I enjoy your posts very much, and even if there are times I may disagree with your positions or views at times...................you bring a wealth of heart and information to the table.
I thank you for that, and glad to know "Abigail" from cyber space...........you have assisted me in being a better person
I would never have guessed you to be a "mousy" person. In fact, I've always thought of you as a person who knows her own mind, and is free enough to speak it. (Of course, the only way I "know" you is through your words here.)
So I guess this means you're doing pretty well! :)-->
I think it's kinda funny that I am probably the exact opposite of you (in real life, I mean.) I've always had alot of mouth trouble, and am continually asking myself why I can't just keep my big mouth shut. --> Posting here gives me the chance to actually think a little before I just spout off something. At least some of the time, anyway. :)-->
Plus I still have Way-related issues to sort out, even after all these years of thinking I had it all neatly filed away. -->
Although having a minority opinion at GreaseSpot can be somewhat hazardous at times, we still can retain out anonymity if we choose, and don't have to tolerate spit flecks in our faces or uninvited visits to our homes.
The number of things that we were encouraged to not have an opinion on is amazing.
I'm not one of these people who normally have a problem speaking up in public, but in twi I gave up that aspect of myself to keep the peace.
The opportunity to freely discuss aspects of our "Wayness", including the various doctrines that were taught is invalubale.
I too have been a bit of a mouse at times. I didn't always speak my mind in TWI either at least not the controversial side of it.
My problem is that somehow I let people talk over me. I don't think I speak softly in public situations but people have in the past and do still start talking just after I do and I usually stop talking whenthey do this.
Untill recently. I have been trying to just keep talking when people do it now. Most of the time these punks just keep talking louder and louder over me. Very impolite and very annoying.
I never understood why someone would feel the need to do this. I think they just want to here themselves talk.
Anyways, the other night my wife and I were talking to some catholic friends of ours about the existence of God and what not, and this started to happen a lot. Finally, I just yelled "What the FUCl
That got their attention and they didn't do it again all night. I don't think they will any time soon either.
It is nice to come here and finish a sentence and complete a thought here at GS. It also helps me figure things out that I am wondering about.
You just have to take that first leap. I used to be terrible at public speaking. Now I think I am pretty good. Especially when no one else is talking. ;)-->
I do know my own mind and I am not usually afraid to speak it out here on the internet, nor among those I am closest to.
Now I just need to get to a place where in face to face situations, I can also speak out among those I am not closest to. To get to a point where I am less concerned about their acceptance or reaction.
Perhaps you have a point there Lindy, about taking that first leap. Last semester I had to give a speech for my Legal Ethics class. I picked a subject and point of view which I thought may be a little unpopular and went with it. It was terrifying, but I did it. Turned out there were others in the class who held the same basic opinion.
However, part of the problem may be inherent to being female also. We are/were taught by society to be quiet. I am finding, even in school, the teachers this semester seem to want to shut me up. I study hard and make sure I know the materials for class. When the teachers ask questions, I often know the answers. I will wait and let others answer but if no one speaks up, I will. This semester both of my teachers have told me they don't want me answering questions. I could understand this, if I was always answering them and never giving others an opportunity to speak, but this is not at all the case.
The irony to this is both of my teachers are also female. I have never had a male teacher try to shut me up like this.
Hey, Shell, here's one for your question regarding gender roles in schools.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
When i worked in day treatment for the disabled I learned about the fact of "No vioce".
It isnt just those who are challenged with low IQ.
I work with a female bully and a liar.
I am quite old and she has topped my list of liars , she will convolute words just to be able to get people upset.
she has shut me down .
I am praying to God to be quiet , she will see me done.
she is the insecure one. she is a rare female in management, and I believe she has to be quiet.
so we will pay for it.
Woman sometimes keep this look pretty and be silent a man knows best idea when they are out numbered in middle management it is common.
It allows the men to keep the positions, call the shots, and the company to look like they are not sexist.
These woman are used most of all, know it, and have the most anger.
I think it is great you can use this forum to gain confidence.
It allows me to think about what I am thinking.
I often feel the other poster skip over or do not read mine.
The way experience destroyed my ability to trust myself, or even hear myself think. GS helps.
I found out I am lonely you know on this forum I never admitted how many relationships those years erased and how friends are hard to find outside of the way.
MJ, yes, TWI did destroy our ability to trust ourselves. I do not skip over your posts either. In fact, I often think I can feel the emotion and heart you pour into them, pouring back out to me.
You have a very powerful voice MJ, perhaps some are not ready to handle that much power coming from another human being and that is why the "skip over" your posts.
