Not Really ,most Christians support their countries laws and the rights of each individual to a fair hearing. Most support the rights we have both in Christ and in the world we live in one does not negate the other. I repeat again for the billionth time I never excused anyone of any crime I have only asked that they have the same rights that we all are guaranteed in our country. Once that due process has occurred I fine with the verdict IT HAS ZERO NOTHING TO DO WITH MY VIEW OF TWI OR VPW. It has to do with honest fair and balanced rights for all.
Honest fair and balanced rights for all....????
Yeah, riiiiight.
Wierwille had stacked the deck to HIS favor:
.......1) His authority and presence totally intimidated most young corps girls.
.......2) His inner-circle prepared other girls for "the experience"
.......3) He studied those "From Birth to Corps" papers and preyed on the vulnerable.
.......4) His motorcoach was an "inner-sanctum snake pit" of exploitation and abuse.
.......5) His bodyguards and aides were groomed to secrecy and seduction.
.......6) Wierwille trashed the reputation of all who opposed him with the "possessed" label.
.......7) Wierwille died prematurely.....perhaps, conveniently or he would have had his day in court.
.......8) Wierwille showed his porno-dog flick for public consumption on several occasions.......
.......9) Wierwille pushed behavior modification techniques in his "renewed mind/ lockbox"
.......10) Wierwille taught martindale to be "MORE" than he was........yikes!!!
What is it about you and Dove that require you to take to task anyone whom doesn`t share your pov?
That's just it, it is not enough for you to share your point of view I have no problem, if that was what you did. But you don't . You post things as fact, truth that have no evidence as such you refuse to document your accusations as alleged when you know that is the proper thing to do until such time as you have some documentable record. Just why is that if you have no ax to grind? Just why won't you do that which anyone knows is common sense? Watch the news for a few days and see how undocumented information is spoken of read the manual that CMAN posted a few pages back and see how to refer to such information read a newspaper and see what they do. The truth is there has been ample things posted on why this is the correct way to speak and yet you choose to dismiss all the people who's job it is to know such things and post information as true that has not been established as such. I'd say that leads me to believe that you have an ax to grind people who do not use proper terminology.
.......1) His authority and presence totally intimidated most young corps girls.
.......2) His inner-circle prepared other girls for "the experience"
.......3) He studied those "From Birth to Corps" papers and preyed on the vulnerable.
.......4) His motorcoach was an "inner-sanctum snake pit" of exploitation and abuse.
.......5) His bodyguards and aides were groomed to secrecy and seduction.
.......6) Wierwille trashed the reputation of all who opposed him with the "possessed" label.
.......7) Wierwille died prematurely.....perhaps, conveniently or he would have had his day in court.
.......8) Wierwille showed his porno-dog flick for public consumption on several occasions.......
.......9) Wierwille pushed behavior modification techniques in his "renewed mind/ lockbox"
.......10) Wierwille taught martindale to be "MORE" than he was........yikes!!!
So....WD, run that by me once again.
"Honest fair and balanced rights"................
:blink:
Don't misquote me out of context of what I said
[edited to remove ad hominem argument]
Not Really ,most Christians support their countries laws and the rights of each individual to a fair hearing. Most support the rights we have both in Christ and in the world we live in one does not negate the other. I repeat again for the billionth time I never excused anyone of any crime I have only asked that they have the same rights that we all are guaranteed in our country. Once that due process has occurred I fine with the verdict IT HAS ZERO NOTHING TO DO WITH MY VIEW OF TWI OR VPW. It has to do with honest fair and balanced rights for all.
Clearly I spoke of fair rights that we enjoy in this country
If things were balanced and fair in twi ..there would have been no need for this sight.
The thing is...I don`t think that anybody has ever denied that what Dove and Pond experienced happened. There were great times in twi...nobody stalks THEM post to post telling one horror story for every *positive* spoken about twi...nobody claims THEY are mentally ill or delusional, that THEY have an axe to grind :(
If things were balanced and fair in twi ..there would have been no need for this sight.
The thing is...I don`t think that anybody has ever denied that what Dove and Pond experienced happened. There were great times in twi...nobody stalks THEM post to post telling one horror story for every *positive* spoken about twi...nobody claims THEY are mentally ill or delusional, that THEY have an axe to grind :(
It isn`t fair NOR balanced.
