Vonnegut on Public Discourse, Here and Elsewhere

[doojable]

“Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.”

~Plato~

[J0nny Ling0]

"Turds float..."

Rev. Gerald Wrenn

And:

Confucious say; "Man who stand on toilet high on pot..."

Edited January 14, 2008 by Jonny Lingo

[waysider]

"Music has charms to soothe a savage breast, to soften rocks, or to bend a knotted oak."

William Congreve

[satori001]

All of the quotes are interesting or entertaining on their own merit, but not all of them seem to pertain to "public discourse" in any direct way.

I would like this thread to allow you to step outside of yourself, and look back at an all too familiar topic from someone else's POV, that might speak to or for your own, and also to look at others' points of view through their own quotations.

For my part, I have posted quotations that I agree with, and some that I didn't (at first glance at least), but which added new elements to my own perspectives.

You aren't stuck with Vonnegut, but try to stick to the general idea: discourse, in a public/community setting. Public and community aren't necessarily the same thing, but both would apply. You can quote someone from GS, and there is plenty of fertile ground from which to harvest those quotes, but it would be more effective to keep the sources external, for the reasons above.

If you'd like discourse to improve, you should select quotes to serve or promote that end, rather than the clever-but-cynical variety. Just a suggestion.

I hope there are many more quotations to come.

--

Part II - I was going to begin a parallel thread on the quotations, but not on the people who posted them - to discuss or debate the ideas expressed. That is too much work. But if you find one, or several, that are worth expanding upon, that might be a good follow up on a different thread.

Edited January 14, 2008 by satori001

[J0nny Ling0]

It's just too deep for me. Sorry.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

"Fine manners show themselves formidable to the uncultivated man. They are a subtler science of defense to parry and intimidate; but once matched by the skill of the other party, they drop the point of the sword, points and fences disappear, and the youth finds himself in a more transparent atmosphere, wherein life is a less troublesome game, and not a misunderstanding rises between the players. Manners aim to facilitate life, to get rid of impediments and bring the man pure to energize."

- Ralph Waldo Emerson

[doojable]

“My grief lies all within, And these external manners of lament Are merely shadows to the unseen grief That swells with silence in the tortured soul”

“Give sorrow words. The grief that does not speak whispers the o'er-fraught heart, and bids it break.”

“Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech”

“Listen to many, speak to a few.”

“He that is thy friend indeed,

He will help thee in thy need:

If thou sorrow, he will weep;

If thou wake, he cannot sleep:

Thus of every grief in heart

He with thee does bear a part.

These are certain signs to know

Faithful friend from flattering foe.”

~William Shakespeare~

[Linda Z]

"If the only tool you have is a hammer, it is tempting to treat everything as if it were a nail."

--Abraham Maslow. psychologist/researcher

"We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one another -- until we speak

quietly enough so that our words can be heard as well as our voices."

--Richard M. Nixon

Edited January 15, 2008 by Linda Z

[excathedra]

"See Me Feel Me Touch Me Heal Me"

-- The Who

[waterbuffalo]

If you refuse to accept anything but the best, you very often get it.

- W. Somerset Maugham

It all goes back to the statement "If the queen had balls she would be king?"

Nobody minds having what is too good for them. Jane Austen

I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction. Ayn Rand

“Enough is as good as a feast,” --Aunt Greenow to Kate (in Anthony Trollope’s Can You Forgive Her (p. 242, Ch. LXIV-discussing sharing what you’ve got with a man who will (partially) rob you)

[excathedra]

"Feelings of worth can flourish only in an atmosphere where individual differences are appreciated, mistakes are tolerated, communication is open, and rules are flexible -- the kind of atmosphere that is found in a nurturing family."

--Virginia Satir

***

"The colossal misunderstanding of our time is the assumption that insight will work with people who are unmotivated to change. Communication does not depend on syntax, or eloquence, or rhetoric, or articulation but on the emotional context in which the message is being heard. People can only hear you when they are moving toward you, and they are not likely to when your words are pursuing them. Even the choicest words lose their power when they are used to overpower. Attitudes are the real figures of speech."

--Edwin H. Friedman

[waysider]

"The colossal misunderstanding of our time is the assumption that insight will work with people who are unmotivated to change. Communication does not depend on syntax, or eloquence, or rhetoric, or articulation but on the emotional context in which the message is being heard. People can only hear you when they are moving toward you, and they are not likely to when your words are pursuing them. Even the choicest words lose their power when they are used to overpower. Attitudes are the real figures of speech."

