The word "dynamic" in the above title has a double meaning. "Dynamic" primarily denotes the ability to change; dynamic is in direct contrast to static, which shows inertia or sameness.
On one hand, Wierdwille was stressing that The Way was poised to change and upgrade, as new information came to light.
On the other hand (session 7), he was warning us we must never even consider any opinions that might differ from the prescribed dogma of The Way. (Eve stopped to "consider" and look at the fate she found.) Nope! Gotta STAND! on that "Word" (as defined by VPP Wierdwille in his series on Power For Abundant Living.)
"Change" is highly over rated as a concept. I heard a presentation today where the information shared was very useful and pertinent but one of the presenters used the word "paradigm" 5 times. He sounded archaic. Just 15 years ago everyone couldn't buzz fast enough around embracing the word, if not the meaning of it and the perceived "shifts" in paradigms that were rockin' the world. As always the book market soared around the contradictory fact that business minds in search of change rushed to know and do what everyone else was doing. Stylish group think. Once one's been through a couple cycles of it it's easy to spot coming a mile away.
Basically I use this rule: by the time I hear about a "new" change that's changing the world and it's been named, weighed and categorzied - it's over. The subsequent tsunamai of marketing popularizes it and the trickle down effect is a small subset of the original idea and potential impact.
The potential of Christian "change" isn't in the repetition of the same change someone else experienced, it's in the new experience that constitutes the change. Same Bible, same species of human beings, same planet. The newness is in the individual. That's impossible to "can" and market. We do attempt to but the "new dynamic church" as promised has to constantly be renewing itself around those being changed to be relevant. Otherwise one ends up an observer, not a participant.
"We have this treasure in earthen vessels, the excellency of the power is of God and not of us"......God's always here, there, always have been and always will be - if we look at it that way the "glory" that's "manifested" is in the expression of it. There are tangible artifacts to be seen that indicate what's happening and what happened.
If an effort de emphasizes the tangible artifacts of the "excellency" and only chooses to focus on the "excellency" there's no way to understand hmmm, the excellency. We may see in part now, but the part we see tells of the whole.
The Ways' in a very odd state these last many years. Doctrinally it's sort of chasing it's tail in a way that doesn't really go anywhere. There's probably a good way to describe it but I'm mostly buzzed about the SF Giants winning Game One of the World Series! I'm sure some scintillating and illuminating example will show itself.
Didn't the great VP also say, "Every generation must discover the Word for itself"?
Meaning, you have to discover the Word (gag) for yourself. It has to fit in your "day and time".
>>No point nowadays in expecting a person to walk in front of a motor vehicle with a red flag - but the issue of "how fast is too fast?" remains for vehicles today.
>>No point in ignoring newer things, like, say, medical research on animals and pretending it doesn't exist - but how how do you treat the animals otherwise?
>>No point in ignoring medical science that keeps people alive from diseases that would have killed them a mere couple of decades ago - but when is enough medical intervention enough?
>>How do we react to "slavery" today? Not people tranported across the world in ships - but those in their home countries, who work in sweat shops in appalling conditions without safety features that would be expected in factories in our countries - so that we can wear ultra-cheap clothing?
For an ancient book, the Bible's really quite amazing what of today's "issues" it refers to and has something to say about.
And knowing how to apply those principles - is what makes the "new dynamic church" - not digging out some meaning of a Greek word.
I'm trying now, to think of any instance where the Way did actually seek to apply principles to issues of Life now other than to try to compel "obedience". Hmm. Maybe a separate thread....
People and circumstances don't really change a great deal but the peripherals do.
The moral issues remain the same, just what they apply to, and how.
How do we react to "slavery" today? Not people tranported across the world in ships - but those in their home countries, who work in sweat shops in appalling conditions without safety features that would be expected in factories in our countries - so that we can wear ultra-cheap clothing?
People and circumstances don't really change a great deal but the peripherals do.
The moral issues remain the same, just what they apply to, and how.
You probably already know but it's worth under scoring that slavery, in the conventional sense of the word, is alive and well in industrialized nations such as Great Britain and the United States. Tens of thousands of people, many of them children, are transported into the United States each year and sold as sex slaves or laborers. For more information you can Google "Human Trafficking". Sadly, there's a lot of information there.
Still but yeah, BA, every so often there is a season of anti-slavery films and at Greenbelt (Christian Festival) a couple of years ago, the principal act on Sat evg was promoting awareness of anti-trafficking.
