It isn`t that I want to *kick em when they are down* or point my finger with derision at their efforts....sigh
I just wish that they had the confidence in their supporters and their doctrine to be honest about what is going on. I think to be open would be a step in healing and growth.
This hiding the problems and presenting a false front to the group is not going to aid in the growth or healing, nor help address the issues that have led them to this current crisis.
JS wrote a letter to the mailing list a few weeks ago...and, as DMiller said, it wasn’t specific.
Now The Sower comes out and you tell us it isn’t specific.
So we wonder.....why have JS and the BOD chosen not to 'honestly share how desperate the situation is'.
IMO, the bulk of your answer is that JS, DG and GandKT do not think the situation IS ‘desperate’.
Years ago when there was a desperate situation among the CES BOD, someone asked JS why...in the 2+ years of the crisis...he had done nothing about it. He replied, “I thought it would just blow over.”
Which leads me to another part of your answer. (IMO) A prideful attitude that some of us learned in TWI and some of us might not have gotten rid of yet: to use your words, the one that sees people as 'peons,' 'not spiritual enough' and 'regular folks.' An attitude that DISAGREES WITH GOD and allows for the possibility that I could be more important to Him than you. Whereas JS can quote we have all sinned and fallen short, we are all members in particular, God is no respector of persons, while we were sinners Christ died for all, God so loved the world, etc......his letter and The Sower, if correctly described here, do not SHOW it in practice.
You are SOOOOO right that the ‘love and prayers of 100s of people (not sure they have thousands) can do wonders’. Setting aside the EVIL manner in which they ALL signed on to treat E, had JS chosen to simply tell their mailing list even just the one clear fact that MG is suing DG, JB, JL and STF itself (notifying them that the organization they have been supporting is involved in a lawsuit!), perhaps God could have moved in some of those people who ‘trust and support them’ to call, email, visit, write MG to HELP HIM SEE the error of his ways! But instead, as you say, JS did not choose to do this.
In short,...in order to really be ‘determined to be on the mend’ one must think something needs to be mended.
It appears, however (this is conjecture based on what I’ve seen and heard and I’d love to be wrong), that JS, DG, GandKT feel that CES is back on the right road now that MG and TR can be outvoted on the BOD. And if that is true, then it is logical for CES to proceed as though it’s ‘business as usual’..... because to them, it is.
Sigh, I guess that I feel that in being silent, it smacks of a lack of confidence in the supporters of ces. ...of their compassion, their understanding and seriously underestimating the value of the prayers that could be generated if folks knew how dire the situation currently is.
JS wrote a letter to the mailing list a few weeks ago...and, as DMiller said, it wasn’t specific.
Now The Sower comes out and you tell us it isn’t specific.
So we wonder.....why have JS and the BOD chosen not to 'honestly share how desperate the situation is'.
Hello. No need to wonder. As I have mentioned on other threads, from a legal standpoint, there are limitations on what an individual or an organization can and cannot say when they are in the middle of a lawsuit.
In their letter, they told donors and constituents all that was permitted or prudent. The letter did not hide the matter, asked for prayers and invited those who were interested to call for more details. Have you called? I did.
Again, from a legal and public relations standpoint, that is all a small, non-profit organization can do in the litigious, finger-pointing culture we call the good ol' US of A. From a biblical standpoint, JL has taken it to the church (and beyond), the offending people have been "demoted" and if not for the lawsuit, I would imagine would have been entirely removed from leadership.
The board shake-up has been communicated. You know the situation. They know you know it. They've already asked for prayers.
That being said, I understand where you're coming from. You had a painful experience, lo those many years ago, and this reminds you of it, and for good reason. It's hard not to project the motives or outcomes from the past into this situation.
I agree that in the absence of a lawsuit, a letter from the President in the Sower and on the website and yes, even here on the GS would be appropriate and would go a long way toward repairing damaged trust, answering questions, diffusing criticism, healing hardened hearts, etc. A letter of honesty, amends, clarifications, lessons learned and plans for the future, written with gentle tact and taste, would go a long way.
It appears, however (this is conjecture based on what I’ve seen and heard and I’d love to be wrong), that JS, DG, GandKT feel that CES is back on the right road now that MG and TR can be outvoted on the BOD. And if that is true, then it is logical for CES to proceed as though it’s ‘business as usual’..... because to them, it is.
I have to agree with this.
I got my magazine in the mail a coupla days ago,
and the only difference was that the *president's column*,
was by John S., and not Mark G.
My talks with the folks there (e-mail and phone),
painted the same picture.
I.E. --- Hunky dory - we're doing GREAT!!!!.
