I?m impressed with the vast non-thinking that takes place here in the criticism of my position.
Nearly ten times now I have challenged ?Why believe the Bible is God?s Word? ?
It never is answered.
How can you all maintain such a belief, and yet not know why you believe it?
The non-thinking through on WHY the Bible is present in every criticism of me.
I HAVE thought through why I believe the Bible.
I think my position on the God-breathed status of Dr?s writings is so very uncomfortable to many here because it challenges what you have placed at the core of your being. You don?t know WHY the Bible should be believed, but you?ll attack me...
I?ll just keep challenging: WHY do you believe the Bible, as originally given, is of God?
God gave the revelation in the bible and some did believe it , enough that it still alive thousands of years later.
Mike oh Mike your exhausting , only those with this orange book have the revelation from God?
again what a tiny little God you have .
I believe in the bible because it has stood for centuries as a holy book . I believe the bible is truth because it works in my life for truth and answers, real solutions to real life.
If it is all about the revelation you have heard then where is your proof Mike?
Your ears??/
o well I tell ya satan speaks to those who will listen as well... clearly with the bible as a standard of truth your wide freaking open for anything this god of your may wisper.
he has told some whooper lies Mike and many have heard and obeyed in the name of revelation!!!!
have I got a witness Grease spot posters??
the fact is you want us to dismiss the bible and at first read pfal then begin to hear the special magic words you insert in the vpw teachings... are you some kind of witch or something?/
The bible says not to change its words or you will be a sorry sack, hmmmm well just dismiss it then is your solution to that little problem..
where is your proof because you say your dandy on the internet???
yeah and LIke I tried to tell you guys before I am really pamela anderson . no one believes me either.
What the h@ll does that mean? we had a pointer dog once stupid thing would stand at a hole in the ground with a stiff neck for freaking days if he had to...
Same thing???
you know you play word games mike for some one so sure of what is truth and what isnt you sure do beat around the bush and play games alot with the words you write here.
your master vpw said "say what you mean and mean what you say," well apparently that word of that wisdom from your man fell on deaf ears in you.
Its like you have a need to trick people into reading a little bit and bada bing some magic spell will happen to them and wow God will appear to them in the flesh!! (his name is mike??)
every one here has read it nothing happened Mike... your the only one who hears this voice of the appearing time now...
I think they have a medication for this voice stuff your experiencing .
There?s an odd verse, I John 2:28, that few have come to terms with. There are lots of surprises at the Appearing, and not all are fun. I believe we?re at that Appearing right now, and PFAL being revealed as God?s Word is a bit of a shocker to all. When we come back to PFAL we?ll see.
And now little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
I John 2:28
Mike,
You seem to be saying that the revelation you've received that PFAL is The Word of God is The Appearing of Christ.
Well crap I just thought of something to scary to metion... but I will haha
Well we now know vpw is in the rank with the apostle paul and the orange book is as holy as the bible right???
The bad news is in 3000 years or so it will just be a tattered remenant of what was once truth as God wrote it in the hands of His men... We will have no original copies to say we know what God really said in pfal so it is all private interpertation..
what a sad sad ending so sorry Mike. but get on the stick while you can!!!!
mp really Mike thinks this idea of christ forming In him in the flesh of Mike is the appearing of christ!!! hahahhahahahahahahahahhlololololol
Like I said in my post before geez I hope the christ formed within talking to me is not a scicopathic killer of some sort. o wait that would work like Paul was in the name of his religion oo man this is just to rich... haha
pfal did not teach me to recognize Jesus Christ no one can see Him He says so in the bible we can not see Him. We understand spiritual matters because of the knowledge not see Christ or grow Him inside us.
o Lod your on that you think your the saviour replaced kick again .... this is getting very stale and old.
mike replaced the messiah dont ya know??? he formed the christ of mankind within Himself and is going to save the world... now
a real super hero ...
except you can not claim to be a mini christ as God said He was THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON rose from the dead for the rest of us which God classifies as SINNERS.
I apologize for my post to you. I assumed you could read content and not words.