But everyday there are ethical choices to make, about what we purchase, use, enjoy, do - or don't do. Sometimes those are not easy choices.
It was Christians - mostly Quakers, some Anglicans - including Wilberforce, a Christian who was a politician - who finally brought the slave trade to an end via legislation in Parliament. It still took years to have full effect. And in the US you had outright civil war about it - and still see effects of that now.
Maybe some of those who are virtual slaves in sweat shops, tea plantations, building sites, mines...are also fellow Christians... or maybe not. Do you have a Fairtrade equivalent in the US? Fairtrade
The choices we make may affect the future a long way ahead - way beyond our lifetimes - try and live responsibly towards your fellow man...on the other side of the planet.
Being a New Dynamic Church means thinking things through for today - not pretending we're the first century church. We can take the best of sharing in our communities - but not limit our community boundary to just our immediate environment.
Let's not forget that the first century new dynamic church looked forward expectantly to the return of Christ, and used that as a yardstick for their daily actions.
well. If it had to be on a certain "sabbath".. and they needed some wine for the wedding..
heck, he wouldn't have to buy it now, would he?
I think (without being too damned egotistical..)
he'd say. "so they have the *deal* for $5.99 meds. You live as you must. You walk through the doors.. make your purchase.. and get the hell out of there as fast as your legs can carry you.."
no cut flowers for da missus, grown in the most fertile of Indian soil, while others starve..
no blue ray, born in China.. produced by the cheapest electrical energy coal, along with that which high sulfur emissions and slave labor can provide..
I think he'd kick the s*it out of the modern world market..
The same disease of greed, discrimination, hatred, arrogance, deceit and egotism that plagues "business" seems to have infiltrated the ranks of the hallowed "new, dynamic dummies"..
and its all over a paltry what.. 17 million or something?
such a small hill of beans for such obnoxious behavior..
The irony (and phony baloney) is they claim to be "the new dynamic church" yet all of their modes of outreach are what worked for Victor Paul Wierwille. They do not take advantage of any social media outlets, and their website doesn't even have a "contact us" button where one could send an inquiry email. Instead they have this:
Please write:
The Way International
Information Center
P.O. Box 328
New Knoxville OH 45871-0328
U.S.A.
Hell, I'm not complaining though, they are the source of their own failures. Instead of figuring out what works today they stubbornly work towards their own defeat, going door to door and stalking walmarts across the land.
Meanwhile the would be victims...I mean adherent...lol...goes home, does a google or two, reads Juedes and GSC and runs like hell!
Maybe some of those who are virtual slaves in sweat shops, tea plantations, building sites, mines...are also fellow Christians... or maybe not. Do you have a Fairtrade equivalent in the US? Fairtrade
Expressing opinions and concerns about the world is part of the purpose of this website. So you just stay on that "soapbox" as long as you want.
Yes, the U.S. has fairtrade equivalents. We buy cheap imported merchandise without giving much thought to the ramifications of how we spend our money. We don't consider that a shirt is inexpensive because it was made by slave labor in a third world country, probably by a child. We also give little thought to the American worker who loses their job because their company's prices are being undercut by cheap foreign competition. (BTW, that was also a major reason for our Civil War.)
We have a free trade law in the U.S. called the "North America Free Trade Agreement", or NAFTA. With NAFTA there is free trade among the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. Mexican labor is cheaper than American labor, so companies often move their operations to Mexico and hire inexpensive Mexican workers. Some think, "Oh! That's good for the Mexicans", but here's the rub, Even though American companies provide steady work with better pay, these workers are paid very little by comparison and therefore their standard of living is not really improving. Meanwhile American workers are losing their jobs. This is the same logic that was used to justify slavery in the American South prior to the Civil War! That is, they reasoned that life was better as a slave in the U.S. than to live a primative life in Africa, so slavery was good, according to them.
Now, before someone decides this post belongs in the political forum, let me just say that my point is that Twinky is correct in saying our everyday decisions, though seemingly small, can have major global implications.
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waysider
The New Dynamic Church
(Volume II, Studies in Abundant Living)
Page 1
Part I
The Dynamic Church
The word "dynamic" in the above title has a double meaning. "Dynamic" primarily denotes the ability to change; dynamic is in direct contrast to static, which shows inertia or sameness.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, that describes The Way, alright----ever changing.
