templelady

I look back at TWI, even though I got out before the 90's it was still pretty oppressive in my day, and think don't these twits realize that the only way you are EVER going to get people to listen to your ideas regarding politics religion, marriage, child rearing etc etc, is if you are friends first?? Friends that have a genuine concern and care for each other as individuals?? And even if someone just comes to a meeting and you don't know them they have to feel that you care about them as an individual not just another tally mark. TWI just never got that--they regarded friendship as a tool to garner more followers rather than realizing that people bonded by true friendship first are much more likely to bond naturally in other areas such as religion

Wow, I know a published author how fun congratulations

A life outside of TWI Analysis of what happened in TWI ARE NOT necessarily mutually exclusive

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You join TWI, or any group for that matter Because there is a spot/spots in your heart that needs filling You stay because the group either fills the spot/spots or you perceive that there is a possibility to fill the spot/spots You leave when it becomes apparent that it isn't filling that spot/spots and never will fill that spot/spots

excellent post Chatty

Took years to even like being around people ( I mean when I wasn't partying) Took even more years to figure out that people liked being around me Only in the last 5 or so years do I really enjoy people and not feel that I am some sort of disgrace that should be thankful to be allowed in polite society

So you just went spiritual enough to be able to hold onto the power and make it work for you!? Sorry I'm late getting back to this thread 2 weeks ago I had an earache not in the inner ear but an inflammation in the outer canal. Used to get them all the time as a kid excruciating pain. SO on Sunday after services I found two of the brethren and they anointed my head with oil and laid hands on me and prayed to Heavenly Father in the name of His son Jesus Christ for my ear to be healed. And as I prayed silently with them I felt this "pop" in my ear and fluid draining out and the pain was gone. Heavenly Father did that thru the power of the Holy Ghost. When I asked for that blessing I did so because I KNEW that by having a blessing the ear would stop aching. Neither I or the brethren held on to the power Neither I or the brethren made it work for me that is Heavenly Fathers job and He does it very well It's what I posted earlier when we get the notion that it is us our faith in self that is responsible that is when we fail It Is Faith in Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ that counts TWI lead us away from that truth TWi wanted us to fail--because then they had their hooks in --telling is more classes, more ABS, More blessing leadership would make it work WE are by our mortal natures powerless any power that works in us does so by the grace and will of Heavenly Father Not us

Godspeed Johnny the best to you and yours You ever up Anchorage way give me a holler and if down the road you decide to stop by the cafe and I'm not off gallivanting I'll treat you to lemonade and Pizza-

Happiest of BDays my friend

Not so many years ago of a woman was raped she went through hell--everything from the kind of clothes she wore, did she drink, was she a virgin when she got married, making her look like a slut was the usual ploy. So laws were enacted which helped put the blame on the rapist not the victim But as almost anything that is a reaction too rather than a thought out action --- the baby went out with the bath water Dr Phil has a saying about If you do the action you own the consequence If you get naked with another naked person indulge in heavy foreplay and actually start the "deed" all on a willing and consensual level and then change your mind it would be nice if the other person respected that change of mind but whether they do or not--YOU HAVE NOT BEEN RAPED If you get naked with another naked person indulge in heavy foreplay all on a willing and consensual level and then change your mind If force was used ie hitting, choking, pinning down, pulling you down when you got up THEN ITS RAPE If you get naked with another naked person indulge in heavy foreplay all on a willing and consensual level and then change your mind but do nothing to remove yourself from the situation ie continue to lie there THEN ITS NOT RAPE OF course this is all my opinion

