I'm not sure what I can tell you that you haven't already deduced on your own.
Wayfers are programmed to make a deliberate effort to avoid consideration of anything that contradicts their framework of beliefs. It's right there in session #7 of the PFAL class. I guess I don't need to tell you that. You are having a personal experience with it. All I can really add is that if someone doesn't want your help, you can't help them.
ask your friend why craig martindale was forced to resign his presidency of twi..........then ask her what rosie-the-liar's qualifications for assuming the presidency were and are..............then ask why donna martindale divorced her husband, yet was allowed to remain in her million dollar custom log home at twi headquarters in new knoxville...........then ask why rosie-the-liar admitted to knowing about and being an accomplice with martindale and ramona biden in conspiracies to coerce twi married and single women into illicit sexual affairs with donna's hubby from at least 1995 forward...........then ask why asking such questions, many of the answers to which are a matter of public record cause such apoplexic reactions from wayfers when anyone has the "gall" to ask them...........how does she "know" the so-called "accusations" against vic are not true?....."revelation"??.......has she read the court records from the sidney court and judge schmitt?........has she interviewed rosie-the-liar?.......the doofus from okie?..........donna the "non-marked and avoided"?.......coward allen?........boob and doody moneyhands?...........etc., etc., etc.,????
i realize that just the effort to ask these questions to wayfers so hopelessly lost in their own propaganda and disinformation is an emotionally exhausting and apparently fruitless task.......i wish you good luck and stamina..........but, eventually, you're just going to have to allow your "friend" to slide down the road of religious indoctrination, hypocrisy, merciless lying, vicious defamation of the innocent, and selling out to their idols and defenseless "spiritual" delusions...............peace to you.
ask your friend why craig martindale was forced to resign his presidency of twi..........then ask her what rosie-the-liar's qualifications for assuming the presidency were and are..............then ask why donna martindale divorced her husband, yet was allowed to remain in her million dollar custom log home at twi headquarters in new knoxville...........then ask why rosie-the-liar admitted to knowing about and being an accomplice with martindale and ramona biden in conspiracies to coerce twi married and single women into illicit sexual affairs with donna's hubby from at least 1995 forward...........then ask why asking such questions, many of the answers to which are a matter of public record cause such apoplexic reactions from wayfers when anyone has the "gall" to ask them...........how does she "know" the so-called "accusations" against vic are not true?....."revelation"??.......has she read the court records from the sidney court and judge schmitt?........has she interviewed rosie-the-liar?.......the doofus from okie?..........donna the "non-marked and avoided"?.......coward allen?........boob and doody moneyhands?...........etc., etc., etc.,????
i realize that just the effort to ask these questions to wayfers so hopelessly lost in their own propaganda and disinformation is an emotionally exhausting and apparently fruitless task.......i wish you good luck and stamina..........but, eventually, you're just going to have to allow your "friend" to slide down the road of religious indoctrination, hypocrisy, merciless lying, vicious defamation of the innocent, and selling out to their idols and defenseless "spiritual" delusions...............peace to you.
she said she knows weirwille is innocent because she has listened to his sermons and she just knows "he would never do that"
Most of VPW's "works" are nothing more than flat out plagiarisms of people such as BG Leonard, JE Stiles, EW Bullinger, etc.
Some of his books, when compared word for word, are virtually duplicated from the works of others. There is lots of documentation here on GSC. Show her the article that depicts the actual errors in PFAL.
and the discussion of Wierwilles "Blue Book". My guess, though, is that she will have some lame excuse for why it was okay for Wierwille to use the works of others as though they were his own.
then you can tell her that at least one person, (me) held a sobbing dorothea kipp wierwille in his arms in a fruitless attempt to cosole her regarding the wicked and viscious sexual perversions of her filthy fraud of a husband, as she moaned about being so "unable" to do anything to "help him".........that was on his own 1975 motorcoach..........tell her about the foolishly idealistic young twi "clergyman", who personally, face-to-face, confronted vic on his multi-generational, sexual abuse of just one family corps family, and instead of any kind of even weak denial, had the joy of having victor's guard dog sicced on him..........ask her why, in dotsie's "biography" of her "man-o-gawd" hubby, she unabashedly stated that "he was a mean man"......ask her why there are so many so-called "ministers" out there now who participated in vic's perverted debauchery of his church, who persist in "carrying on" in his stead, thinking there is some redeeming social, spiritual, or any other kind of value in perpetuating his abject human manure pile.............lemme know what she says!............peace.
