can claim is that of emotional drivel, or the other choice is no worship at all. If a person decides to get out of line and leaves orthodoxy, for the right amount of money by gawd they can get them back! Now sit in our pew and behave, we have experts to get you back on track! And yes the T doctrine is a very important doctrine that determines who is allowed to play in the sand box of over controlled Christians that are allowed no power, or very little................. Grizzy COLOR>SIZE>

just move close enough and I got a bearclaw necklace for ya!!!!!!!! well within claw reach that is........... :P--> Grizzy COLOR>SIZE>

and the perfect wedding feast is right here :D--> :D--> :P--> :P--> Grizzy COLOR>SIZE>

WHO?????????????????? --> come on ya gotta tell us WHO!!!!!!!!!!!!! --> and WHEN??????????????? --> us'n furry critters will have to make it a national holiday and party down!!!!! :D--> A hillbillie getting some .............. attention ;)--> from a wimmin will now be more tolerable and even nicer to animals!!!!!!!!! :D--> Grizzy COLOR>SIZE>

somebody mentioned the tokens and that they would take that proof to the priests..... where is that account in the gospels, saw it many years ago and can't locate it for some reason right now....... Grizzy COLOR>SIZE>

I think that it was very obvious that Jesus was born several weeks if not months before Joe and Mary hit their nine month anniversary. Even in this day and age in many churches people count back from a birth to see if the woman *had* to get married. First one can come at any time, after that it takes nine months............. Grizzy COLOR>SIZE>

When is the last time you heard any thing concerning God being a god of individuals and dealing directly and meeting the needs of each person? Oh, I forgot its all now the good of the household always out weighs the need of the person. My Dad and I seldom saw eye to eye, but he did teach me to be my own man. Never just follow the crowd only to be part of the crowd. I lost that rugged individualism that was so carefully instilled in me and started slowly giving in and giving up myself starting in the early 90's as TWI turned. Part of the reason so many of us have fond memories of TWI-1 revolves around being allowed to be individuals and working to become the best *me* I could be. Teachings almost always seemed tailored specifically for me, and to tell you the truth even classes back then always seemed to open our eyes no matter how many times we had already been through them. The *root* at least gave the appearance of caring by sending visitors or coming to visit even remote states. Now what do you get for your time and money? Before I left in 99 I couldn?t remember the last teaching that blessed and didn?t condemn and that I wanted to take as personal. I began feeling guilty because my need wasn?t being meet and I would be damned to find enough time to work areas of the Word I felt were vital to me at the time. I couldn?t find the time because of the ridiculous study and fellowship already placed on us. Then the real killer came when we traveled all the way to Camp Gunnie to have EH re-teach the previous weeks STS!!! All that travel to hear the same ridiculous teaching and then given a small time frame for us all to go! You know God does work within a plan!!!! But the big news is it is according to His plan and us mere mortals need to follow that plan. It is designed specifically for you and it will actually bless you! And His plan doesn?t include having to drive for several hours listening to parrots parrot what a parrot parroted that wasn?t what you needed to hear when the bird taught it the first time. Be a man and stand for what you know is right.............................. (Not pointing at any one) Grizzy COLOR>SIZE>