Raf

News orgs are starting to pick this up: I just heard a report on NPR that sounds like it could have been written by the UCC staff (not even an attempt to contact CBS!) Turns out NBC has a policy against accepting religious advertising of any sort (I guess they lose out on the Mormon commercials). According to cnn.com, "A CBS spokesman confirmed that the ad was banned, but would not comment directly about the above statement. 'It was against our policy of accepting advocacy advertising,' said the spokesman."

Oh Holy Night and The Little Drummer Boy.

I have no doubt that gays and lesbians would not feel welcome at many mainstream churches, although they would be allowed in. But to think that blacks and Latinos would not feel welcome at many mainstream churches stretches credibility. I've been to churches in the South. I'm sure it happens, don't get me wrong, but it's not the norm. Far from it. Gays and lesbians - totally different story. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

What's objectionable? The implication that churches turn people away because they are brown, for one thing. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are some knuckle dragging churches where that happens, but the overwhelming majority of churches do not (and by that, I mean doctrinally). I think the first people turned away by the bouncers might be a gay couple, but I'm not sure. I agree with WordWolf that the last couple is probably lesbian. Nobody's kissing or holding hands, so there's nothing but honest speculation to base that on. I don't like the ad, but I'm surprised anyone would refuse to air it, especially considering that the networks routinely air newscasts where mainstream Christianity is treated with far greater malice than this ad suggests. === Quick correction after looking at the ad again: the first couple is gay. They're holding hands as they walk up to the bouncer. As for the last couple, one woman has her arm around the other: not conclusive, but certainly suggestive that they are a "couple."

Oh come on, Santa doesn't count. Cindy, judging by the comments on this thread, you will only like this movie if you see it in 3-D.

I can't imagine having seen this in 2-D, but I have to tell you that in 3-D it is an awesome, awesome ride. That scene in the beginning, with the emergency brake, man, you feel like that train is going to hit you right in the head! The snow, the dancing waiters, the roller coaster ride, the Forrest Gump effect with the lost ticket: I cannot tell you what a difference it made. You're absolutely right about the story: it fell flat. Nice ending, but my most fundamental test concerning a movie takes place three days later. Here's the test. Three days after you've seen a movie, any movie, name a character. If you can, it may well still be a lousy movie. Or it may be great. But if you can't, then I guarantee you it was a lousy movie. Or you have ADD. One or the other. I couldn't name a character in Polar Express if you paid me.

This is utterly inappropriate.

I can't say it better than that.

I am deeply saddened by this news. Deeply.

Planning to see it this week in 3-D on an Imax screen. Hopefully I'll enjoyu it despite satori's warning. :)-->

ckeer: Thank you for clearing that up. Much appreciated.

I've been saying this for years. People point to the "incorruptible seed" verse as proof that the holy spirit within is that seed, but that's not what the verse says. You're better off looking at Ephesians, where it's called a token of our inheritance, than this particular verse. Fascinating, is what it is.

Welcome Knuckles. Let me know if you need cream and sugar.

I used to have these bits of advice I would give to people, but then I stopped. I figured I would keep the advice to myself. No one ever gave me any money for my silence, though, so my answer would have to be no, I never got any money saving tips.

Cuz it ain't there. Not once. Not a single time. In fact, in teaching specifically on the subject of giving (II Corinthians), Paul spends a couple of chapters on the subject of giving, and not once does he mention 10% or any other percent. This would be understandable if he were writing to (former) Jews, for whom the 10% figure would be understood. But he was writing to (former) Gentiles, who never had any background in the tithe and would have needed such instruction if it was, in fact, God's minimum standard.

Happy Birthday Cindy and tcat!

There's an old saying: If you're worried about having committed the unforgivable sin, don't: you haven't. [Correction, in case anyone digs this up. I was trying to remember where I got this saying when it hit me: credit to CKnapp, with apologies for not recognizing it sooner. Raf: 12/23/04]. That said, I truly respect everyone's difference of opinion on this. I continue to hold my own and wish you well. (I'm just not in a verse wrangling mood this week). Thanks Johniam and George St G.

No, we do NOT "only" have our fleshly point of view. You know better than that. My view is also that you're mistaken about the nature of the unforgivable sin. As long as one continues to reject Christ, it's unforgiven. Once you have accepted him this sin is no longer being committed, and thus there is no need to forgive it. ALL things become new. ALL, with distinction (that distinction being spiritual, not fleshly). ALL things become new. You don't suddenly lose the fleshly, physical consequences of previous sins (you don't suddenly lose the need to go through detox, for example). But all things become new. Thou SHALT be saved. No condition is set on this.