It has prompted only my words thrown back at me, with no consideration for my ideas that this is the administration of the spirit not the letter (PFAL or otherwise) and life is about Christ, not VPW.
Your prompt response tells me that you are not a man of consideration. I have read your posts, for several months. And yet you respond to me as if I my IDEAS (not word fights) are nothing? you never responded.
I am sorry I posted to you.
I have no agenda. Just Ideas... which you eviscerated into mere words? no engagement on the points of Jesus Christ I raised which ANY 8th grader would have recognized as CENTRAL.
You missed it. All of it.
Sorry I posted. I thought you might see Christ instead of VPW. I was wrong for now.
Oh, and Mike to answer your question...I don't believe the bible is the word of God like some believe the bible is the word of God. I think it is a wonderful reference book...much like the Kabbalah, the Bhagavada-Gita (baby) the Tao Te Ching, The Tibetan Book of the Dead, The Dead Sea Scrolls, The ....shall I continue?
edited typo...
[This message was edited by karmicdebt on July 03, 2003 at 1:28.]
I also want to hear Mike reply I kinda hate fear based teachings myself . Indeed Mike realizes many people accept Jesus as Lord without pfal in history, today and in the future... so he says it is like a super big power for these olgs(of course he can answer for himself again for you) given by God because no one eles can recieve it .
so my guess would be we are shunned to the lesser christians Mike has labeled as such.
or maybe something new will come up and he will admit I will burn in hell for disagreeing with his theory and ridiculas ideas.
at least that would be fresh,,, exp. if he can PROVE IT!
I DID at one time, one long extended time of years and decades, consider those points you mentioned, and now no longer do. I have addressed them here before, hence my brevity with you.
Have you engaged at all with the points regarding Jesus Christ I have documented here? Are you aware of them? They can be found in the table of contents now.
Let me ask you this: why do you assume I never before thought of all you posed to me? I've thought these things through for at least five years, and some elements for as long as 30 years.
I find myself skimming your posts faster and faster as you revert to your sloppy style more and more. I can?t really say I have the slightest idea of what you?re babbling about, because your posts demand so much effort to read.
I just thought I?d let you know because I know nearly everyone else also avoids reading your posts for the headaches they cause when attempting to decipher them.
You can either clean up your grammar or go unread. You decide.
What makes you think I even KNOW the answer to your question? I'm not into finding things like that out.
If you don't believe in the truth of the Bible as originally given, they what the heck do you CARE what I believe, what Dr believes, or what GOD says?
Why would you even be interested in such a question?
I'm investigating what happens to me as I OBEY Dr's final instructions. I already KNOW what happened when I (and everyone else) disobeyed Dr's final instructions. Why would I care to inquire about the consequences of unbelief here? The only possible reason I could imagine is to use such a piece of information as a fear motivator. I?m just not into that. Sorry. You?re asking a question that doesn?t hold much of a curiosity lure for me to want to bother to investigate. I?m into knowing what is available from God and how to receive it. The consequences are NOT receiving it. Beyond that I?m quite uninterested.
Hey, I got a question for you: Do I know you? Did we cross paths at all in SD? Your posted history of what happened here was somewhat over abbreviated.
Yet why is it when addressing Karmicdebt you metion that he/she doesnt believe in the truth of the bible and should be dismissed and ashamed... yet you claim the very same just a few short posts ago to get out of a question?
You do not KNOW what happened whan "everybody eles here disobeyed Dr's final instructions"
you made it up in your mind as a fantasy and think everyone has had the same experience.
I think it is time for me to make my feet less dusty and leave you to your own devices.
In your earlier post to me, you said..."
quote: I?ve simply decided that there is not ONE trustworthy scholar or teacher in the world in whom I will trust as being a judge of PFAL not matching scripture.
So your mind is made up.
Regardless of what ANY person could possibly say... or ANY facts could possibly prove.
Before I Go in peace, honestly... consider this... please....
You could benefit from professional help. You exhibit many of the characteristics of a person with delusional disorder? people that believe something in spite of the facts or reject the notion that third party validation of their beliefs would be expected, if based upon truth.