Excathedra, I too used to say I found my voice here at Greasespot. Perhaps I coined the phrase from Satori without being aware of it. Lately, I have been looking within myself to better understand what that statement means and how I am accomplishing it, so I can take that knowledge out into the real world.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
What horrible teachers! I teach part-time at a University here in Chicago, and I only tell people not to answer questions because they answer too many questions - but I make it clear that that's why! I would NEVER tell people to shut up that way! I even had an autistic student last term that kept saying, "If the majority of the students in the class get an 'A', then the professor will shave his head and his mustache." He would say this every week, but STILL I never told him to shut up. Of course, I would say, "No, Derek, that's not going to happen." But I didn't shut him up!
I hear ya Abi, I get discouraged sometimes speaking up also. In here tho, it isn't when someone disagree's with me. (I am so thankful we can learn from each others opinions) Its when they ONLY will even consider their own ideas, like they are sooooooooo much smarter, better, well liked, important, etc., an attitude of superiority that I detest. I have been thinking about it lately, its honestly personality styles. I hope to write a post about it even, and for those of you who skip over what I write---well I'm warning you now!
I have enjoyed seeing you "grow in your freedom" Abi. Life sure is interesting isn't it?? A continuative journey. Never think that you have "arrived", for when you do...it will all change.
And the beat goes on.
suz :D-->
PS I would love to know about the Oddlist[/b]st[/i forum
Abi, :)--> I was thinking of my report while reading this! I was also thinking of how women can be so bitchy and catty and how, regardless of TWI I trust women even less than men. A women, IMO will hug with one arm and shove a knife in with other. A man, on the other hand will usually tell exactly what he thinks.
LOL, am I negating my own final report here? Truly, this opinion is simply from personal experience, not necessarily gender bias. :P-->
I know what you mean also. I have had some wonderful female friends, but in general I have found a lot of women to be "catty".
At least if a guy is a jerk, he usually doesn't try to hide it. Either that or men just aren't as good at hiding it as women are - lol. Women will pretend to be nice and then stab you in the back.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
Abi don't take it personally it's not that I skip over your post, I skip over everyones posts! hummmm that doesn't seem to work to well or I would not have been in this thread reading what you and the others have posted. lol
In another thread on Forgiveness I brought up the issue of trust. Seems the people I trusted the most hurt me the most. Perhaps you have been there done that. The final reality really is that we need to put our trust in God if we don't want to be dissappointed. From what I have seen it doesn't matter whether it is men or women. Few people do what they say they will. Whether deliberate or due to extenuating circumstances may not matter if the results are the same. I think human beings are basically unreliable. It has been hard to go from trusting anyone with a green bumper sticker to not trusting anyone period. but it hurts less and what a pleasent surprise when someone turns out to be wonderful!
So again I don't think the details of life are as easy as we once thought. Not everything is black and white. I really do have lots of questions. That doesn't mean life isn't fun it is just very different than it was a few years back.
And it's not that I skip over your posts it's just that I only check in for a couple days at a time every couple months.
On a personality level if we were all the same how boring would that be? why not enjoy who you are! you really are the only you there is ever gonna be. why is everyone trying to be somebody else?
I wasn't offended or worred about people skipping over my posts, that was another poster, who I suspect, spoke out of a heart of hurt and loneliness. I think for the most part, people read the posts that interest them or the ones by the people they like. Additionally, sometimes we skip topics which we are not emotionally ready to handle. It is not necessary for everyone to find my topics interesting or for everyone to like me.
You are correct, trusting people can be difficult. Though my issues aren't entirely trust related. I don't worry too much about that stuff because I expect people to be human and imperfect. I try to look beyond the actions and see the heart. I think MOST people have pretty good intentions and motives, even when the results do not show it.
For me the issue is more with respect to maintaining boundaries. I find it difficult to deal with aggressive people, even when those people mean well. Also, there is the need to be accepted and the desire to take care of the hearts of others. These things combined can make dealing with people face to face and maitaining my own boundaries difficult.
I had boundary issues before TWI, those were multiplied greatly in TWI.
Another thing. When I got involved with TWI, I was in my very early 20's. I was still in the process of figuring out who I was. TWI stunted that process, so now I have to complete that process.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
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firebee
I think you are balanced and level
I enjoy your posts very much, and even if there are times I may disagree with your positions or views at times...................you bring a wealth of heart and information to the table.
I thank you for that, and glad to know "Abigail" from cyber space...........you have assisted me in being a better person
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ex10
Abi
I would never have guessed you to be a "mousy" person. In fact, I've always thought of you as a person who knows her own mind, and is free enough to speak it. (Of course, the only way I "know" you is through your words here.)