Alaska prices are a bit high but the basics, if I am being good and sticking to my self proscribed diet Smart Start cereal 4.29 walmart qt 2% milk 2.59 walmart Slim fast 5.99 walmart Lo mein noodles 4.99 safeway onion 1.99 safeway mushrooms 2.99 safeway 2 pkg frozen Asian veggies 6.18 safeway 1 lb chicken or pork 7.59 (put in pork price since it is higher) safeway Diet Pepsi 5.98 walmart 1 qt ice cream 3.59 walmart Total 46.18 the lo mein and other ingredients I make into a giant pot of stir fry that lasts the week slim fast for lunch cereal for breakfast Sometimes I make a rice mixture Sometimes beans and rice Have a nice big crock pot for making stews My downfall is going out to eat. I read a survey a few years back that said Alaskans (read Anchorites) go out more to eat that in any other town. And I love Chinese and Indian--I digress I would say $60 a week on actual take home and fix groceries would be a huge splurge for me Since Diabetics runs in my birth family --my birth mom died at 64 from it and her dad my grandfather lost his leg to it--I have cut out what I call "grocery fast food", frozen pizza, banquet fried chicken, chicken patties, hot pockets, burritos, all lunch meats, spaghettios, mac and cheese--not because diabetics can't eat all of these things but because weight is a real struggle for me-- It's lose it now or face diabetes in the not too distant future It helps that my friend PAul watches what he eats too so we kind of monitor other when we go out

happy birthday hope it is everything you want and so richly deserve love Ya

Got to thinking maybe it would help if I posted actual examples of the behaviors that drive me crazy Brilliant woman IQ in the 180's up and quits her high paying job because she feels it is unreasonable of her supervisor to demand she get projects done on schedule. Claims that she can't handle the stress. Has depression issues --refuses to take medication because she doesn't believe in it. Goes back to school for more advanced mathematics. Finds school too stressful so quits which ends the Pell grants. Finally her husband who has severe Health issues is forced to work to support them both because welfare etc. demands that she get a job or get a doctor's reason why she can't work which she can't get because she refuses to go to the doctor Is she sick? yes, could she do something to alleviate the problem? --you bet--Is her refusal to do so grounds for withholding aid?? 20 something able bodied guy been in and out of treatment for alcohol. Has a job, gets place to live with first months rent paid for by the state, 2 weeks later up and quits job because he didn't like the hours and the boss got on his case for coming to work hung over, and applies for rent assistance and food stamps. Do we owe him Aid??? And this addiction is a disease thing Cancer is a disease People who are addicts make the decision to get dressed, make the decision to go to the liquor store or the bar, make the decisions to purchase alcohol, make the decision to drink the same. YOU can make the decision not to do the above--in fact just sitting in your chair takes a lot less effort that doing the above. This whole "I'm sick" routine makes me sick--I used coke and crack to the tune of $17,000 in three months, I used because it gave me a group to belong to, I used because I liked the high, I used because I was mad at the world. And I quit by making the decision not to buy any more, not to party with those who were using. Was it easy? HE-- NO did I slip up? SEVERAL Times _ but the decision to quit was made with the same brain as the decision to start - If I can do it--anyone can--Believe me-I am in no way extraordinary Woman in her 40's Gets a church to pay for her housing--claims she is too ill too work--with what no one is sure--but has the energy to everyday run to various agencies for free food, and clothes apply to various agencies for financial aid--all the while commuting from one end of town to the other on the bus Yet She is TOO Sick to go to an office and sit behind a desk for eight Hours??????? DO we owe her aid???? This is just the tip of what I have seen in the last 15 years and continue to see on a daily basis I have no desire to see anyone cold, hungry or going without medical care through no fault of their own But When are we going to get back to the value that makes people accountable not only for the results of their cations but the consequences of same????????

And here is where I respectfully disagree Chas Because I think that people with what is called "Personality Disorders" often have far more control that they are willing to exercise It's kind of which came first the chicken or the egg My viewpoint is that if you are able to "hold it together" and come across in a manner that permits you to manipulate others to get what you want. Then you are conscious of your action and able to control same. But then I have trouble with the whole concept of personality disorder because it is completely subjective both in its diagnosis and treatment This is what I meant when I said we have made gods of the mental health professionals IN the old days it was called being lazy, shiftless and a few others I won't post IMO Looking at life differently, being eccentric or even wacky IS NOT a justification for behaving badly and not supporting oneself--And Maybe just Maybe we need to get back to that viewpoint.