--Edwin H. Friedman

:eusa_clap:

[GeorgeStGeorge]

"Only Nixon could go to China."

Vulcan proverb

George

[excathedra]

"Did you ever notice how difficult it is to argue with someone who is not obsessed with being right?"

--Wayne W. Dyer

[J0nny Ling0]

"God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time."

---Robin Williams (on Clinton/Lewinsky affair)

"A word to the wise isn't necessary, it is the stupid ones who need all the advice."

---Bill Cosby

AND, from my child hood friend Bryn Carlson who grew up with me on Clearbrook Lane in Kensington, Maryland, who at the age of seven said:

"If at first you don't fricasee, fry fry a hen..."

I have always thought he was so witty for coming up with that one! :)

Edited January 18, 2008 by Jonny Lingo

[GrouchoMarxJr]

"One becomes a critic when one cannot be an artist, just as a man becomes a stoole pigeon when he cannot be a soldier"

-Gustave Flaubert -1846

[doojable]

One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

~Robert A. Heinlein~

When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives.

~Robert A. Heinlein~

[GrouchoMarxJr]

"Anyone who wants religion is welcome to it, as far as I'm concerned-I support your right to enjoy it. However, I would appreciate it if you exhibited more respect for the rights of those people who do not wish to share your dogma, rapture or necrodestination."...Frank Zappa.

[doojable]

“Our Similarities bring us to a common ground; Our Differences allow us to be fascinated by each other”

~Tom Robbins~

“Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."

~Carl Jung~

If God had a bumper sticker, it would probably read: SHINE, DON'T WHINE.

~Tom Robbins~

[J0nny Ling0]

My own quote, but first some background:

There is a certain type of "nut and bolt dressing" (goo) that we in the mechanical and marine engineering field use when we are being smart. It is particularly helpful when used on the nuts and bolts used in a boiler piping system. Boiler pipes are always hot, but then at times cool quickly when not in use, and the threads on both nuts and bolts expand and contract on a regular basis, as well as dry out and rust easily and are many times a "biotch" to loosen up when the time comes for repairs. This "goo", this "dressing", is called by brand name: "Never Seez", because when used, the nuts and bolts stand far less of a chance of seizing up. Auto mechanics use it as well. And so, here is my quote which is still written on the bulkhead of the engine control room of the Motor Vessel Kennicott:

"When the opportunity presents itself, never seize it!".

Never Seez is usually a silver or copper colored kind of goo that is brushed on. There is another brand called "Anti-Seize" as well. Great stuff for you mechanic guys out there! And for you girls too, should you be so inclined! :)

JL

P.S.

Well, at least my shipmates understood where I was coming from...

http://www.neverseezproducts.com/marine.htm

Edited January 18, 2008 by Jonny Lingo

[Ron G.]

"Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true." -- Diane Arbus

"Myths and creeds are heroic struggles to comprehend the truth in the world." -- Ansel Adams

"Be still with yourself until the object of your attention affirms your presence." -- Minor White

"Every portrait that is painted with feeling is a portrait of the artist, not of the sitter." -- Oscar Wilde

"I believe in equality for everyone, except reporters and photographers." -- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

"Always carry a large flagon of whiskey in case of a snakebite, furthermore, always carry a small snake." --W.C. Fields

Edited January 18, 2008 by Ron G.

[J0nny Ling0]

Nicholson: "What do you want from me?!

Cruise: "I want the Truth"!

Nicholson: "You can't handle the Truth!!"

Edited January 18, 2008 by Jonny Lingo

[doojable]

“More persons, on the whole, are humbugged by believing in nothing, than by believing too much”

“Those who really desire to attain an independence, have only set their minds upon it, and adopt the proper means, as they do in regard to any other object which they wish to accomplish, and the thing is easily done.”

And of course:

"There's a sucker born every minute"

~P.T. Barnum~

[GeorgeStGeorge]

"Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach. Those that can't teach, teach gym."

I heard it from a college instructor. Original citation unknown.

George

[2fortheroad]

Some Favorite Robert A. Heinlein Quotes:

One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

No statement should be believed because it is made by an authority.

Theology is never any help; it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there. Theologians can persuade themselves of anything.

The most preposterous notion that H. sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history.

Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.

Yield to temptation. It may not pass your way again.

Edited January 18, 2008 by 2fortheroad