Don't forget, we are told to reckon the old man dead. If he's up and walking, that old man nature might not like being reckoned dead.
***
What I was trying to say is that every human has to tolerate adversity and injustice, and though widely differing in timing and intensity, we all face the ultimate catastrophe, death, and that dwarfs most of the other previous mini-catastrophes.
So there’s a commonality we humans all share in dealing with the negative crap of life.
On top of that we OLGs have a vastly differing commonality. We OLGs saw something different for a while that was very positive. We OLGs who have seriously come back to that positive part now see it as even more positive.
***
Here’s what I mean about the statistics.
If we grads had been, instead of a Bible ministry, a tiddly-wink playing club of 100,000 who held tournaments of all sizes from home living rooms to giant hotels, then a certain number of human patterns of power trips and stepping on toes would surely emerge and a certain number us would have even died in the process. Some of us could then have gone on to decry the evils of tiddly-wink playing, and try to rid society of that scourge. A worthy thing to look into?
We were humans, and we were playing a much tougher game than tiddly-winks, and the stakes were higher, and so were the consequences and rewards. I think the rewards are worth looking into.
I never really realized it until Mike pointed out the parallel in post #46.
Yeah, ya see, they both wrote stuff and both are dead.
See how it all fits like a hand in one of those hand things?
Hey, MIKE, Karl Marx wrote stuff and he's dead, too.
Maybe he was the Apostle Paul of our day and time.
Whatta ya think?
"Speaking in tongues daily is a prerequisite to revelation."(key #3)
Sorry, MIKE, I don't see the word if in there, nor do I see it being implied.
It's a straight forward statement.
You then say that key #3 is a recommendation, not an absolute.
Does that mean that some things Dr. Wierwille said may not have been God breathed, just his personal recommendation?
How can I tell the difference between the two?
I'm anxious to know.
Let me just come out and say it.
I don't believe you have to speak in tongues on a daily basis to be able to receive revelation.
In fact, I don't think it has a darned thing to do with it.
Nor do I believe for a minute that SIT is "spiritual mashed potatoes"(As I once heard VPW call it) for the "baby" "Christ In You" that nourishes and strengthens it.
But, hey, that's just my opinion.
I'm looking forward to hearing your opinion on this matter.
I never really realized it until Mike pointed out the parallel in post #46.
Yeah, ya see, they both wrote stuff and both are dead.
See how it all fits like a hand in one of those hand things?
Hey, MIKE, Karl Marx wrote stuff and he's dead, too.
Maybe he was the Apostle Paul of our day and time.
Whatta ya think?
No, I didn’t point out a parallel.
I simply pointed out there that that the author being dead does not automatically mean his writings are useless.
I would be wrong if I asserted there that VPW being dead automatically put him in the same category as Moses, who is also dead. I was not asserting that at all, but it seems you thought I was.
No, I put Dr’s writings into the same category as Moses’ for reasons FAR REMOVED from the fact that they both died.
I simply pointed out there that that the author being dead does not automatically mean his writings are useless.
I would be wrong if I asserted there that VPW being dead automatically put him in the same category as Moses, who is also dead. I was not asserting that at all, but it seems you thought I was.
No, I put Dr’s writings into the same category as Moses’ for reasons FAR REMOVED from the fact that they both died.
Hi ya'll, I just have to say something here because I'm a little confused.
Mike, I'm gonna have to call BS on these statements. The point was made that man, i.e. human beings are needed to actually "preach". To this you did not disagree. But you did add that certain books (those of VP) "needed" someone to preach them. Another person disagreed that books "need" nothing and that God and/or Jesus Christ are the ones to be preached and not the words of a dead man. That is when you brought in Moses. Hence strongly implying a parallel between the two.
Hi ya'll, I just have to say something here because I'm a little confused.
Mike, I'm gonna have to call BS on these statements. The point was made that man, i.e. human beings are needed to actually "preach". To this you did not disagree. But you did add that certain books (those of VP) "needed" someone to preach them. Another person disagreed that books "need" nothing and that God and/or Jesus Christ are the ones to be preached and not the words of a dead man. That is when you brought in Moses. Hence strongly implying a parallel between the two.