The people I am speaking about have made the conscious choice to continue their lifestyle. The reason is quite, frankly, irrelevant. After you are an adult you have two choices ---to move forward with your life or not. You are in charge, unless there is a mental defect. if you choose to wallow in past wrongs, If you choose to behave as a child, If you choose to claim, bad parenting, the devil , economic status whatever to justify your behavior --that is your choice. You can choose to stop the justification in the same manner you chose to embrace the justification .And Don't tell me it can't be done, I grew up with Paranoid Schizophrenic mother, who was protected from her actions, I've been a coke addict -which I kicked with no Treatment-I quit smoking again Cold turkey, I've been homeless, and jobless I have survived abuse etc etc. And I come out of it by making the decision to make better choices then doing it. Did I have friends yes, God Most definitely, Assistance yes--but ultimately I was the one who made the decision to change my behaviors and then followed through. As a society we have made Gods of the mental health business and left the concept of free agency and self responsibility on the doorstep. "I can't", "Somebody has to help me", "It's not my fault", "My parents.........(fill in the blank)" Enough already--we need to face the fact that some people will never step up to the plate and take responsibility for themselves--the question then becomes just when do we as a society have an obligation to fund their misanthropic lifestyles People with mental handicaps lacking the intelligent or thought processing abilities to make these decisions are not what I am talking about. As to the others -there are hundreds of people --many protected and enabled by family members- who choose to keep drinking, eating, drugging, not follow doctors orders, not take their medications, not make lifestyle changes-- knowing that their actions will be detrimental-- who continue to do so --with the attitude that they are entitled to live their lives as they please because "it's my life" "it's a free country". Then when the house of cards they have so shakily built starts to tumble around their ears they expect others including the welfare system to take care of them but still refuse to do anything to help themselves. Much as the woman you tried to help What as a society do we owe these people?? Because this is the true moral conundrum of the system. The able bodied we can make work Those who fraudulently obtain assistance we cut off but this category poses tremendous ethical, and moral conundrums How do we address those issues is my question.

NOw if "his" was a mile high.....................

Well that takes a load off my mind If she is in the hands of professionals then they will know if any programs that are there to meet her needs. Of course it should go without saying that the woman in question needs to be willing to honestly and forthrightly comply with any and all suggestions and requests of said professionals. Otherwise said woman will soon find herself back in the very spot she apparently is complaining about and have NO ONE to blame but herself NOW back to my earlier question What do we do with those who are chronic abusers of drugs etc and health problems who have reached the stage where, because of the abuse of their bodies on the physical front ,will probably never be able to hold a job and in some cases care for themselves but refuse to even attempt to stop their addictions ior bad lifestyle choices?

This is not a situation that is different in Missouri and Kansas than anywhere else. any shelter-knowing of a persons illness who demanded that they eat foods that were injurious to them or perform tasks that could harm them would be legally liable--anywhere in this country If she was sent to the shelter By these individual s you can be sure that said shelter was notified that she was severely diabetic. Second if the solution was to send her to the shelter --perhaps, just perhaps-- the determination had been made that this person was in large part responsible for her situation and was attempting to milk the system and they felt the shelter would be a wake up call as to her behaviors. My knowledge is limited in many areas, however, having worked with the homeless and near homeless off and on for the last 15 years not as limited as you suppose. From the situation you yourself outlined you turned her in because you felt she was committing fraud of some kind. The result of fraud is that the system demands some guarantee that they won't be defrauded again hence guardianship's There you have my point in a nutshell SHE ISN"T EVEN TRYING FOR HERSELF That pretty well sums up her life from what you have posted And for the record I have tremendous sympathy for the downtrodden, the exhausted, and those persons who have come to the end of their tether for whatever reason. I would be hard pressed not to having been there myself. I got out, I got out with help from friends, Agencies, and God. I got out because I was willing to do the things necessary to change my life for myself. A person who is a diabetic and eats foods she knows are bad for her stays with a man who is exacerbating the problem only applies for available assistance at the insistence of others IS NOT I repeat IS NOT willing to help herself And If this next makes me a hard--- I really don't care No matter what your background no matter how rotten your life, no matter what your childhood was like--unless you are severely mentally impaired YOU Are responsible for the ultimate outcome of your life. Are there going to be hard times? YUP Are there going to be times where just plain GUTS is required to take a scary step into the unknown for the chance at something better? OH YEAH. Are there going to be HARD decisions necessary? WITHOUT A DOUBT. But we are people not coral stuck in one spot tied to the whimsy of the tides. Insanity is performing the same actions and expecting different results