Good question. I'll look it up, let you know if I have an answer or not.

VIRGINIA MUISE, 111, DEVOUT RED SOX FAN By Myrna Oliver Los Angeles Times Virginia Muise, believed the oldest resident of New England and the 31st oldest person in the world, died Nov. 2 at a nursing home in North Haverhill, N.H. She was 111, and had lived to see her beloved Boston Red Sox win the World Series twice -- the first time in 1918, the second a week before she died. Her regional and worldwide ranking in longevity has been verified by the Los Angeles-based Gerontology Research Group, which tracks "super-centenarians," or those older than 110. Mrs. Muise had lost her hearing and normally used a wheelchair because of arthritis, but could still walk short distances. Mrs. Muise always kept a Red Sox cap on the nightstand by her bed and was delighted by the baseball team's World Series victory. Until her health deteriorated, she had been a regular at Fenway Park. Mrs. Muise was born on July 27, 1893, in Halifax, Nova Scotia, where her family ran a rooming house. She was 18 when the Titanic sank in April 1912. Accompanying her dockworker father to the Halifax port, she watched Titanic survivors disembark from rescue ships and saw hundreds of victims' coffins stacked along the wharf like cordwood. Recalling another historic disaster, she once said bluntly: "The whole city blew out its windows." Mrs. Muise was referring to the 1917 explosion of an ammunition ship in Halifax Harbor that killed 2,000 people and leveled two square kilometers of the city -- considered the largest man-made explosion in history prior to the detonation of the atomic bomb. Her husband, Charles, was a blacksmith who died at 94 in 1977. Although the two were not relatives, each had the common French-Canadian surname Muise. The family moved to Boston in 1923, and Mrs. Muise immediately became interested in the Red Sox, who were still basking in their glory as the 1918 World Series champions. Lured partially by discount tickets for women that were prevalent in that era, she became a faithful baseball fan who attended almost every game. A housekeeper and cook in Canada, Mrs. Muise in 1923 became manager of the cafeteria at the former Boston Lying-In Hospital, a position she held until her retirement in 1958. Her son, Gordon Muise, 81, said his mother was far prouder of her pioneering professional achievement than of being the oldest person in New England. But that didn't keep anyone else from appreciating her longevity. In July 2003, New Hampshire Gov. Craig Benson proclaimed her 110th birthday "Virginia Muise Day" and issued a proclamation reading: Besides her son Gordon, Mrs. Muise is survived by another son, John; daughters Margaret Doucet and Edith Murphy; 18 grandchildren, and several great-grandchildren. Los Angeles Times is a Tribune Co. newspaper Publication Date: Thursday, November 11, 2004

Well, maybe I was too harsh. I'll forgive me, but first I insist on an apology. If I don't apologize to me, then I don't see how I can forgive me.

Can you forgive you? No, I cannot. As far as I'm concerned, I can just go to hell for all I care. :)-->

John, Thanks for your reply. Yes, it's a very big "if." One might even say "uttermost." "From our flesh point of view" you are correct. But I didn't think we were looking at this from a flesh point of view. Biblically, doesn't it make sense to you that Jesus was speaking of people who never turn to him, that this is the unforgivable sin (namely, rejecting him)? Regarding the usage of fruit and trees in Matthew 12:33, Jesus is talking about behavior and speech, not eternal life (or life in the age to come, to put it literally). In none of the verses which follow does Jesus state or imply that he's talking about salvation. Note the verse: "EITHER MAKE THE TREE GOOD, AND HIS FRUIT GOOD..." How can you "make" a tree good? Literally, you can't. But if it's a figure of speech and not literal, then the figure calls attention to itself, doesn't it? You can't literally change a tree. But you can literally change you. If you insist on the meaning of trees and fruit as unchangeable seed, you will always, hands down, miss the point of this verse. This has become a doctrinal discussion. If anyone objects to that, I'll stop.

Good question. I believe I've already answered it: Let me turn the tables on you: If someone who was once "born of the wrong seed" recognizes his error and turns to Christ and confesses Romans 10:9,10, SHALT he be saved or not? Using the principle of difficult verses being interpreted in light of the clear: it is clear in the Bible that ANYONE who comes to Christ will be saved by him (would you like me to list the verses?). This one verse, which you cite, is the difficult one to be interpreted in light of those clear ones. I'd like to spend some more time studying that verse before delving into a satisfactory answer. In the meantime, please consider my question.

I would agree with you if someone actually got hurt in all of this. No one did. I think it's more in poor taste for this to have happened than it is for me to mock conspiracy theorists. Oh, by the way, HI ZIX!