Hubby gave me that book to read when we first met. I was freshly out of TWI - like days fresh - and the book was painful to read then. Painful because it hit the bullseye on what I had experienced. I HIGHLY recommend this book - it's tough to read but you won't regret it. I had to take it in short bits. It's not a big book - something you could read in an afternoon - but it's thick in wisdom!
The only ones that jump out at me are 3 and maybe 7. Overwhelming service? To some people sitting through 15 minutes of teaching is "overwhelming". Of course, those of you who were in TWI from mid to late 90s......?
I can see how those of you involved back in the early days and under vee pee could say that you don't see how TWI fits that list...depending on where you were and who your leaders were, of course.
I didn't get involved till the early 90's, so I'll list what I think of when I see that list:
1. The members of the toxic faith system make claims about their character, abilities, or knowledge that make them "special" in some way.
We were the only ones with "the truth like it hadn't been heard since the first century" - we were arrogant about it.
"We've forgotten more scriptures than most people ever know."
We "saved the world" or "saved the country" from impending disasters quite a few times - I think y'all in TWI I made the same claims at times.
Our kids did better in school, in sports, in everything than kids belonging to the "egg sucking world"
I could go on, but I think you get the idea....
2. The leader is dictatorial and authoritarian.
It's a no-brainer that craig was like this. From stories I've heard about vee pee, he was too.
3. An "us versus them" mentality.
This is also a no-brainer. We didn't waste time on "rank unbelievers".
4. Toxic faith systems are punitive in nature.
Any refusal to follow the rules of TWI resulted in "mark & avoid", "face melting" sessions, being utterly embarrassed and yelled at in public, having the whole group learn private things about your life that's none of their business. The debt issue being one glaring example of that.
5. Adherants are asked to give overwhelming service.
Maybe you were only asked to go to a 15 minute teaching, but many of us spent hours cleaning the houses of leaders, babysitting their kids, going to those "15 minute teaching" fellowships three nights a week, attending Sunday service phone hook-ups, witnessing nights, leadership meetings, etc. etc. etc.
We didn't have a free minute to ourselves once we became involved with TWI.
6. Many members in the system are physically ill, emotionally distraught, and spiritually dead.
I don't know how one would document this, but I do know that, in hindsight, I was and I attribute it to the stress of trying to jump through all the hoops required of us. I recognize, now, how beaten down and depressed so many people in our area are/were.
7. Information is valid only if is comes from the top of the organization.
Also a no-brainer, imo.
8. Legalism - Rules are distortions of God's intent and leave Him out of the relationship.
There are threads upon threads about this.
9. Claims of being so tied into God that there is no need to be tied into people.
Not sure what this means. We didn't help people physically because the just "need the Word" and we didn't admit any needs that we may have had for fear of having our "believing" attacked. We also were supposed to "get our needs met in the fellowship."
10. Labeling - The technique of labeling is used to discount a person who opposes the beliefs of the toxic religion.
"egg sucking world"
"empty floating by" (body & soul people)
"natural man"
"no better than animals"
Catholic jokes out the wazoo
Utter disgust with trinitarians
Shall I go on?
TWI perpetuated and promoted disgust, hate and utter disregard for our fellow man.
Belle: Yeah, we, well...I passed the baton to you in a sense. I was in from 76-94 and you were in first in 93 but sold out in 95..did I get that right? No, VP was smooth as Southern Comfort. If he was abbrasive to people close to him then he was, but you'd have never guessed that from seeing him teach at ROAs and stuff. Day by day life in TWI was NOT terrifying from 76-89 for me. Even when we got forced out in 94 it was awkward for the people who forced us out too. We were torn between "loyalty to the ministry that taught you the word" and self respect, but those that forced us out were too. They were hesitant to have "sawdust in their veins" like LCM ordered them to. Yeah, 94 was a difference maker all right.
The only ones that jump out at me are 3 and maybe 7. Overwhelming service? To some people sitting through 15 minutes of teaching is "overwhelming". Of course, those of you who were in TWI from mid to late 90s......?
I was in from 1988-2000. I was basically "Jane Believer" - mostly an assistant TC, never Corps but a company woman, for the most part.
Overwhelming service looked something like this, in an average week:
Sunday - Phone hook-up (mandatory) at 2:30 PM - but remember, you have to do set up, so be there at 11am. Expect it to wrap up, including clean up, around 5pm.
Monday - Fellowship 7pm - set up has to be done by 6pm, so you start cleaning and preparing at 5pm.
Tuesday - Witnessing at the mall from 7-9pm.
Wednesday - Fellowship 7pm - set up has to be done by 6pm, so you start cleaning and preparing at 5pm.
Thursday - Corps Night (but since I'm not WC, I'm babysitting from 6pm until 11pm)
Friday - Fellowship 7pm - set up has to be done by 6pm, so you start cleaning and preparing at 5pm.
Saturday - Limb work day, Day in the Word, or a weekend mind-bending class.
Now, pepper this schedule with lots of call from people in the twig and leadership. Expect lots of little favors for this, that and the other...
And repeat this week 52 times a year... basically...
Now I'm reading "Toxic Faith." I'm currently at the chapter entitled "Ten Characteristics of a Toxic Faith System."
Hmmm let me see, I wonder if TWI had/has any of them?
All the "Word-Faith" churches (not just TWI) past this 10 step test and end up falling victim/prey to what you are attempting to define as a "Toxic Faith" system. (Of course, only my system [church] is non-toxic, dontcha know.)
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TheHighWay
Good grief, Charlie Brown!!
Just how dead-on can they be?
10 for 10 by my count.