Really? post something pro Way and see how fast the pack come to dismantle it. Thanks for all the laughs today Rascal............. Oh I see you changed the subject again it did not slide by me I gues you don't count the experiance of those who know how to referance things as well. Does that fall into the Duke trial record bin as well doesn't fit with your agenda therefore it does not count.
WhiteDove.......for one who seems to hold to Christian truths and ethics, you seem to be taking the non-Christian approach toward such matters.
Have you not read......??
It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife [1 Cor. 5:1].
Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints [1 Cor. 6:1].
Sure.....go ahead and talk about DNA evidence, eye-witness accounts, etc. etc. All your legal mumbo-jumbo does NOT even begin to counter THE COMMONLY REPORTED SEXUAL PREDATION WITHIN TWI by your beloved wierwille, and later martindale.....imo.
Besides......many of these (corps) women are talking about sexual predation IN A CULT, IN THE BACK BEDROOM OF THE MOG'S MOTORCOACH, WITH BODYGUARD STATIONED OUTSIDE THE MOTORCOACH KEEPING WATCH, IN THE 70'S OR EARLY 80'S..............and for those who refused wierwille's "advances" or pi$$ed off by what had just occurred, she was given the bum's rush and sent packing in the middle of the night, traumatized by the whole ordeal and had to re-live the whole ordeal if she went to the local authorities (new knoxville? emporia? rome city? gunnison? nowhere?) where the locals pegged twi as a cult environment.......AND not too much dna evidence was talked about 30 years ago.
Go ahead, WhiteDove........stay on your legal-beagle track of semantics and legal terminology......BUT even the Apostle Paul dealt with things that were REPORTED COMMONLY AMONG THE SAINTS.
Seems to me, WhiteDove.....that you like to dance around on both sides of the issue.....always favoring your beloved pfal and twi memories. Yet, having NEVER BEEN WOW OR CORPS......YOU HAVE NO IDEA the human dynamics involved, nor the immense psychological and emotional entanglements that were built-in to these programs via peer pressure and the isolated cult environment.
Gee, WD..........you keep bringing up "rights" and "verdicts" and legal stuff.......BUT did you not see what the
Apostle Paul initiated to the Church?
When things were COMMONLY REPORTED......Paul dealt with it.
When things were COMMONLY REPORTED......Paul wasn't wishy-washy with legal terminology and dna evidence.
When things were COMMONLY REPORTED......Paul saw a pattern of evil and exposed it.
With twi.........wierwille "created an environment" of LOCKBOX, INNER-CIRCLE SECRETS, THE SPIRITUALLY-MATURE DOCTRINE TO HANDLE SEX, THE DOG-PORN FLICK, ACCESS TO CORPS GIRLS.
Side-step it all you want.............it happened.
Exactly and I am exercising mine to point out that along with that their are restrictions for that free speech such as not yelling fire in a crowded room and not referring to someone as guilty until you have a record of such. Don't believe me ask Raf he works in the media he can tell you that it is not acceptable.
WE have the records, like it or not.
Too bad so sad that you are so mad.
Really? post something pro Way and see how fast the pack come to dismantle it.
A lot of pro stuff from the way has been posted and not 'dismantled' as you say.
Paul also dealt with people face to face with testimony they had to be verified by two or three witness, they were willing to go to that person and say hey we have a problem with what YOU DID!
then go to the church which was NOT without a face or a name , they stood face to face not on an public internet with zero accountability.
[edited to remove ad hominem]
you compared what Paul said .. I address that point in my comment.
two different times and methods of communication are presented how can you possibly compare them?
they knew each other well, face to face, and had all things common, the internet is a far cry from that community is it not?
Danny, if what you say were true, it would make sense....an employee for twi would have monetary gain for their actions here. One could understand the rancor with which the posters were treated...one could understand his need to shore up twi`s reputation...the willingness to justify the assault on innocent.
quote]
You wascally wabbit, please get your facts straighter, honey. I did get a good LOL for the day, however. Thanks for that. But, just so you know, no one working for TWI or a limb office makes one extra cent. Trust me. I worked at the limb office in New York and at HQ. I ate lots of chicken boullion soup for lunch so's I wouldn't have to eat in the "basement" at HQ. I'm nauseous already. Anyway, I did run to my trailer to watch my soap. Ha. Good thing no one caught on ....