Please explain your jumbled logic...if you can.
Howdy Eyesopen,
I’m not sure we’ve met here. Just to introduce myself, I’m strongly proPFAL. I came here to GreaseSpot with that conviction firmly planted.
I wasn’t trying to PROVE this assertion of mine, that PFAL is God-breathed, instead I ASSUME it. Often here people have mistaken statements of mine as proof of this assertion, but I always try to point out that is not the case.
Waysider quoted me to this effect just after your post with this assertion of mine and then asked the reasons. I have not provided those reasons on this thread, but I have on many other threads in the past.
Summarizing one the many thoughts that come up when these reasons are discussed, I don’t think it CAN be proved. Not like a mathematical theorem.
When the discussion gets around to these kinds of proofs, I bring up the question of “How does anyone ever know anything?”
Have you ever thought of how someone might try to prove that the KJV Bible reflects an ancient work that was the pure Word of God and not man?” The only way I’ve ever found to prove that FOR ONESELF is to believe it and see the results. The only way I’ve ever found to prove that FOR SOMEONE ELSE is to encourage them to believe it and see the results.
Hi ya'll, I just have to say something here because I'm a little confused.
Mike, I'm gonna have to call BS on these statements. The point was made that man, i.e. human beings are needed to actually "preach". To this you did not disagree. But you did add that certain books (those of VP) "needed" someone to preach them. Another person disagreed that books "need" nothing and that God and/or Jesus Christ are the ones to be preached and not the words of a dead man. That is when you brought in Moses. Hence strongly implying a parallel between the two.
wow!!!......mike!!!......i'm so glad you're here today!!!...........while you're here........would you answer a few questions for us?????
when you were on staff, years ago,.......were you in the research dept.??..........who was that lady who was a believer since the 1950's that you worked so closely with???.........what were some of the great truths about vic that she shared with you???.............how many hours, or days, or weeks, or years did you spend with dr. while you were there???........did you help him write any of his books??........did you work on the research team with him on any of the books??..........were you one of the "ghostwriters" of the "our times" columns in the magazine??......when did you graduate from the corps????.........did you spend a lot of time with dr. while you were in rez????..............did dr. personally hand you your certificate when you graduated from the corps???.........did you ever read any of his books together with him.....you know, like, out loud??......did you ever get to spend any quality time with him on the motorcoach??..........did he let you see that personal research library of his....behind the mantle of the fireplace in his office??......did you get to ask him a lot of questions about the bible and things he was working in the word??.....how did he personally impact your life back in the day???
thanks for answering these questions, mike...............you're the best!!.................................peace.
I remember some of the "don't look at the five senses" spin doctoring at times..
after he worked over the camera guy over in the advanced class..
"oh, it's because he's SOOOO spiritual, had to protect der household.."
why couldn't people just look at it honestly.. he was just a p***k.
Or loy. Honest to God. presented Bullinger's work on "the riddle of the spinx" as his own..
the most committed say, with eyes glazed over: "We are so THANKFUL for da MAN who brings new light to da ministry.."
Naw.. don't look at the senses. You might come to the conclusion that loyster was a con man, a thief.. a friggin idiot.. clutching at straws to find something to make himself look "important"..
i'm paid in full for the rest of the year mike...thanks for the answers??....oh, one more question.........when you were on staff back in the day.......did you hang out with mark gluckin?.......do you have any tapes from back then that he made for ya?........don't worry about the bandwith bill........god will supply!!
hoe 'bout some of those answers??........................................peacew
Waysider quoted me to this effect just after your post with this assertion of mine and then asked the reasons. I have not provided those reasons on this thread, but I have on many other threads in the past.
Would you be so kind as to point me to those reasons you have already posted?
I'm getting the feeling there's a conspiracy here to get me to derail this thread and fill it with my InfoMercial.