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outandabout
Yup.
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ChasUFarley
Hubby gave me that book to read when we first met. I was freshly out of TWI - like days fresh - and the book was painful to read then. Painful because it hit the bullseye on what I had experienced. I HIGHLY recommend this book - it's tough to read but you won't regret it. I had to take it in short bits. It's not a big book - something you could read in an afternoon - but it's thick in wisdom!
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Belle
O&A, I haven't read that book. Sounds like a great read. I may have to add that to my ever-increasing list of books I would like to get to.
Thanks for the excerpt. Does sound like TWI to a T.
It's just do darn scary that there are so many groups out there like TWI.
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johniam
The only ones that jump out at me are 3 and maybe 7. Overwhelming service? To some people sitting through 15 minutes of teaching is "overwhelming". Of course, those of you who were in TWI from mid to late 90s......?
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Ham
Only one that seems not to fit, on the SURFACE.
How well they could hide the problems..
get REALLY sick? You were outa there..
Emotionally distraught? You were "possessed"..
Easier to throw someone out than to explain the discrepency between their doctrine of health and prosperity and reality.
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Belle
John,
I can see how those of you involved back in the early days and under vee pee could say that you don't see how TWI fits that list...depending on where you were and who your leaders were, of course.
I didn't get involved till the early 90's, so I'll list what I think of when I see that list:
1. The members of the toxic faith system make claims about their character, abilities, or knowledge that make them "special" in some way.
I could go on, but I think you get the idea....
2. The leader is dictatorial and authoritarian.
It's a no-brainer that craig was like this. From stories I've heard about vee pee, he was too.
3. An "us versus them" mentality.
This is also a no-brainer. We didn't waste time on "rank unbelievers".
4. Toxic faith systems are punitive in nature.
Any refusal to follow the rules of TWI resulted in "mark & avoid", "face melting" sessions, being utterly embarrassed and yelled at in public, having the whole group learn private things about your life that's none of their business. The debt issue being one glaring example of that.
5. Adherants are asked to give overwhelming service.
Maybe you were only asked to go to a 15 minute teaching, but many of us spent hours cleaning the houses of leaders, babysitting their kids, going to those "15 minute teaching" fellowships three nights a week, attending Sunday service phone hook-ups, witnessing nights, leadership meetings, etc. etc. etc.
We didn't have a free minute to ourselves once we became involved with TWI.
6. Many members in the system are physically ill, emotionally distraught, and spiritually dead.
I don't know how one would document this, but I do know that, in hindsight, I was and I attribute it to the stress of trying to jump through all the hoops required of us. I recognize, now, how beaten down and depressed so many people in our area are/were.
7. Information is valid only if is comes from the top of the organization.
Also a no-brainer, imo.
8. Legalism - Rules are distortions of God's intent and leave Him out of the relationship.
There are threads upon threads about this.
9. Claims of being so tied into God that there is no need to be tied into people.
Not sure what this means. We didn't help people physically because the just "need the Word" and we didn't admit any needs that we may have had for fear of having our "believing" attacked. We also were supposed to "get our needs met in the fellowship."
10. Labeling - The technique of labeling is used to discount a person who opposes the beliefs of the toxic religion.
"egg sucking world"
"empty floating by" (body & soul people)
"natural man"
"no better than animals"
Catholic jokes out the wazoo
Utter disgust with trinitarians
Shall I go on?
TWI perpetuated and promoted disgust, hate and utter disregard for our fellow man.
I'd say it was toxic. Very toxic.
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nandon
yes, 10 for 10.
although, i'm not 100% sure about #8... rules leave god out?... i thought TWI had a TON of rules... maybe i'm reading this wrong.
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johniam
Belle: Yeah, we, well...I passed the baton to you in a sense. I was in from 76-94 and you were in first in 93 but sold out in 95..did I get that right? No, VP was smooth as Southern Comfort. If he was abbrasive to people close to him then he was, but you'd have never guessed that from seeing him teach at ROAs and stuff. Day by day life in TWI was NOT terrifying from 76-89 for me. Even when we got forced out in 94 it was awkward for the people who forced us out too. We were torn between "loyalty to the ministry that taught you the word" and self respect, but those that forced us out were too. They were hesitant to have "sawdust in their veins" like LCM ordered them to. Yeah, 94 was a difference maker all right.
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ChasUFarley
I was in from 1988-2000. I was basically "Jane Believer" - mostly an assistant TC, never Corps but a company woman, for the most part.
Overwhelming service looked something like this, in an average week:
Sunday - Phone hook-up (mandatory) at 2:30 PM - but remember, you have to do set up, so be there at 11am. Expect it to wrap up, including clean up, around 5pm.
Monday - Fellowship 7pm - set up has to be done by 6pm, so you start cleaning and preparing at 5pm.
Tuesday - Witnessing at the mall from 7-9pm.
Wednesday - Fellowship 7pm - set up has to be done by 6pm, so you start cleaning and preparing at 5pm.
Thursday - Corps Night (but since I'm not WC, I'm babysitting from 6pm until 11pm)
Friday - Fellowship 7pm - set up has to be done by 6pm, so you start cleaning and preparing at 5pm.
Saturday - Limb work day, Day in the Word, or a weekend mind-bending class.
Now, pepper this schedule with lots of call from people in the twig and leadership. Expect lots of little favors for this, that and the other...
And repeat this week 52 times a year... basically...
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What The Hey
All the "Word-Faith" churches (not just TWI) past this 10 step test and end up falling victim/prey to what you are attempting to define as a "Toxic Faith" system. (Of course, only my system [church] is non-toxic, dontcha know.)
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