So I guess this means you're doing pretty well!
:)-->
I think it's kinda funny that I am probably the exact opposite of you (in real life, I mean.) I've always had alot of mouth trouble, and am continually asking myself why I can't just keep my big mouth shut.
--> Posting here gives me the chance to actually think a little before I just spout off something. At least some of the time, anyway. 
:)-->
Plus I still have Way-related issues to sort out, even after all these years of thinking I had it all neatly filed away.
-->
Anyway, it's nice to have you in the choir!
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Oakspear
Although having a minority opinion at GreaseSpot can be somewhat hazardous at times, we still can retain out anonymity if we choose, and don't have to tolerate spit flecks in our faces or uninvited visits to our homes.
The number of things that we were encouraged to not have an opinion on is amazing.
I'm not one of these people who normally have a problem speaking up in public, but in twi I gave up that aspect of myself to keep the peace.
The opportunity to freely discuss aspects of our "Wayness", including the various doctrines that were taught is invalubale.
Oakspear (actual friend of the real-life Abigail)
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lindyhopper
I wouldn[t have expected it, Abigail.
I too have been a bit of a mouse at times. I didn't always speak my mind in TWI either at least not the controversial side of it.
My problem is that somehow I let people talk over me. I don't think I speak softly in public situations but people have in the past and do still start talking just after I do and I usually stop talking whenthey do this.
Untill recently. I have been trying to just keep talking when people do it now. Most of the time these punks just keep talking louder and louder over me. Very impolite and very annoying.
I never understood why someone would feel the need to do this. I think they just want to here themselves talk.
Anyways, the other night my wife and I were talking to some catholic friends of ours about the existence of God and what not, and this started to happen a lot. Finally, I just yelled "What the FUCl
That got their attention and they didn't do it again all night. I don't think they will any time soon either.
It is nice to come here and finish a sentence and complete a thought here at GS. It also helps me figure things out that I am wondering about.
You just have to take that first leap. I used to be terrible at public speaking. Now I think I am pretty good. Especially when no one else is talking.
;)-->
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Abigail
I do know my own mind and I am not usually afraid to speak it out here on the internet, nor among those I am closest to.
Now I just need to get to a place where in face to face situations, I can also speak out among those I am not closest to. To get to a point where I am less concerned about their acceptance or reaction.
Perhaps you have a point there Lindy, about taking that first leap. Last semester I had to give a speech for my Legal Ethics class. I picked a subject and point of view which I thought may be a little unpopular and went with it. It was terrifying, but I did it. Turned out there were others in the class who held the same basic opinion.
However, part of the problem may be inherent to being female also. We are/were taught by society to be quiet. I am finding, even in school, the teachers this semester seem to want to shut me up. I study hard and make sure I know the materials for class. When the teachers ask questions, I often know the answers. I will wait and let others answer but if no one speaks up, I will. This semester both of my teachers have told me they don't want me answering questions. I could understand this, if I was always answering them and never giving others an opportunity to speak, but this is not at all the case.
The irony to this is both of my teachers are also female. I have never had a male teacher try to shut me up like this.
Hey, Shell, here's one for your question regarding gender roles in schools.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
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mj412
When i worked in day treatment for the disabled I learned about the fact of "No vioce".
It isnt just those who are challenged with low IQ.
I work with a female bully and a liar.
I am quite old and she has topped my list of liars , she will convolute words just to be able to get people upset.
she has shut me down .
I am praying to God to be quiet , she will see me done.
she is the insecure one. she is a rare female in management, and I believe she has to be quiet.
so we will pay for it.
Woman sometimes keep this look pretty and be silent a man knows best idea when they are out numbered in middle management it is common.
It allows the men to keep the positions, call the shots, and the company to look like they are not sexist.
These woman are used most of all, know it, and have the most anger.
I think it is great you can use this forum to gain confidence.
It allows me to think about what I am thinking.
I often feel the other poster skip over or do not read mine.
The way experience destroyed my ability to trust myself, or even hear myself think. GS helps.
I found out I am lonely you know on this forum I never admitted how many relationships those years erased and how friends are hard to find outside of the way.
I do now.
I find out but I do not know what to do about it.
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excathedra
mj, i never skip over your posts
great thread, abby
satori told me once i was finding my voice. i had no idea what he was talking about.
but i get it much more now.
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Abigail
MJ, yes, TWI did destroy our ability to trust ourselves. I do not skip over your posts either. In fact, I often think I can feel the emotion and heart you pour into them, pouring back out to me.
You have a very powerful voice MJ, perhaps some are not ready to handle that much power coming from another human being and that is why the "skip over" your posts.