It's too bad you folks don't have any Search Skills, because most of those questions and topics I've already discussed here. The answers were posted, and many of them are still on the board. Some threads were purged (as were many threads of many posters) when the bandwidth bills were getting out of hand a few years ago.
hey mike!.........no need to pm me........just tell me here where the answers to my questions are here at the spot......i'll go find 'em........i really would like to know.......sorry everybody........mike just told me that he's already posted the answers here at the spot somewhere before.........does'nt want me to derail the thread.........that's cool........sorry.........but can you just post the locations of the threads those answers are on here for me real quick........thanks, mike!..........sorry about the derail.....................................peace.
i'm paid in full for the rest of the year mike...thanks for the answers??....oh, one more question.........when you were on staff back in the day.......did you hang out with mark gluckin?.......do you have any tapes from back then that he made for ya?........don't worry about the bandwith bill........god will supply!!
hoe 'bout some of those answers??........................................peacew
I knew Mark from the Rye days and set up a few Pressed Down concerts with him, before he went into the Corps. Yes, I did get a lot of tapes, but not from him. I worked in Tape Duplicating with Miney Shroyer, John's mother.
..but can you just post the locations of the threads those answers are on here for me real quick...
No. It would take time to find them... and some work.
How bad do you want the answers? How much work are you willing to do for them?
Key #? - Use the Search Function much. What you can know by your computer searches, Mike expects you to know.
thanks mike!.........the shroyers are a wonderful family!........miney was a great gal!.........must have been fun working with her!..............can you tell me the location of those other threads you mentioned........i wanna read 'em..........then this thread can get back on the rail!!......thanks again!................peace.
"Don't look at the five senses.." I've heard it a few times..
You might come to the conclusion that the guy who saw snow on the pumps in a warmer time of year might have been just SLIGHTLY "troubled", or is experiencing glaucoma at it's worst..
Or that maybe, just maybe, someone who has angels come down, and lie to them, see snowstorms that apparently nobody else can.. maybe, just maybe, might be slightly schizophrenic..
naw.. we don't NEED the five senses..
or a guy who almost poses as Jesus in one of his classes.. tells an Indian guy, "stretch for thy hand" or something like it..
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cman
you will die also Mike
-----------
there is a group out there that thinks they won't
might want to look em up
saw em on another board
but can't remember the name
i try and find them
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cman
found em
they call themselves 'death fighters'
which is really a game for one of those systems
but they came on that board looking for followers
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Mike
Don't forget, we are told to reckon the old man dead. If he's up and walking, that old man nature might not like being reckoned dead.
***
What I was trying to say is that every human has to tolerate adversity and injustice, and though widely differing in timing and intensity, we all face the ultimate catastrophe, death, and that dwarfs most of the other previous mini-catastrophes.
So there’s a commonality we humans all share in dealing with the negative crap of life.
On top of that we OLGs have a vastly differing commonality. We OLGs saw something different for a while that was very positive. We OLGs who have seriously come back to that positive part now see it as even more positive.
***
Here’s what I mean about the statistics.
If we grads had been, instead of a Bible ministry, a tiddly-wink playing club of 100,000 who held tournaments of all sizes from home living rooms to giant hotels, then a certain number of human patterns of power trips and stepping on toes would surely emerge and a certain number us would have even died in the process. Some of us could then have gone on to decry the evils of tiddly-wink playing, and try to rid society of that scourge. A worthy thing to look into?
We were humans, and we were playing a much tougher game than tiddly-winks, and the stakes were higher, and so were the consequences and rewards. I think the rewards are worth looking into.
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waysider
Breaking news!
VPW was the "Moses" of our day and age!
I never really realized it until Mike pointed out the parallel in post #46.
Yeah, ya see, they both wrote stuff and both are dead.
See how it all fits like a hand in one of those hand things?
Hey, MIKE, Karl Marx wrote stuff and he's dead, too.
Maybe he was the Apostle Paul of our day and time.
Whatta ya think?