I (for one) hope that they move through this mess,
but the lack of communication to those who support them,
Why on earth didn't the board fire/boot out Mark and Karen as cancer to the body of Christ? I don't care that their constitution forbids it. And yes John Schoenheit and John Lynn should have told everything about the lawsuit regardless of what their lawyers might advise them.
yep i got my jan/feb issue yesterday...don't they usually come out a little ahead of time not way behind? any way, it was remarkable for its blandness and there's a lead article by John Lynn who I always respected and never pictured becoming one of "them"...who allows their spouse to be so hideously maligned on such flimsy and ludicrous grounds ?Should I say what normal person? I heard a teaching one time about the danger of "knowledge"...that knowledge without direct experience and without direct fruit bearing only makes you more "religious".The whole thing is sad
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rascal
It isn`t that I want to *kick em when they are down* or point my finger with derision at their efforts....sigh
I just wish that they had the confidence in their supporters and their doctrine to be honest about what is going on. I think to be open would be a step in healing and growth.
This hiding the problems and presenting a false front to the group is not going to aid in the growth or healing, nor help address the issues that have led them to this current crisis.
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waterbuffalo
Reminds me of a saying I like, Rascal:
You're only as sick as your secrets.
Smacks of truth, imho. Could apply here, ya think?
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therebutforgrace
Amen, rascal...
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therebutforgrace
JS wrote a letter to the mailing list a few weeks ago...and, as DMiller said, it wasn’t specific.
Now The Sower comes out and you tell us it isn’t specific.
So we wonder.....why have JS and the BOD chosen not to 'honestly share how desperate the situation is'.
IMO, the bulk of your answer is that JS, DG and GandKT do not think the situation IS ‘desperate’.
Years ago when there was a desperate situation among the CES BOD, someone asked JS why...in the 2+ years of the crisis...he had done nothing about it. He replied, “I thought it would just blow over.”
Which leads me to another part of your answer. (IMO) A prideful attitude that some of us learned in TWI and some of us might not have gotten rid of yet: to use your words, the one that sees people as 'peons,' 'not spiritual enough' and 'regular folks.' An attitude that DISAGREES WITH GOD and allows for the possibility that I could be more important to Him than you. Whereas JS can quote we have all sinned and fallen short, we are all members in particular, God is no respector of persons, while we were sinners Christ died for all, God so loved the world, etc......his letter and The Sower, if correctly described here, do not SHOW it in practice.
You are SOOOOO right that the ‘love and prayers of 100s of people (not sure they have thousands) can do wonders’. Setting aside the EVIL manner in which they ALL signed on to treat E, had JS chosen to simply tell their mailing list even just the one clear fact that MG is suing DG, JB, JL and STF itself (notifying them that the organization they have been supporting is involved in a lawsuit!), perhaps God could have moved in some of those people who ‘trust and support them’ to call, email, visit, write MG to HELP HIM SEE the error of his ways! But instead, as you say, JS did not choose to do this.
In short,...in order to really be ‘determined to be on the mend’ one must think something needs to be mended.
It appears, however (this is conjecture based on what I’ve seen and heard and I’d love to be wrong), that JS, DG, GandKT feel that CES is back on the right road now that MG and TR can be outvoted on the BOD. And if that is true, then it is logical for CES to proceed as though it’s ‘business as usual’..... because to them, it is.
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rascal
Sigh, I guess that I feel that in being silent, it smacks of a lack of confidence in the supporters of ces. ...of their compassion, their understanding and seriously underestimating the value of the prayers that could be generated if folks knew how dire the situation currently is.
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Holy Smoke
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rascal
That would be really cool. I`d like to be mistaken in this instance.
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dmiller
I have to agree with this.
I got my magazine in the mail a coupla days ago,
and the only difference was that the *president's column*,
was by John S., and not Mark G.
My talks with the folks there (e-mail and phone),
painted the same picture.
I.E. --- Hunky dory - we're doing GREAT!!!!.
I (for one) hope that they move through this mess,
but the lack of communication to those who support them,
speaks volumes. :(
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socks
If a Board member falls down in the woods and no one's there to hear it...
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Why on earth didn't the board fire/boot out Mark and Karen as cancer to the body of Christ? I don't care that their constitution forbids it. And yes John Schoenheit and John Lynn should have told everything about the lawsuit regardless of what their lawyers might advise them.
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mdsnpp
yep i got my jan/feb issue yesterday...don't they usually come out a little ahead of time not way behind? any way, it was remarkable for its blandness and there's a lead article by John Lynn who I always respected and never pictured becoming one of "them"...who allows their spouse to be so hideously maligned on such flimsy and ludicrous grounds ?Should I say what normal person? I heard a teaching one time about the danger of "knowledge"...that knowledge without direct experience and without direct fruit bearing only makes you more "religious".The whole thing is sad
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Tzaia
No. Being on time with tapes and publications was a huge issue prior to DG's arrival.
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