Paul also dealt with people face to face with testimony they had to be verified by two or three witness, they were willing to go to that person and say hey we have a problem with what YOU DID!
true. Unfortunately in der vey, they tossed the "Pauls" out on their ear, and fouled their name with descriptions of devil possession so no one would believe them..
most of those who confronted met answers such as "well, it's ok if you're spurtual enough.."
then they didn't last much longer in "gawd's" ministry..
That's just it, it is not enough for you to share your point of view I have no problem, if that was what you did. But you don't . You post things as fact, truth that have no evidence as such you refuse to document your accusations as alleged when you know that is the proper thing to do until such time as you have some documentable record. Just why is that if you have no ax to grind? Just why won't you do that which anyone knows is common sense? Watch the news for a few days and see how undocumented information is spoken of read the manual that CMAN posted a few pages back and see how to refer to such information read a newspaper and see what they do. The truth is there has been ample things posted on why this is the correct way to speak and yet you choose to dismiss all the people who's job it is to know such things and post information as true that has not been established as such. I'd say that leads me to believe that you have an ax to grind people who do not use proper terminology.
OMG you're hilarious WD.
1) shield law, baby. media does not have to disclose their sources.
2) media makes up all kind s of stuff they have to recant later after investigation.
3) if what is written here is slanderous/libelous, then vpw's heirs have the right to bring civil suit for damages. however, with the great cloud of witnesses I pointed out before, it's unlikely a court of law would find in their favor, as the combined eyewitness accounts of so many victims carries a great deal of weight in such cases.
4)vpw is dead. he can't be prosecuted for his criminal acts. doesn't mean his victims can't talk about it. like I said, his heirs can prosecute if they think they can prove his victims are lying to discredit his name and reputation or to gain some benefit by it.
there, both sides get their rights protected. now stop telling people to shut up.
1) shield law, baby. media does not have to disclose their sources.
I don't recall that I said they did nor have I said any poster needed to as well.
2) media makes up all kind s of stuff they have to recant later after investigation.
Most people know that the media does not generally go out of their way to misrepresent things. While some may lean toward their specific POV they don't refer to criminals as guilty until such time as they have some credible reason to do so. On occasion there are a few that take on a life of their own like Dan I hate Bush so much I just make up the news Rather. They don't last long, and are not the posterboy for how to report a story and, generally are delt with in the same manner as he was.
3) if what is written here is slanderous/libelous, then vpw's heirs have the right to bring civil suit for damages. however, with the great cloud of witnesses I pointed out before, it's unlikely a court of law would find in their favor, as the combined eyewitness accounts of so many victims carries a great deal of weight in such cases.
4)vpw is dead. he can't be prosecuted for his criminal acts. doesn't mean his victims can't talk about it. like I said, his heirs can prosecute if they think they can prove his victims are lying to discredit his name and reputation or to gain some benefit by it.
Correct but I doubt they will they have other things in life to attend to I'm sure. So are you fine with the same system for you can one just say whatever they like about you and then you have to deal with it. Is that how life really works? I don't think it is.
there, both sides get their rights protected. now stop telling people to shut up.
Again I'll point out that I never asked anyone to shut up only to speak factually when making accusations about someone.
Correct but I doubt they will they have other things in life to attend to I'm sure. So are you fine with the same system for you can one just say whatever they like about you and then you have to deal with it. Is that how life really works? I don't think it is.
Yes, at least the media is accountable to a degree for their reporting.
YET............I sat through dozens of corps meetings/ staff meetings where WIERWILLE or MARTINDALE totally trashed the corps/staff person leaving. Whatever they said didn't have to have one bit of factual evidence!! None. Zippo. Nada.
Wierwille could label an exitee as a "cop out".....or "possessed as a new boot in hell"......and the wierwille-followers hung on his every word. After all, he was the mog......and surely, HE wouldn't lie.
Martindale took his character assassination speil to new heights.......heck, he'd trash the reputation of some corps person who had just died!! Martindale would dredge up some little incident from their past (true or not.... who would know?)......and then, build a "mountain of evidence" around it. Or, if a high-profile corps leader exited twi........the accusations and made-up sh1t escalated proportionately.
And, Geer.......in his poop paper called the trustees "murderers." In August 1986, when I talked face-to-face with Ricardo about this accusation........Ricardo explained the incident in detail, and passed it off as Geer's interpretation in exagerated terminology.
Thank you Greasespotters for keeping your accountability and integrity HIGHER than what I evidenced from wierwille, martindale or geer.