she said she knows weirwille is innocent because she has listened to his sermons and she just knows "he would never do that"
dear dorian, i'm sorry you have to go through this stress
please tell your friend that i firsthand experienced that he would do that
it's very sad since i looked up to him and loved him like a father i never had, but he did counsel me for a number of years how he could heal me from my childhood sexual abuse by having sex with me -- to show me the way god really intended it
please feel free to tell you friend to write me at excathedra2000@yahoo.com
i got involved as a freshman in college and he counseled me for four/five years
the time i ended up in the back of the motorcoach was after i had been drinking with him and it was a very strange out-of-body experience (not pleasant at all, not even real)
the next morning when we were almost at the destination, he tried to come over and shove his weenie in my face, but i played dead
i guess if you have any advice or encouragment that would be great. i know i need to give this to God and that I have to stop thinking that I can fix this. but i feel i am not doing enough to help her and there is only so much time before she moves in with them.
Dorian --- As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Sounds like you've done your best.
The rest is up to her. It's up to her to decide if she wants to "drink" from a stagnant pool of water, or a fresh one.
Geemany Dorian, What I don`t understand about those who venerate wierwille solely because they liked teachings that they have heard....is what in the world that they THINK a false prophet would SOUND like... a wolf in sheeps clothing would actually LOOK like.
They have to look and sound very very good in order to fool, to deceive.
I know, I have been where your friend is, there really isn`t anything that you can do, but consider that you never know what seeds you have planted in her mind or when God might water and they germinate in her mind. All you can do is continue to share as longa s she will allow you. There is no telling what will be the catalyst in your friends mind. It was simply one line in one letter from lcm for my husband, it was excathedra`s story told years ago that was mine....It might be something that you have shared years down the road that will be hers.
Don, that is terrible about Mrs. W. I always had the idea that she was a tried to be a good lady while stuck in very difficult circumstances. I am sorry that she suffered so. :(
prove me wrong in everything i've ever posted here about your "father in the word", victor paul wierwille........prove me wrong about everything i've ever posted about craig martindale, rosalie rivenbark, chris geer, et al......prove you were personally present with me at every incident, situation, or confrontation i had with anyone you seek to "exonerate".......prove to me anything you say is worth a response of honesty, sincerity, compassion, and actual fact......prove to me you know what you're talking about because you were there, or because you experienced with me everything i've posted.............peace.
thank you every one! i will keep talking to her and questioning her. and you are right, hopefully what i say will plant seeds in her brain that will grow. thank you everyone, it means a lot
How's about YOU read it and then YOU provide documentation of quote, page number and chapter?
prove me wrong in everything i've ever posted here about your "father in the word", victor paul wierwille........prove me wrong about everything i've ever posted about craig martindale, rosalie rivenbark, chris geer, et al......prove you were personally present with me at every incident, situation, or confrontation i had with anyone you seek to "exonerate".......prove to me anything you say is worth a response of honesty, sincerity, compassion, and actual fact......prove to me you know what you're talking about because you were there, or because you experienced with me everything i've posted.............peace.
Not my claim, as I remember it is the burden of the claimer here to prove their claims othewise we will assume it for what it is fabricated BS. The question stands DWBH I seemed to have missed that part in her book, I'd like to read it could you provide documentation of quote? page number? chapter? .
prove me wrong in everything i've ever posted here about your "father in the word", victor paul wierwille........prove me wrong about everything i've ever posted about craig martindale, rosalie rivenbark, chris geer, et al......prove you were personally present with me at every incident, situation, or confrontation i had with anyone you seek to "exonerate".......prove to me anything you say is worth a response of honesty, sincerity, compassion, and actual fact......prove to me you know what you're talking about because you were there, or because you experienced with me everything i've posted.............peace.
I made no claim that you were wrong in everything that you posted. I simply asked for documentation regarding the quote you stated as true. I made it as simple as I could for you...Either it is or it is not there. You can respond or not, your choice it's your integrity and honesty that is at stake ,you made the claim not me. The print will tell who was correct. Yes? You may be correct , let's see......
Doreen, if there is one thing that I have learned through the years, it is that God will work through people to help us when we cannot or will not hear him. Some times it takes a variety of people, and time, but I don`t believe he ever gives up on us....Never doubt that what you do will have impact.