You do not appear to be troubled with Schizophrenia... (a stronger disorder which often embraces truely bizzare delusions)... but that should be for a professional to decide.
My guess is you will not seek help.
That saddens me.
You will probably throw this post back in my face, like most delusional people... your responses are very predictable when confronted with an opportunity to validate your beliefs rahter than simply shout them like a street preacher.
Mike and the vp worshippers HAVE to have a reason to blame the downfall of twi on...
He cannot face the fact that we were all taken in by a wisc.... that everything we based our lives on for so many years was a lie.
So they have come up with scenario that saves them face, and continues the illusion of vp`s Godliness.... ie WE all screwed up.
It is a shame mike, for the *consequences* that you speak of, by ignoring vp`s final teaching and pfal dogma...it is a shame that you are not interested, because many of us here could SHARE with you personally in this arena.
Let me tell you, God works even BETTER, without your mind being closed and sealed by pfal/twi dogma, God can finally make himself *heard* again. Most of us have realised that it was twi dogma that was the foot on the hose preventing growth, understanding, answeres to prayers.
Speaking for my family, it is wonderfull to see God at work again, to once again be embarked on a learning/growing adventure with Him.... to see prayers answered...to be blessed with everything we could ask for, and more (things we wouldn`t have dared to ask for hee hee).
It is humbeling the blessings that God showers upon us and our families.... for many of us...these are the greatest years of our lives....that is why we are so incredulous that you want to drag us back into bondage and darkness we endured while *mastering* pfal.
That is why we are dissapointed that you have sealed your mind and heart from God and from your bretheren Mike...you may not believe this, but we like you, and keep trying to hand you the keys to release yourself from the prison you have encased youself in.
p.s. Don`t worry mj, we DO read you, with or without puntution, because we know that you have something worthwhile to say....whereas mike even WITH all of his punctution and perfect paragraphs isn`t worth the effort to struggle through ... seeing as his only message is to return to the darkness of idolotry and bondage.
How dare you to accuse MJ of sloppy writing skills when your own writing style is so unfocused and difficult to read? Do not give yourself airs that this difficulty is due to the deep "data" you are presenting. This is just an external manifestation of the confusion within your mind.
I think Steve Lortz "OLG extrordinaire" had the best view of this whole thread. You are presenting a dissertation before a panel of your peers and the burden is on you to prove your thesis. All you have managed to do is confuse the cafe with your strange suppositions, tax them with your difficult writing style and then infuriate them when you refuse to answer reasonable questions.
It is appalling for you to try to humiliate MJ. This hard-heartedness is an excellent example of the fruit of your years of VPW "research". You owe her a sincere apology.
Mike, why do I even care?....because you posted it and it was threatening! Let me paste it again.
"All I can say is control your emotions, and consider how high the stakes are if you?re wrong. If I were you I?d sit tight and at least wait for my data to be relatively depleted."
Now I am asking you to explain that remark. How high are the stakes if we are wrong....Did you just type it or did you mean it?
Your recall must only work in PFAL matters since We have had more than one exchange as to knowing each other. On this thread and I believe Pat's thread...I will not go down that road again. You will just have to look them up.
It is part of the good cop/bad cop thing Mike does....he's playing both parts. He insults and then says he didn't mean it and then says we are taking his words out of context....
And it is only because of his poor communication skills that he can use "the out of context" argument. 1/2 the time I don't know what the .... he is saying!
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Yanagisawa
Did you say "get the ball rolling" or get the kaballa rolling...for it sounds like that's your current freak - some sort of hidden, mystical kaballa-esque gnostic esotericism. I'm fascinated with you
Mike
I?m impressed with the vast non-thinking that takes place here in the criticism of my position.
Nearly ten times now I have challenged ?Why believe the Bible is God?s Word? ?
It never is answered.
How can you all maintain such a belief, and yet not know why you believe it?
The non-thinking through on WHY the Bible is present in every criticism of me.
I HAVE thought through why I believe the Bible.
I think my position on the God-breathed status of Dr?s writings is so very uncomfortable to many here because it challenges what you have placed at the core of your being. You don?t know WHY the Bible should be believed, but you?ll attack me...