WD, you don't just ask people to speak factually. you have no basis to assume they aren't, yet you accuse them of making stuff up all the time.
I don't have the time or money to take twi and their minions to court to prove any case I have against their actions. doesn't make my experience non-factual. the facts could be proven, but it would take free access to twi's records and unhindered memory of other parties present. I already know that the innies involved have conveniently forgotten what occurred. I will continue to relate the facts of my case as I see fit. it is my right.
Not only that, there is this pesky little thing called the statute of limitations that has eliminated a lot of us from taking twi to task legally.
This isn`t a legal court, we are free to talk about our experiences. Dove isn`t required to prove in a court of law that his experiences are any more true or factual than ours...yet he feels he is to be allowed freely to post of his experiences unhindered....while calling into question the validity and reputation of any whom post of the more unpleasant aspects of twi.
Not only that, there is this pesky little thing called the statute of limitations that has eliminated a lot of us from taking twi to task legally.
This isn`t a legal court, we are free to talk about our experiences. Dove isn`t required to prove in a court of law that his experiences are any more true or factual than ours...yet he feels he is to be allowed freely to post of his experiences unhindered....while calling into question the validity and reputation of any whom post of the more unpleasant aspects of twi.
Let`s keep it fair and balanced indeed.
Last I looked no one hindered you from posting what you had to say. it looks like there are pages of your posts. I am free to offer my opinion as well to point out that your opinion may or may not be factual and that the lack of proof puts it in the catagory of aledged until such time as there is documentation otherwise.
An alleged incident is an event that is said to have taken place but has not yet been verified.
WD, you don't just ask people to speak factually. you have no basis to assume they aren't, yet you accuse them of making stuff up all the time.
I don't have the time or money to take twi and their minions to court to prove any case I have against their actions. doesn't make my experience non-factual. the facts could be proven, but it would take free access to twi's records and unhindered memory of other parties present. I already know that the innies involved have conveniently forgotten what occurred. I will continue to relate the facts of my case as I see fit. it is my right.
Your correct that is exactly what it would take and if you don't do that then you don't get to change the word meaning anyway not having fulfilled the requirements that you yourself admit need to happen to prove you case. Lack of time or money don't change the alleged information to truth it does not work that way ,you must meet the conditions before it can properly referred to as true. Until that is accomplished it is alleged.
An alleged incident is an event that is said to have taken place but has not yet been verified.
Your correct that is exactly what it would take and if you don't do that then you don't get to change the word meaning anyway not having fulfilled the requirements that you yourself admit need to happen to prove you case. Lack of time or money don't change the alleged information to truth it does not work that way ,you must meet the conditions before it can properly referred to as true. Until that is accomplished it is alleged.
An alleged incident is an event that is said to have taken place but has not yet been verified.
so what? I'm not pleading a case in court, I'm not a newspaper reporter, and I'm not a law enforcement officer. I'm under no obligation to use the word alleged. everything on this site is the opinion of the poster. I'm giving testimony from my experience, which is established for me and the people who know me as fact. you're under no obligation to believe it, neither is anyone else. I don't post the things I do to convince anyone else I experience what I did. either people relate, or they don't. people who posted the same things I experienced helped me realize how screwed up my life in twi really was. I didn't need them to pull documentation out of their @$$ before their experiences helped me.
so what? I'm not pleading a case in court, I'm not a newspaper reporter, and I'm not a law enforcement officer. I'm under no obligation to use the word alleged. everything on this site is the opinion of the poster. I'm giving testimony from my experience, which is established for me and the people who know me as fact. you're under no obligation to believe it, neither is anyone else. I don't post the things I do to convince anyone else I experience what I did. either people relate, or they don't. people who posted the same things I experienced helped me realize how screwed up my life in twi really was. I didn't need them to pull documentation out of their @$$ before their experiences helped me.
Well it would seem logical that a group that seems bent on taking VPW to task on the integrity of his words would want to speak with integrity themselves lest they be in the same category......... It's a little hypercritical to point out someone else's faults when you do the same yourself, when your words have no integrity, because you don't like the truth of what a word means. It's quite clear that what I said holds true and clear as well as you have admitted that one would need to fulfill the things you listed to properly move the charge from alleged to True. the problem is you don't like it that that’s just the way it is so you think your personal dislike qualifies you to just ignore reality and post whatever you like.