"Speaking in tongues daily is a prerequisite to revelation."(key #3)
Sorry, MIKE, I don't see the word if in there, nor do I see it being implied.
It's a straight forward statement.
You then say that key #3 is a recommendation, not an absolute.
Does that mean that some things Dr. Wierwille said may not have been God breathed, just his personal recommendation?
How can I tell the difference between the two?
I'm anxious to know.
Let me just come out and say it.
I don't believe you have to speak in tongues on a daily basis to be able to receive revelation.
In fact, I don't think it has a darned thing to do with it.
Nor do I believe for a minute that SIT is "spiritual mashed potatoes"(As I once heard VPW call it) for the "baby" "Christ In You" that nourishes and strengthens it.
But, hey, that's just my opinion.
I'm looking forward to hearing your opinion on this matter.
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Mike
No, I didn’t point out a parallel.
I simply pointed out there that that the author being dead does not automatically mean his writings are useless.
I would be wrong if I asserted there that VPW being dead automatically put him in the same category as Moses, who is also dead. I was not asserting that at all, but it seems you thought I was.
No, I put Dr’s writings into the same category as Moses’ for reasons FAR REMOVED from the fact that they both died.
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Eyesopen
Hi ya'll, I just have to say something here because I'm a little confused.
Mike, I'm gonna have to call BS on these statements. The point was made that man, i.e. human beings are needed to actually "preach". To this you did not disagree. But you did add that certain books (those of VP) "needed" someone to preach them. Another person disagreed that books "need" nothing and that God and/or Jesus Christ are the ones to be preached and not the words of a dead man. That is when you brought in Moses. Hence strongly implying a parallel between the two.
Please explain your jumbled logic...if you can.
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waysider
And those reasons would be--------------------------??
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Mike
Howdy Eyesopen,
I’m not sure we’ve met here. Just to introduce myself, I’m strongly proPFAL. I came here to GreaseSpot with that conviction firmly planted.
I wasn’t trying to PROVE this assertion of mine, that PFAL is God-breathed, instead I ASSUME it. Often here people have mistaken statements of mine as proof of this assertion, but I always try to point out that is not the case.
Waysider quoted me to this effect just after your post with this assertion of mine and then asked the reasons. I have not provided those reasons on this thread, but I have on many other threads in the past.
Summarizing one the many thoughts that come up when these reasons are discussed, I don’t think it CAN be proved. Not like a mathematical theorem.
When the discussion gets around to these kinds of proofs, I bring up the question of “How does anyone ever know anything?”
Have you ever thought of how someone might try to prove that the KJV Bible reflects an ancient work that was the pure Word of God and not man?” The only way I’ve ever found to prove that FOR ONESELF is to believe it and see the results. The only way I’ve ever found to prove that FOR SOMEONE ELSE is to encourage them to believe it and see the results.
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pawtucket
There goes the bandwidth bill!!!
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Ham
I could understand the statment if you put it "I put "dr's" writings in the same category as Leonard's, Stiles, Kenyon's, Bullinger's.."
Mostly it was THEIR writings, to begin with.
You could hardly call their writings, or any possible arrangment of them as being "der WORD of GOD"..
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Mike
Well, paw, I see you haven't lost your delicate sense of humor.
Well Ham, I'd urge you,
don't look at the senses.
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DontWorryBeHappy
wow!!!......mike!!!......i'm so glad you're here today!!!...........while you're here........would you answer a few questions for us?????
when you were on staff, years ago,.......were you in the research dept.??..........who was that lady who was a believer since the 1950's that you worked so closely with???.........what were some of the great truths about vic that she shared with you???.............how many hours, or days, or weeks, or years did you spend with dr. while you were there???........did you help him write any of his books??........did you work on the research team with him on any of the books??..........were you one of the "ghostwriters" of the "our times" columns in the magazine??......when did you graduate from the corps????.........did you spend a lot of time with dr. while you were in rez????..............did dr. personally hand you your certificate when you graduated from the corps???.........did you ever read any of his books together with him.....you know, like, out loud??......did you ever get to spend any quality time with him on the motorcoach??..........did he let you see that personal research library of his....behind the mantle of the fireplace in his office??......did you get to ask him a lot of questions about the bible and things he was working in the word??.....how did he personally impact your life back in the day???
thanks for answering these questions, mike...............you're the best!!.................................peace.