Dove, how typical to try to drag this whole thread off topic by taking one comment out of dozens to attack a poster. It could have been taken pt, if you believe that a poster is mistaken. I haven`t read Mrs. W`s book, but I DO know that at least one poster said of her that on the very day of VPW`s funeral...Mrs. said to the people present that very thing...that *he was a mean mean man*
She said it, whether it was in book or witnessed immediately after vp`s funeral...what a freaking legacy.
Doriangreen, hang in there pray for her often at some point something will be said or will happen that will open her eyes... but don't worry if you do not seem to be making progress. As was said she will have to decide to leave on her own.. You really can't make people see sense sometimes.. and Some folks choose to be blind to reality... Some folks even if their best friend told them about an incident that happened wouldn't believe it anyway. Some people can stand right there and watch the perpetrator do something and still say it never happened because it is easier to deny the event then to admit the person they love/venerate is an evil scum sucking pig.
Doreen, if there is one thing that I have learned through the years, it is that God will work through people to help us when we cannot or will not hear him. Some times it takes a variety of people, and time, but I don`t believe he ever gives up on us....Never doubt that what you do will have impact.
Dove, how typical to try to drag this whole thread off topic by taking one comment out of dozens to attack a poster. It could have been taken pt, if you believe that a poster is mistaken. I haven`t read Mrs. W`s book, but I DO know that at least one poster said of her that on the very day of VPW`s funeral...Mrs. said to the people present that very thing...that *he was a mean mean man*
She said it, whether it was in book or witnessed at vp`s funeral...
No that was the topic... Read it DWBH made a claim, I simply asked for him to do that which is required of everyone else substantiate his claim. I guess if it's anti way the rules change ,how is it not attacking a poster when the shoe is on the other foot? We are required to prove claims made, the standard should be the same for all. Do we get the luxury of of replying PT no, we are challenged, and generally by a pack, on the thread. Why do you think the rules should change for some? As to your other claim I believe that a poster was told by someone else that occurred. Another fact that is not substantiated firsthand as you like to claim. By the way you were not there so you have no right to claim what Mrs. Wierwille said ,you don't know, isn't that your story , if you were not there you are not qualified to speak? or does that blow with the wind of BS like everything else? It's a simple question Yes or No is it there in print?
Dove, I am sorry, I don`t think what you do is acceptable, no matter how you attempt to justify the nastiness :(
Of course, not having proved a claim true goes against your agenda to have only negative things discussed, can't have a negative post proved wrong. If you run out of things to say just make stuff up, BS was said I called the marker in ,it could have been easily fixed, provide a reference, but as usual fight to the death , discuss anything else ,call names, anything to get the focus off the fact that the claim was wrong. Your double standard got revealed, of course you find that not acceptable. Tooo bad it's the real world , someone wants to run their mouth about some claim, better know what you are speaking about.
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potato
I don't remember anyone saying that. testimony is testimony, and where multiple witnesses heard the same thing, why would we have to "be there" to accept she said it? do you have the book, WD? if yo
potato
thank you Paw
potato
amen, newlife. twi culture is corrupt. the fact that corps were not trained in counseling skills but were told they were the authorities on running peoples' lives is indicative of how sick twi was, an
waysider
I'm not sure what I can tell you that you haven't already deduced on your own.
Wayfers are programmed to make a deliberate effort to avoid consideration of anything that contradicts their framework of beliefs. It's right there in session #7 of the PFAL class. I guess I don't need to tell you that. You are having a personal experience with it. All I can really add is that if someone doesn't want your help, you can't help them.
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DontWorryBeHappy
ask your friend why craig martindale was forced to resign his presidency of twi..........then ask her what rosie-the-liar's qualifications for assuming the presidency were and are..............then ask why donna martindale divorced her husband, yet was allowed to remain in her million dollar custom log home at twi headquarters in new knoxville...........then ask why rosie-the-liar admitted to knowing about and being an accomplice with martindale and ramona biden in conspiracies to coerce twi married and single women into illicit sexual affairs with donna's hubby from at least 1995 forward...........then ask why asking such questions, many of the answers to which are a matter of public record cause such apoplexic reactions from wayfers when anyone has the "gall" to ask them...........how does she "know" the so-called "accusations" against vic are not true?....."revelation"??.......has she read the court records from the sidney court and judge schmitt?........has she interviewed rosie-the-liar?.......the doofus from okie?..........donna the "non-marked and avoided"?.......coward allen?........boob and doody moneyhands?...........etc., etc., etc.,????
i realize that just the effort to ask these questions to wayfers so hopelessly lost in their own propaganda and disinformation is an emotionally exhausting and apparently fruitless task.......i wish you good luck and stamina..........but, eventually, you're just going to have to allow your "friend" to slide down the road of religious indoctrination, hypocrisy, merciless lying, vicious defamation of the innocent, and selling out to their idols and defenseless "spiritual" delusions...............peace to you.