Well it would seem logical that a group that seems bent on taking VPW to task on the integrity of his words would want to speak with integrity themselves lest they be in the same category......... It's a little hypercritical to point out someone else's faults when you do the same yourself, when your words have no integrity, because you don't like the truth of what a word means. It's quite clear that what I said holds true and clear as well as you have admitted that one would need to fulfill the things you listed to properly move the charge from alleged to True. the problem is you don't like it that that’s just the way it is so you think your personal dislike qualifies you to just ignore reality and post whatever you like.
I wasn't arguing the meaning of words, I'm just saying your arguments are irrelevant.
my words do have integrity. I thought it was clear that what I meant was proof of they type you require, submitted in a court of law, since that's where allegations typically require proof of the kind you drone on about and you've been hell-bent on holding us to legal standards. then yes, I could hand you "proof". it would not, however, make my words or my experiences any more factual or true. as was pointed out to you earlier, statute of limitations have run out for most of us. doesn't mean we can't talk about the crimes committed, nor are we required to use the word alleged when making our allegations.
clearly I'll have to make sure I supply you with abundant context from now on so you can't pull my words out of the supplied context and accuse me of speaking without integrity.
I am free to offer my opinion as well to point out that your opinion may or may not be factual and that the lack of proof puts it in the catagory of aledged until such time as there is documentation otherwise.
An alleged incident is an event that is said to have taken place but has not yet been verified.
Not any more your not.
Our experiences in twi are facts. They happened, and as long as they happened to us personally, when relating the incident....we are under NO obligation to say *alleged* discussing them.
I wasn't arguing the meaning of words, I'm just saying your arguments are irrelevant.
my words do have integrity. I thought it was clear that what I meant was proof of they type you require, submitted in a court of law, since that's where allegations typically require proof of the kind you drone on about and you've been hell-bent on holding us to legal standards. then yes, I could hand you "proof". it would not, however, make my words or my experiences any more factual or true. as was pointed out to you earlier, statute of limitations have run out for most of us. doesn't mean we can't talk about the crimes committed, nor are we required to use the word alleged when making our allegations.
clearly I'll have to make sure I supply you with abundant context from now on so you can't pull my words out of the supplied context and accuse me of speaking without integrity.
You seem to want to imply that alleged is somehow tied only to a legal court system it is not, that is not what it says. Read the definition
An alleged incident.........IS ..........an event.............that is said..........to have taken place..........BUT ........has not been verified. Until such a event is verified (does not mean you say so) the proper English is to refer to the event as alleged. and yes if you are going to hold every word that came out of someone else's mouth to cross microscopic examination then yours should meet the same standard if your honest.
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skyrider
Honest fair and balanced rights for all....????
Yeah, riiiiight.
Wierwille had stacked the deck to HIS favor:
.......1) His authority and presence totally intimidated most young corps girls.
.......2) His inner-circle prepared other girls for "the experience"
.......3) He studied those "From Birth to Corps" papers and preyed on the vulnerable.
.......4) His motorcoach was an "inner-sanctum snake pit" of exploitation and abuse.
.......5) His bodyguards and aides were groomed to secrecy and seduction.
.......6) Wierwille trashed the reputation of all who opposed him with the "possessed" label.
.......7) Wierwille died prematurely.....perhaps, conveniently or he would have had his day in court.
.......8) Wierwille showed his porno-dog flick for public consumption on several occasions.......
.......9) Wierwille pushed behavior modification techniques in his "renewed mind/ lockbox"
.......10) Wierwille taught martindale to be "MORE" than he was........yikes!!!
So....WD, run that by me once again.
"Honest fair and balanced rights"................
:blink:
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WhiteDove
That's just it, it is not enough for you to share your point of view I have no problem, if that was what you did. But you don't . You post things as fact, truth that have no evidence as such you refuse to document your accusations as alleged when you know that is the proper thing to do until such time as you have some documentable record. Just why is that if you have no ax to grind? Just why won't you do that which anyone knows is common sense? Watch the news for a few days and see how undocumented information is spoken of read the manual that CMAN posted a few pages back and see how to refer to such information read a newspaper and see what they do. The truth is there has been ample things posted on why this is the correct way to speak and yet you choose to dismiss all the people who's job it is to know such things and post information as true that has not been established as such. I'd say that leads me to believe that you have an ax to grind people who do not use proper terminology.