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Mike
There goes the bandwidth bill!!!
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waysider
Gee, I would have thought your response to those questions would have elicited a rather short post.
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Ham
I remember some of the "don't look at the five senses" spin doctoring at times..
after he worked over the camera guy over in the advanced class..
"oh, it's because he's SOOOO spiritual, had to protect der household.."
why couldn't people just look at it honestly.. he was just a p***k.
Or loy. Honest to God. presented Bullinger's work on "the riddle of the spinx" as his own..
the most committed say, with eyes glazed over: "We are so THANKFUL for da MAN who brings new light to da ministry.."
Naw.. don't look at the senses. You might come to the conclusion that loyster was a con man, a thief.. a friggin idiot.. clutching at straws to find something to make himself look "important"..
it was one of those surreal moments..
I'd read Bullinger already.
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DontWorryBeHappy
i'm paid in full for the rest of the year mike...thanks for the answers??....oh, one more question.........when you were on staff back in the day.......did you hang out with mark gluckin?.......do you have any tapes from back then that he made for ya?........don't worry about the bandwith bill........god will supply!!
hoe 'bout some of those answers??........................................peacew
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waysider
Would you be so kind as to point me to those reasons you have already posted?
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cman
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/index....&spanend=73
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/index....&spanend=73
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/index....&spanend=73
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/index....&spanend=73
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/index....&spanend=73
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Mike
I'm getting the feeling there's a conspiracy here to get me to derail this thread and fill it with my InfoMercial.
It's too bad you folks don't have any Search Skills, because most of those questions and topics I've already discussed here. The answers were posted, and many of them are still on the board. Some threads were purged (as were many threads of many posters) when the bandwidth bills were getting out of hand a few years ago.
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DontWorryBeHappy
hey mike!.........no need to pm me........just tell me here where the answers to my questions are here at the spot......i'll go find 'em........i really would like to know.......sorry everybody........mike just told me that he's already posted the answers here at the spot somewhere before.........does'nt want me to derail the thread.........that's cool........sorry.........but can you just post the locations of the threads those answers are on here for me real quick........thanks, mike!..........sorry about the derail.....................................peace.
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Mike
I knew Mark from the Rye days and set up a few Pressed Down concerts with him, before he went into the Corps. Yes, I did get a lot of tapes, but not from him. I worked in Tape Duplicating with Miney Shroyer, John's mother.
No. It would take time to find them... and some work.
How bad do you want the answers? How much work are you willing to do for them?
Key #? - Use the Search Function much. What you can know by your computer searches, Mike expects you to know.
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DontWorryBeHappy
thanks mike!.........the shroyers are a wonderful family!........miney was a great gal!.........must have been fun working with her!..............can you tell me the location of those other threads you mentioned........i wanna read 'em..........then this thread can get back on the rail!!......thanks again!................peace.
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Mike
Your many questions demand many threads and many minutes to find them.
Why don't you just read all my posts?
Instead of starting at the beginning, though, you might start here:
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=9131
which then continues on this one:
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=9646
Quite a few of your answers are there, I think.
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Ham
"Don't look at the five senses.." I've heard it a few times..
You might come to the conclusion that the guy who saw snow on the pumps in a warmer time of year might have been just SLIGHTLY "troubled", or is experiencing glaucoma at it's worst..
Or that maybe, just maybe, someone who has angels come down, and lie to them, see snowstorms that apparently nobody else can.. maybe, just maybe, might be slightly schizophrenic..
naw.. we don't NEED the five senses..
or a guy who almost poses as Jesus in one of his classes.. tells an Indian guy, "stretch for thy hand" or something like it..
too bad the pictures didn't turn out..
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