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doriangreen
she said she knows weirwille is innocent because she has listened to his sermons and she just knows "he would never do that"
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waysider
Ask her how she feels about plagiarism.
Most of VPW's "works" are nothing more than flat out plagiarisms of people such as BG Leonard, JE Stiles, EW Bullinger, etc.
Some of his books, when compared word for word, are virtually duplicated from the works of others. There is lots of documentation here on GSC. Show her the article that depicts the actual errors in PFAL.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/editor...ant-living.html
Also, show her the threads that deal with the doctrinal errors in PFAL.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/editor...nal-errors.html
and the discussion of Wierwilles "Blue Book". My guess, though, is that she will have some lame excuse for why it was okay for Wierwille to use the works of others as though they were his own.
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DontWorryBeHappy
then you can tell her that at least one person, (me) held a sobbing dorothea kipp wierwille in his arms in a fruitless attempt to cosole her regarding the wicked and viscious sexual perversions of her filthy fraud of a husband, as she moaned about being so "unable" to do anything to "help him".........that was on his own 1975 motorcoach..........tell her about the foolishly idealistic young twi "clergyman", who personally, face-to-face, confronted vic on his multi-generational, sexual abuse of just one family corps family, and instead of any kind of even weak denial, had the joy of having victor's guard dog sicced on him..........ask her why, in dotsie's "biography" of her "man-o-gawd" hubby, she unabashedly stated that "he was a mean man"......ask her why there are so many so-called "ministers" out there now who participated in vic's perverted debauchery of his church, who persist in "carrying on" in his stead, thinking there is some redeeming social, spiritual, or any other kind of value in perpetuating his abject human manure pile.............lemme know what she says!............peace.
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excathedra
dear dorian, i'm sorry you have to go through this stress
please tell your friend that i firsthand experienced that he would do that
it's very sad since i looked up to him and loved him like a father i never had, but he did counsel me for a number of years how he could heal me from my childhood sexual abuse by having sex with me -- to show me the way god really intended it
please feel free to tell you friend to write me at excathedra2000@yahoo.com
i got involved as a freshman in college and he counseled me for four/five years
the time i ended up in the back of the motorcoach was after i had been drinking with him and it was a very strange out-of-body experience (not pleasant at all, not even real)
the next morning when we were almost at the destination, he tried to come over and shove his weenie in my face, but i played dead
sorry to be so graphic
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dmiller
Dorian --- As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Sounds like you've done your best.
The rest is up to her. It's up to her to decide if she wants to "drink" from a stagnant pool of water, or a fresh one.
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rascal
Geemany Dorian, What I don`t understand about those who venerate wierwille solely because they liked teachings that they have heard....is what in the world that they THINK a false prophet would SOUND like... a wolf in sheeps clothing would actually LOOK like.
They have to look and sound very very good in order to fool, to deceive.
I know, I have been where your friend is, there really isn`t anything that you can do, but consider that you never know what seeds you have planted in her mind or when God might water and they germinate in her mind. All you can do is continue to share as longa s she will allow you. There is no telling what will be the catalyst in your friends mind. It was simply one line in one letter from lcm for my husband, it was excathedra`s story told years ago that was mine....It might be something that you have shared years down the road that will be hers.
Don, that is terrible about Mrs. W. I always had the idea that she was a tried to be a good lady while stuck in very difficult circumstances. I am sorry that she suffered so. :(
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Dot Matrix
I also held a sobbing Mrs. W's hand as she sobbed and sobbed when I told her I KNEW what her husband was doing and it was WRONG.
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WhiteDove
DWBH I seemed to have missed that part in her book, I'd like to read it could you provide documentation of quote? page number? chapter?