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waysider
So, now, here's the real kick in the butt irony.
On one hand, Wierdwille was stressing that The Way was poised to change and upgrade, as new information came to light.
On the other hand (session 7), he was warning us we must never even consider any opinions that might differ from the prescribed dogma of The Way. (Eve stopped to "consider" and look at the fate she found.) Nope! Gotta STAND! on that "Word" (as defined by VPP Wierdwille in his series on Power For Abundant Living.)
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waysider
So, how are you supposed to ever change if you are bullheadedly committed to never exploring divergent opinions?
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OldSkool
Great points! Wonder if ole' Vic ever realized the extent of his own double talk?
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socks
"Change" is highly over rated as a concept. I heard a presentation today where the information shared was very useful and pertinent but one of the presenters used the word "paradigm" 5 times. He sounded archaic. Just 15 years ago everyone couldn't buzz fast enough around embracing the word, if not the meaning of it and the perceived "shifts" in paradigms that were rockin' the world. As always the book market soared around the contradictory fact that business minds in search of change rushed to know and do what everyone else was doing. Stylish group think. Once one's been through a couple cycles of it it's easy to spot coming a mile away.
Basically I use this rule: by the time I hear about a "new" change that's changing the world and it's been named, weighed and categorzied - it's over. The subsequent tsunamai of marketing popularizes it and the trickle down effect is a small subset of the original idea and potential impact.
The potential of Christian "change" isn't in the repetition of the same change someone else experienced, it's in the new experience that constitutes the change. Same Bible, same species of human beings, same planet. The newness is in the individual. That's impossible to "can" and market. We do attempt to but the "new dynamic church" as promised has to constantly be renewing itself around those being changed to be relevant. Otherwise one ends up an observer, not a participant.
"We have this treasure in earthen vessels, the excellency of the power is of God and not of us"......God's always here, there, always have been and always will be - if we look at it that way the "glory" that's "manifested" is in the expression of it. There are tangible artifacts to be seen that indicate what's happening and what happened.
If an effort de emphasizes the tangible artifacts of the "excellency" and only chooses to focus on the "excellency" there's no way to understand hmmm, the excellency. We may see in part now, but the part we see tells of the whole.
The Ways' in a very odd state these last many years. Doctrinally it's sort of chasing it's tail in a way that doesn't really go anywhere. There's probably a good way to describe it but I'm mostly buzzed about the SF Giants winning Game One of the World Series! I'm sure some scintillating and illuminating example will show itself.
Go Giants!!!
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Twinky
Didn't the great VP also say, "Every generation must discover the Word for itself"?
Meaning, you have to discover the Word (gag) for yourself. It has to fit in your "day and time".
>>No point nowadays in expecting a person to walk in front of a motor vehicle with a red flag - but the issue of "how fast is too fast?" remains for vehicles today.
>>No point in ignoring newer things, like, say, medical research on animals and pretending it doesn't exist - but how how do you treat the animals otherwise?
>>No point in ignoring medical science that keeps people alive from diseases that would have killed them a mere couple of decades ago - but when is enough medical intervention enough?
>>How do we react to "slavery" today? Not people tranported across the world in ships - but those in their home countries, who work in sweat shops in appalling conditions without safety features that would be expected in factories in our countries - so that we can wear ultra-cheap clothing?
For an ancient book, the Bible's really quite amazing what of today's "issues" it refers to and has something to say about.
And knowing how to apply those principles - is what makes the "new dynamic church" - not digging out some meaning of a Greek word.
I'm trying now, to think of any instance where the Way did actually seek to apply principles to issues of Life now other than to try to compel "obedience". Hmm. Maybe a separate thread....
People and circumstances don't really change a great deal but the peripherals do.
The moral issues remain the same, just what they apply to, and how.
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Broken Arrow
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Twinky
Still
but yeah, BA, every so often there is a season of anti-slavery films and at Greenbelt (Christian Festival) a couple of years ago, the principal act on Sat evg was promoting awareness of anti-trafficking.
Here's a link: Stop the Traffik
But everyday there are ethical choices to make, about what we purchase, use, enjoy, do - or don't do. Sometimes those are not easy choices.
It was Christians - mostly Quakers, some Anglicans - including Wilberforce, a Christian who was a politician - who finally brought the slave trade to an end via legislation in Parliament. It still took years to have full effect. And in the US you had outright civil war about it - and still see effects of that now.