Edited by WhiteDoveLink to comment
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WhiteDove
Don't misquote me out of context of what I said
[edited to remove ad hominem argument]
Clearly I spoke of fair rights that we enjoy in this country
[edited to remove ad hominem argument
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rascal
If things were balanced and fair in twi ..there would have been no need for this sight.
The thing is...I don`t think that anybody has ever denied that what Dove and Pond experienced happened. There were great times in twi...nobody stalks THEM post to post telling one horror story for every *positive* spoken about twi...nobody claims THEY are mentally ill or delusional, that THEY have an axe to grind :(
It isn`t fair NOR balanced.
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WhiteDove
Really? post something pro Way and see how fast the pack come to dismantle it. Thanks for all the laughs today Rascal............. Oh I see you changed the subject again it did not slide by me I gues you don't count the experiance of those who know how to referance things as well. Does that fall into the Duke trial record bin as well doesn't fit with your agenda therefore it does not count.
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skyrider
Gee, WD..........you keep bringing up "rights" and "verdicts" and legal stuff.......BUT did you not see what the
Apostle Paul initiated to the Church?
When things were COMMONLY REPORTED......Paul dealt with it.
When things were COMMONLY REPORTED......Paul wasn't wishy-washy with legal terminology and dna evidence.
When things were COMMONLY REPORTED......Paul saw a pattern of evil and exposed it.
With twi.........wierwille "created an environment" of LOCKBOX, INNER-CIRCLE SECRETS, THE SPIRITUALLY-MATURE DOCTRINE TO HANDLE SEX, THE DOG-PORN FLICK, ACCESS TO CORPS GIRLS.
Side-step it all you want.............it happened.
Go ahead
[edited to remove ad hominem argument]
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cman
WE have the records, like it or not.
Too bad so sad that you are so mad.
A lot of pro stuff from the way has been posted and not 'dismantled' as you say.
Are you aware of all that is posted here. No.
You are just trying your best to start a fight.
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pond
Paul also dealt with people face to face with testimony they had to be verified by two or three witness, they were willing to go to that person and say hey we have a problem with what YOU DID!
then go to the church which was NOT without a face or a name , they stood face to face not on an public internet with zero accountability.
[edited to remove ad hominem]
you compared what Paul said .. I address that point in my comment.
two different times and methods of communication are presented how can you possibly compare them?
they knew each other well, face to face, and had all things common, the internet is a far cry from that community is it not?
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WhiteDove
Yeah well I can read and I do..........
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cman
[ad hominem removed]
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irisheyes
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Ham
true. Unfortunately in der vey, they tossed the "Pauls" out on their ear, and fouled their name with descriptions of devil possession so no one would believe them..
most of those who confronted met answers such as "well, it's ok if you're spurtual enough.."
then they didn't last much longer in "gawd's" ministry..
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potato
OMG you're hilarious WD.
1) shield law, baby. media does not have to disclose their sources.
2) media makes up all kind s of stuff they have to recant later after investigation.
3) if what is written here is slanderous/libelous, then vpw's heirs have the right to bring civil suit for damages. however, with the great cloud of witnesses I pointed out before, it's unlikely a court of law would find in their favor, as the combined eyewitness accounts of so many victims carries a great deal of weight in such cases.
4)vpw is dead. he can't be prosecuted for his criminal acts. doesn't mean his victims can't talk about it. like I said, his heirs can prosecute if they think they can prove his victims are lying to discredit his name and reputation or to gain some benefit by it.
there, both sides get their rights protected. now stop telling people to shut up.
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WhiteDove
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skyrider
Quote from WD:
Yes, at least the media is accountable to a degree for their reporting.
YET............I sat through dozens of corps meetings/ staff meetings where WIERWILLE or MARTINDALE totally trashed the corps/staff person leaving. Whatever they said didn't have to have one bit of factual evidence!! None. Zippo. Nada.
Wierwille could label an exitee as a "cop out".....or "possessed as a new boot in hell"......and the wierwille-followers hung on his every word. After all, he was the mog......and surely, HE wouldn't lie.
Martindale took his character assassination speil to new heights.......heck, he'd trash the reputation of some corps person who had just died!! Martindale would dredge up some little incident from their past (true or not.... who would know?)......and then, build a "mountain of evidence" around it. Or, if a high-profile corps leader exited twi........the accusations and made-up sh1t escalated proportionately.