I?ll just keep challenging: WHY do you believe the Bible, as originally given, is of God?
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mj412
so your waiting for us to join in?
God gave the revelation in the bible and some did believe it , enough that it still alive thousands of years later.
Mike oh Mike your exhausting , only those with this orange book have the revelation from God?
again what a tiny little God you have .
I believe in the bible because it has stood for centuries as a holy book . I believe the bible is truth because it works in my life for truth and answers, real solutions to real life.
If it is all about the revelation you have heard then where is your proof Mike?
Your ears??/
o well I tell ya satan speaks to those who will listen as well... clearly with the bible as a standard of truth your wide freaking open for anything this god of your may wisper.
he has told some whooper lies Mike and many have heard and obeyed in the name of revelation!!!!
have I got a witness Grease spot posters??
the fact is you want us to dismiss the bible and at first read pfal then begin to hear the special magic words you insert in the vpw teachings... are you some kind of witch or something?/
The bible says not to change its words or you will be a sorry sack, hmmmm well just dismiss it then is your solution to that little problem..
where is your proof because you say your dandy on the internet???
yeah and LIke I tried to tell you guys before I am really pamela anderson . no one believes me either.
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Mike
mj412,
The proof is within the pages of PFAL. When people genuinely come back to it THEN the proofs will flow.
The pages of PFAL point to the pages of the Bible.
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mj412
the pages point to the bible.
What the h@ll does that mean? we had a pointer dog once stupid thing would stand at a hole in the ground with a stiff neck for freaking days if he had to...
Same thing???
you know you play word games mike for some one so sure of what is truth and what isnt you sure do beat around the bush and play games alot with the words you write here.
your master vpw said "say what you mean and mean what you say," well apparently that word of that wisdom from your man fell on deaf ears in you.
Its like you have a need to trick people into reading a little bit and bada bing some magic spell will happen to them and wow God will appear to them in the flesh!! (his name is mike??)
every one here has read it nothing happened Mike... your the only one who hears this voice of the appearing time now...
I think they have a medication for this voice stuff your experiencing .
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lovematters
And now little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
I John 2:28
Mike,
You seem to be saying that the revelation you've received that PFAL is The Word of God is The Appearing of Christ.
Is that what you mean?
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Mike
It's close.
Gaining a spiritual understanding of PFAL is HOW we see Christ spiritually.
Why would God intervene in 1942? Because it's time!
Jesus Christ is God's Word made flesh.
When we put on that Word WE TOO become the Word in the flesh.
There's got to be a BIG reason God intervened in 1942 to reissue His Word. It's to teach us HOW to see His Son perfectly.
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mj412
Well crap I just thought of something to scary to metion... but I will haha
Well we now know vpw is in the rank with the apostle paul and the orange book is as holy as the bible right???
The bad news is in 3000 years or so it will just be a tattered remenant of what was once truth as God wrote it in the hands of His men... We will have no original copies to say we know what God really said in pfal so it is all private interpertation..
what a sad sad ending so sorry Mike. but get on the stick while you can!!!!
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mj412
I think he said vpw appeared as Christ .
mp really Mike thinks this idea of christ forming In him in the flesh of Mike is the appearing of christ!!! hahahhahahahahahahahahhlololololol
Like I said in my post before geez I hope the christ formed within talking to me is not a scicopathic killer of some sort. o wait that would work like Paul was in the name of his religion oo man this is just to rich... haha
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Mike
mj412,
Do you watch a lot of TV?
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mj412
So Mike
does jesus have brown or blue eyes?
long flowing hair and a tan?
pfal did not teach me to recognize Jesus Christ no one can see Him He says so in the bible we can not see Him. We understand spiritual matters because of the knowledge not see Christ or grow Him inside us.
o Lod your on that you think your the saviour replaced kick again .... this is getting very stale and old.
mike replaced the messiah dont ya know??? he formed the christ of mankind within Himself and is going to save the world... now
a real super hero ...
except you can not claim to be a mini christ as God said He was THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON rose from the dead for the rest of us which God classifies as SINNERS.
sorry again MIKE
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Too Gray Now
Mike:
I apologize for my post to you. I assumed you could read content and not words.