Excathedra, I too used to say I found my voice here at Greasespot. Perhaps I coined the phrase from Satori without being aware of it. Lately, I have been looking within myself to better understand what that statement means and how I am accomplishing it, so I can take that knowledge out into the real world.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
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Steve!
MJ - I think you add a lot of value to GS.
Abi -
What horrible teachers! I teach part-time at a University here in Chicago, and I only tell people not to answer questions because they answer too many questions - but I make it clear that that's why! I would NEVER tell people to shut up that way! I even had an autistic student last term that kept saying, "If the majority of the students in the class get an 'A', then the professor will shave his head and his mustache." He would say this every week, but STILL I never told him to shut up. Of course, I would say, "No, Derek, that's not going to happen." But I didn't shut him up!
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suz
I hear ya Abi, I get discouraged sometimes speaking up also. In here tho, it isn't when someone disagree's with me. (I am so thankful we can learn from each others opinions) Its when they ONLY will even consider their own ideas, like they are sooooooooo much smarter, better, well liked, important, etc., an attitude of superiority that I detest. I have been thinking about it lately, its honestly personality styles. I hope to write a post about it even, and for those of you who skip over what I write---well I'm warning you now!
I have enjoyed seeing you "grow in your freedom" Abi. Life sure is interesting isn't it?? A continuative journey. Never think that you have "arrived", for when you do...it will all change.
And the beat goes on.
suz
:D-->
PS I would love to know about the Oddlist[/b]st[/i forum
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Shellon
Abi,
:)--> I was thinking of my report while reading this! I was also thinking of how women can be so bitchy and catty and how, regardless of TWI I trust women even less than men. A women, IMO will hug with one arm and shove a knife in with other. A man, on the other hand will usually tell exactly what he thinks.
LOL, am I negating my own final report here? Truly, this opinion is simply from personal experience, not necessarily gender bias.
:P-->
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firebee
Ouch..............that hurt
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Abigail
Shell,
I know what you mean also. I have had some wonderful female friends, but in general I have found a lot of women to be "catty".
At least if a guy is a jerk, he usually doesn't try to hide it. Either that or men just aren't as good at hiding it as women are - lol. Women will pretend to be nice and then stab you in the back.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
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7390
Greetings!
Abi don't take it personally it's not that I skip over your post, I skip over everyones posts! hummmm that doesn't seem to work to well or I would not have been in this thread reading what you and the others have posted. lol
In another thread on Forgiveness I brought up the issue of trust. Seems the people I trusted the most hurt me the most. Perhaps you have been there done that. The final reality really is that we need to put our trust in God if we don't want to be dissappointed. From what I have seen it doesn't matter whether it is men or women. Few people do what they say they will. Whether deliberate or due to extenuating circumstances may not matter if the results are the same. I think human beings are basically unreliable. It has been hard to go from trusting anyone with a green bumper sticker to not trusting anyone period. but it hurts less and what a pleasent surprise when someone turns out to be wonderful!
So again I don't think the details of life are as easy as we once thought. Not everything is black and white. I really do have lots of questions. That doesn't mean life isn't fun it is just very different than it was a few years back.
And it's not that I skip over your posts it's just that I only check in for a couple days at a time every couple months.
On a personality level if we were all the same how boring would that be? why not enjoy who you are! you really are the only you there is ever gonna be. why is everyone trying to be somebody else?
personaly i am thinking life is tooooooo short.
later
7390
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Abigail
7390,
I wasn't offended or worred about people skipping over my posts, that was another poster, who I suspect, spoke out of a heart of hurt and loneliness. I think for the most part, people read the posts that interest them or the ones by the people they like. Additionally, sometimes we skip topics which we are not emotionally ready to handle. It is not necessary for everyone to find my topics interesting or for everyone to like me.
You are correct, trusting people can be difficult. Though my issues aren't entirely trust related. I don't worry too much about that stuff because I expect people to be human and imperfect. I try to look beyond the actions and see the heart. I think MOST people have pretty good intentions and motives, even when the results do not show it.
For me the issue is more with respect to maintaining boundaries. I find it difficult to deal with aggressive people, even when those people mean well. Also, there is the need to be accepted and the desire to take care of the hearts of others. These things combined can make dealing with people face to face and maitaining my own boundaries difficult.
I had boundary issues before TWI, those were multiplied greatly in TWI.
Another thing. When I got involved with TWI, I was in my very early 20's. I was still in the process of figuring out who I was. TWI stunted that process, so now I have to complete that process.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
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7390
abi
greetings!
thanks for the correction.
i miss the chat room
glad to hear things are going well for you
congrats on your year together
say hi to verb
later
7390
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