And, Geer.......in his poop paper called the trustees "murderers." In August 1986, when I talked face-to-face with Ricardo about this accusation........Ricardo explained the incident in detail, and passed it off as Geer's interpretation in exagerated terminology.
Thank you Greasespotters for keeping your accountability and integrity HIGHER than what I evidenced from wierwille, martindale or geer.
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potato
WD, you don't just ask people to speak factually. you have no basis to assume they aren't, yet you accuse them of making stuff up all the time.
I don't have the time or money to take twi and their minions to court to prove any case I have against their actions. doesn't make my experience non-factual. the facts could be proven, but it would take free access to twi's records and unhindered memory of other parties present. I already know that the innies involved have conveniently forgotten what occurred. I will continue to relate the facts of my case as I see fit. it is my right.
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rascal
Not only that, there is this pesky little thing called the statute of limitations that has eliminated a lot of us from taking twi to task legally.
This isn`t a legal court, we are free to talk about our experiences. Dove isn`t required to prove in a court of law that his experiences are any more true or factual than ours...yet he feels he is to be allowed freely to post of his experiences unhindered....while calling into question the validity and reputation of any whom post of the more unpleasant aspects of twi.
Let`s keep it fair and balanced indeed.
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WhiteDove
Last I looked no one hindered you from posting what you had to say. it looks like there are pages of your posts. I am free to offer my opinion as well to point out that your opinion may or may not be factual and that the lack of proof puts it in the catagory of aledged until such time as there is documentation otherwise.
An alleged incident is an event that is said to have taken place but has not yet been verified.
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WhiteDove
Your correct that is exactly what it would take and if you don't do that then you don't get to change the word meaning anyway not having fulfilled the requirements that you yourself admit need to happen to prove you case. Lack of time or money don't change the alleged information to truth it does not work that way ,you must meet the conditions before it can properly referred to as true. Until that is accomplished it is alleged.
An alleged incident is an event that is said to have taken place but has not yet been verified.
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potato
so what? I'm not pleading a case in court, I'm not a newspaper reporter, and I'm not a law enforcement officer. I'm under no obligation to use the word alleged. everything on this site is the opinion of the poster. I'm giving testimony from my experience, which is established for me and the people who know me as fact. you're under no obligation to believe it, neither is anyone else. I don't post the things I do to convince anyone else I experience what I did. either people relate, or they don't. people who posted the same things I experienced helped me realize how screwed up my life in twi really was. I didn't need them to pull documentation out of their @$$ before their experiences helped me.
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WhiteDove
Well it would seem logical that a group that seems bent on taking VPW to task on the integrity of his words would want to speak with integrity themselves lest they be in the same category......... It's a little hypercritical to point out someone else's faults when you do the same yourself, when your words have no integrity, because you don't like the truth of what a word means. It's quite clear that what I said holds true and clear as well as you have admitted that one would need to fulfill the things you listed to properly move the charge from alleged to True. the problem is you don't like it that that’s just the way it is so you think your personal dislike qualifies you to just ignore reality and post whatever you like.
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potato
I wasn't arguing the meaning of words, I'm just saying your arguments are irrelevant.
my words do have integrity. I thought it was clear that what I meant was proof of they type you require, submitted in a court of law, since that's where allegations typically require proof of the kind you drone on about and you've been hell-bent on holding us to legal standards. then yes, I could hand you "proof". it would not, however, make my words or my experiences any more factual or true. as was pointed out to you earlier, statute of limitations have run out for most of us. doesn't mean we can't talk about the crimes committed, nor are we required to use the word alleged when making our allegations.
clearly I'll have to make sure I supply you with abundant context from now on so you can't pull my words out of the supplied context and accuse me of speaking without integrity.
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rascal
Not any more your not.
Our experiences in twi are facts. They happened, and as long as they happened to us personally, when relating the incident....we are under NO obligation to say *alleged* discussing them.
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WhiteDove
You seem to want to imply that alleged is somehow tied only to a legal court system it is not, that is not what it says. Read the definition
An alleged incident.........IS ..........an event.............that is said..........to have taken place..........BUT ........has not been verified. Until such a event is verified (does not mean you say so) the proper English is to refer to the event as alleged. and yes if you are going to hold every word that came out of someone else's mouth to cross microscopic examination then yours should meet the same standard if your honest.
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