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RumRunner
How's about YOU read it and then YOU provide documentation of quote, page number and chapter?
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DontWorryBeHappy
prove me wrong in everything i've ever posted here about your "father in the word", victor paul wierwille........prove me wrong about everything i've ever posted about craig martindale, rosalie rivenbark, chris geer, et al......prove you were personally present with me at every incident, situation, or confrontation i had with anyone you seek to "exonerate".......prove to me anything you say is worth a response of honesty, sincerity, compassion, and actual fact......prove to me you know what you're talking about because you were there, or because you experienced with me everything i've posted.............peace.
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doriangreen
thank you every one! i will keep talking to her and questioning her. and you are right, hopefully what i say will plant seeds in her brain that will grow. thank you everyone, it means a lot
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WhiteDove
Not my claim, as I remember it is the burden of the claimer here to prove their claims othewise we will assume it for what it is fabricated BS. The question stands DWBH I seemed to have missed that part in her book, I'd like to read it could you provide documentation of quote? page number? chapter? .
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RumRunner
What you mean "we"?
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WhiteDove
We - those with common sense,Oh and can read, to look at a book and see the absence/or proof of such a claim. Pretty simple either it exists or not!
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WhiteDove
I made no claim that you were wrong in everything that you posted. I simply asked for documentation regarding the quote you stated as true. I made it as simple as I could for you...Either it is or it is not there. You can respond or not, your choice it's your integrity and honesty that is at stake ,you made the claim not me. The print will tell who was correct. Yes? You may be correct , let's see......
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rascal
How desperately sad :(
Doreen, if there is one thing that I have learned through the years, it is that God will work through people to help us when we cannot or will not hear him. Some times it takes a variety of people, and time, but I don`t believe he ever gives up on us....Never doubt that what you do will have impact.
Dove, how typical to try to drag this whole thread off topic by taking one comment out of dozens to attack a poster. It could have been taken pt, if you believe that a poster is mistaken. I haven`t read Mrs. W`s book, but I DO know that at least one poster said of her that on the very day of VPW`s funeral...Mrs. said to the people present that very thing...that *he was a mean mean man*
She said it, whether it was in book or witnessed immediately after vp`s funeral...what a freaking legacy.
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leafytwiglet
Doriangreen, hang in there pray for her often at some point something will be said or will happen that will open her eyes... but don't worry if you do not seem to be making progress. As was said she will have to decide to leave on her own.. You really can't make people see sense sometimes.. and Some folks choose to be blind to reality... Some folks even if their best friend told them about an incident that happened wouldn't believe it anyway. Some people can stand right there and watch the perpetrator do something and still say it never happened because it is easier to deny the event then to admit the person they love/venerate is an evil scum sucking pig.
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WhiteDove
No that was the topic... Read it DWBH made a claim, I simply asked for him to do that which is required of everyone else substantiate his claim. I guess if it's anti way the rules change ,how is it not attacking a poster when the shoe is on the other foot? We are required to prove claims made, the standard should be the same for all. Do we get the luxury of of replying PT no, we are challenged, and generally by a pack, on the thread. Why do you think the rules should change for some? As to your other claim I believe that a poster was told by someone else that occurred. Another fact that is not substantiated firsthand as you like to claim. By the way you were not there so you have no right to claim what Mrs. Wierwille said ,you don't know, isn't that your story , if you were not there you are not qualified to speak? or does that blow with the wind of BS like everything else? It's a simple question Yes or No is it there in print?
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rascal
Dove, I am sorry, I don`t think what you do is acceptable, no matter how you attempt to justify the nastiness :(
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WhiteDove
Of course, not having proved a claim true goes against your agenda to have only negative things discussed, can't have a negative post proved wrong. If you run out of things to say just make stuff up, BS was said I called the marker in ,it could have been easily fixed, provide a reference, but as usual fight to the death , discuss anything else ,call names, anything to get the focus off the fact that the claim was wrong. Your double standard got revealed, of course you find that not acceptable. Tooo bad it's the real world , someone wants to run their mouth about some claim, better know what you are speaking about.
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doojable
okay,, this time I'm NOT going to read the whole thread,, help me out please.
What was the claim?
How was it wrong?
Oh and WD... just because someone can't prove that they are right, it doesn't mean that the are wrong.
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WhiteDove
It's pretty simple either the book states it or not ......and here you are required to back up your claims it works the same both ways...Dear
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