Understand I am not talking about everyone in society I am specifically talking about those members of Society who expect some form of Welfare to assist in their care, housing, and food. CW post does bring up some interesting points What do we do about the person who either because of emotional, physical or psychological problems is unable or unwilling to make sound decisions about their life. I'm not talking about being eccentric here, I am talking about a pattern of decisions that are potentially life threatening. The chronic alcoholic the chronic drug user the diabetic who refuses to diet, eat properly or take their medications the person with High blood pressure and any number of other diseases that if not treated appropriately spell death DO we as a society have a mandate that says "if we are to support you with our tax dollars YOU MUST comply with sound medical practice Vis-a-vis your disease" And if they refuse,at what point does the state step in and declare them incompetent and appoint guardians to see that they do comply Or is there a point where we say--you have made the choice --and turn our backs and walk away. I have a tremendous problem with this last one--But I also am a believer in the idea if my taxes are supporting you you need to meet me half way. So is the solution a form of group home where the chronically needy who are chronically ill are compelled to live lifestyles that are not injurious But doesn't that go against our very belief system in this country? SO what do we do with the person with a life threatening illness who uses said illness to garner sympathy, support and welfare monies --uses it to the point of acting in ways that further exacerbate that illness with disregard to the potential life ending results---all to further their lifestyle choice of no responsibility for themselves???

My favorites THe rabbit, hamster and mouse for Blockbuster, the lion for Taco Bell, the crabs for Budweiserm, and The grand theft aute takeoff fior Coke. The most stupid the Careers and Go Daddy the rest were just Blah

Shelters, liker any other institution, are subject to the law. ANY shelter which failed to exercise due diligence in dealing with a woman this ill would find themselves shut down, fined and facing not only civil but criminal charges both as an entity and the individuals involved. A shelter on finding themselves housing a woman with this level of illness would NOT be making her eat doughnuts, pasta, and walk the streets. They would be on the phone to local area resources to find her more suitable housing, have her hospitalized in the interim to make sure her blood sugars etc were at acceptable levels and feeding her foods that were acceptable. Clearly CW, the wool has been pulled over your eyes-- This part of this persons story is a fabrication. THE only exception to it being a fabrication would be if this woman DELIBERATELY withheld the information that she is ill, Then that would be on HER shoulders. Secondly, a person whose health is so bad that they are facing death CANNOT be denied help IT may mean that guardianship is appointed to handle money so that the funds are appropriately used It may mean that a guardianship of the person is declared that in life and death situations can override the persons wishes and have suitable care provided It may lead to a declaration of incompetency on one or several levels if it is clear that the person is either physically , or psychologically incapable or uunwillling to make sound health and life decisions In short from the facts you have provided with one of two scenarios is in play A--this person if not outright fabricating the story is definitely slanting or leaving large holes in the truth B- the story is true for the most part except the severity of the illness is being severely exaggerated both in the telling to you and in the persons daily life as she continues to try and garner sympathy and milk the system

IMO It is this very "more sex is the solution attitude", not only of TWI but society as a whole, that leads to some of this "gray area rape". If you really believe that sex will fix the problem--and lord knows its screamed at us from every talk show, billboard and magazine--than the husband , boyfriend or acquaintance who presses on (no pun intended) despite the not so clear position of his partner--may, just may, be forgiven.

Chatty stop apologizing --you have nothing to apologize for And the situation I have outlined has nothing to do with being loved as a child or an adult and nothing to do with how much she loves her husband or his or her prowess Some people just find the physical sensation of being being covered in sweat and sticky stuff unpleasant --sure you can shower afterwards --but limiting the number of times the situation occurs is equally valid