It has prompted only my words thrown back at me, with no consideration for my ideas that this is the administration of the spirit not the letter (PFAL or otherwise) and life is about Christ, not VPW.
Your prompt response tells me that you are not a man of consideration. I have read your posts, for several months. And yet you respond to me as if I my IDEAS (not word fights) are nothing? you never responded.
I am sorry I posted to you.
I have no agenda. Just Ideas... which you eviscerated into mere words? no engagement on the points of Jesus Christ I raised which ANY 8th grader would have recognized as CENTRAL.
You missed it. All of it.
Sorry I posted. I thought you might see Christ instead of VPW. I was wrong for now.
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mj412
now is your chance to get nasty and rid yourself of me right mike ?
man this is stale and predictable.
call your friends in whatever. mike no not really why do you ask?
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karmicdebt
Mike,
Please do not allow my question to be buried...
Exactly how high are the stakes if we are wrong? What is the consequence for not following the doctrine you teach?
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karmicdebt
Oh, and Mike to answer your question...I don't believe the bible is the word of God like some believe the bible is the word of God. I think it is a wonderful reference book...much like the Kabbalah, the Bhagavada-Gita (baby) the Tao Te Ching, The Tibetan Book of the Dead, The Dead Sea Scrolls, The ....shall I continue?
edited typo...
[This message was edited by karmicdebt on July 03, 2003 at 1:28.]
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mj412
Karmicdebt
I also want to hear Mike reply I kinda hate fear based teachings myself . Indeed Mike realizes many people accept Jesus as Lord without pfal in history, today and in the future... so he says it is like a super big power for these olgs(of course he can answer for himself again for you) given by God because no one eles can recieve it .
so my guess would be we are shunned to the lesser christians Mike has labeled as such.
or maybe something new will come up and he will admit I will burn in hell for disagreeing with his theory and ridiculas ideas.
at least that would be fresh,,, exp. if he can PROVE IT!
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Mike
Too Gray Now,
I DID at one time, one long extended time of years and decades, consider those points you mentioned, and now no longer do. I have addressed them here before, hence my brevity with you.
Have you engaged at all with the points regarding Jesus Christ I have documented here? Are you aware of them? They can be found in the table of contents now.
Let me ask you this: why do you assume I never before thought of all you posed to me? I've thought these things through for at least five years, and some elements for as long as 30 years.
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Mike
mj412,
May I ask you to please use punctuation?
I find myself skimming your posts faster and faster as you revert to your sloppy style more and more. I can?t really say I have the slightest idea of what you?re babbling about, because your posts demand so much effort to read.
I just thought I?d let you know because I know nearly everyone else also avoids reading your posts for the headaches they cause when attempting to decipher them.
You can either clean up your grammar or go unread. You decide.
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Mike
karmicdebt,
What makes you think I even KNOW the answer to your question? I'm not into finding things like that out.
If you don't believe in the truth of the Bible as originally given, they what the heck do you CARE what I believe, what Dr believes, or what GOD says?
Why would you even be interested in such a question?
I'm investigating what happens to me as I OBEY Dr's final instructions. I already KNOW what happened when I (and everyone else) disobeyed Dr's final instructions. Why would I care to inquire about the consequences of unbelief here? The only possible reason I could imagine is to use such a piece of information as a fear motivator. I?m just not into that. Sorry. You?re asking a question that doesn?t hold much of a curiosity lure for me to want to bother to investigate. I?m into knowing what is available from God and how to receive it. The consequences are NOT receiving it. Beyond that I?m quite uninterested.
Hey, I got a question for you: Do I know you? Did we cross paths at all in SD? Your posted history of what happened here was somewhat over abbreviated.
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mj412
mike I could care less about your insults.
Yet why is it when addressing Karmicdebt you metion that he/she doesnt believe in the truth of the bible and should be dismissed and ashamed... yet you claim the very same just a few short posts ago to get out of a question?
You do not KNOW what happened whan "everybody eles here disobeyed Dr's final instructions"
you made it up in your mind as a fantasy and think everyone has had the same experience.
Your wrong.
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Too Gray Now
Mike:
I think it is time for me to make my feet less dusty and leave you to your own devices.
In your earlier post to me, you said..."
So your mind is made up.
Regardless of what ANY person could possibly say... or ANY facts could possibly prove.
Before I Go in peace, honestly... consider this... please....
You could benefit from professional help. You exhibit many of the characteristics of a person with delusional disorder? people that believe something in spite of the facts or reject the notion that third party validation of their beliefs would be expected, if based upon truth.
You do not appear to be troubled with Schizophrenia... (a stronger disorder which often embraces truely bizzare delusions)... but that should be for a professional to decide.
My guess is you will not seek help.
That saddens me.
You will probably throw this post back in my face, like most delusional people... your responses are very predictable when confronted with an opportunity to validate your beliefs rahter than simply shout them like a street preacher.
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rascal
You are right mj, It IS all a big fantasy.
Mike and the vp worshippers HAVE to have a reason to blame the downfall of twi on...
He cannot face the fact that we were all taken in by a wisc.... that everything we based our lives on for so many years was a lie.
So they have come up with scenario that saves them face, and continues the illusion of vp`s Godliness.... ie WE all screwed up.
It is a shame mike, for the *consequences* that you speak of, by ignoring vp`s final teaching and pfal dogma...it is a shame that you are not interested, because many of us here could SHARE with you personally in this arena.
Let me tell you, God works even BETTER, without your mind being closed and sealed by pfal/twi dogma, God can finally make himself *heard* again. Most of us have realised that it was twi dogma that was the foot on the hose preventing growth, understanding, answeres to prayers.
Speaking for my family, it is wonderfull to see God at work again, to once again be embarked on a learning/growing adventure with Him.... to see prayers answered...to be blessed with everything we could ask for, and more (things we wouldn`t have dared to ask for hee hee).
It is humbeling the blessings that God showers upon us and our families.... for many of us...these are the greatest years of our lives....that is why we are so incredulous that you want to drag us back into bondage and darkness we endured while *mastering* pfal.
That is why we are dissapointed that you have sealed your mind and heart from God and from your bretheren Mike...you may not believe this, but we like you, and keep trying to hand you the keys to release yourself from the prison you have encased youself in.
p.s. Don`t worry mj, we DO read you, with or without puntution, because we know that you have something worthwhile to say....whereas mike even WITH all of his punctution and perfect paragraphs isn`t worth the effort to struggle through ... seeing as his only message is to return to the darkness of idolotry and bondage.
Too bad
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E. W. Bullinger
Dear Mike:
How dare you to accuse MJ of sloppy writing skills when your own writing style is so unfocused and difficult to read? Do not give yourself airs that this difficulty is due to the deep "data" you are presenting. This is just an external manifestation of the confusion within your mind.
I think Steve Lortz "OLG extrordinaire" had the best view of this whole thread. You are presenting a dissertation before a panel of your peers and the burden is on you to prove your thesis. All you have managed to do is confuse the cafe with your strange suppositions, tax them with your difficult writing style and then infuriate them when you refuse to answer reasonable questions.
It is appalling for you to try to humiliate MJ. This hard-heartedness is an excellent example of the fruit of your years of VPW "research". You owe her a sincere apology.
EWB
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karmicdebt
Mike, why do I even care?....because you posted it and it was threatening! Let me paste it again.
"All I can say is control your emotions, and consider how high the stakes are if you?re wrong. If I were you I?d sit tight and at least wait for my data to be relatively depleted."
Now I am asking you to explain that remark. How high are the stakes if we are wrong....Did you just type it or did you mean it?
Your recall must only work in PFAL matters since We have had more than one exchange as to knowing each other. On this thread and I believe Pat's thread...I will not go down that road again. You will just have to look them up.
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karmicdebt
EWB....don't worry.
It is part of the good cop/bad cop thing Mike does....he's playing both parts. He insults and then says he didn't mean it and then says we are taking his words out of context....
And it is only because of his poor communication skills that he can use "the out of context" argument. 1/2 the time I don't know what the .... he is saying!
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