Slavery history website
Maybe some of those who are virtual slaves in sweat shops, tea plantations, building sites, mines...are also fellow Christians... or maybe not. Do you have a Fairtrade equivalent in the US? Fairtrade
The choices we make may affect the future a long way ahead - way beyond our lifetimes - try and live responsibly towards your fellow man...on the other side of the planet.
Being a New Dynamic Church means thinking things through for today - not pretending we're the first century church. We can take the best of sharing in our communities - but not limit our community boundary to just our immediate environment.
Let's not forget that the first century new dynamic church looked forward expectantly to the return of Christ, and used that as a yardstick for their daily actions.
I'll get off the soap box now.
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Ham
if you are christian.. maybe a good question to ask would be "where would Jesus shop?"..
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waysider
Would he observe the "Blue Laws"?
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Ham
I dunno..
well. If it had to be on a certain "sabbath".. and they needed some wine for the wedding..
heck, he wouldn't have to buy it now, would he?
I think (without being too damned egotistical..)
he'd say. "so they have the *deal* for $5.99 meds. You live as you must. You walk through the doors.. make your purchase.. and get the hell out of there as fast as your legs can carry you.."
no cut flowers for da missus, grown in the most fertile of Indian soil, while others starve..
no blue ray, born in China.. produced by the cheapest electrical energy coal, along with that which high sulfur emissions and slave labor can provide..
I think he'd kick the s*it out of the modern world market..
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Ham
But to stay on topic.
Da way, is to modern christianity, what wally mart is to da economic world..
they epitomize the philosophy of wally world in a religious sense..
"what did YOU pay for da verd.."
apparently not a hell of a lot..
it was on sale. Isle 9.
sorry, you shouldn't have asked..
New and dynamic..
who says thats always a good thing?
It's like the "change" of unbridled capitalism..
along with its corresponding race to the bottom.. least overhead, least amount of morals to produce..
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Ham
The same disease of greed, discrimination, hatred, arrogance, deceit and egotism that plagues "business" seems to have infiltrated the ranks of the hallowed "new, dynamic dummies"..
and its all over a paltry what.. 17 million or something?
such a small hill of beans for such obnoxious behavior..
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OldSkool
Oh, but Rosalie's battle cry during the Allen lawsuit was "It's Gawd's minastreee!"
I guess her and Donna are gawd?
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OldSkool
The irony (and phony baloney) is they claim to be "the new dynamic church" yet all of their modes of outreach are what worked for Victor Paul Wierwille. They do not take advantage of any social media outlets, and their website doesn't even have a "contact us" button where one could send an inquiry email. Instead they have this:
Hell, I'm not complaining though, they are the source of their own failures. Instead of figuring out what works today they stubbornly work towards their own defeat, going door to door and stalking walmarts across the land.
Meanwhile the would be victims...I mean adherent...lol...goes home, does a google or two, reads Juedes and GSC and runs like hell!
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Broken Arrow
Maybe some of those who are virtual slaves in sweat shops, tea plantations, building sites, mines...are also fellow Christians... or maybe not. Do you have a Fairtrade equivalent in the US? Fairtrade
Expressing opinions and concerns about the world is part of the purpose of this website. So you just stay on that "soapbox" as long as you want.
Yes, the U.S. has fairtrade equivalents. We buy cheap imported merchandise without giving much thought to the ramifications of how we spend our money. We don't consider that a shirt is inexpensive because it was made by slave labor in a third world country, probably by a child. We also give little thought to the American worker who loses their job because their company's prices are being undercut by cheap foreign competition. (BTW, that was also a major reason for our Civil War.)
We have a free trade law in the U.S. called the "North America Free Trade Agreement", or NAFTA. With NAFTA there is free trade among the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. Mexican labor is cheaper than American labor, so companies often move their operations to Mexico and hire inexpensive Mexican workers. Some think, "Oh! That's good for the Mexicans", but here's the rub, Even though American companies provide steady work with better pay, these workers are paid very little by comparison and therefore their standard of living is not really improving. Meanwhile American workers are losing their jobs. This is the same logic that was used to justify slavery in the American South prior to the Civil War! That is, they reasoned that life was better as a slave in the U.S. than to live a primative life in Africa, so slavery was good, according to them.
Now, before someone decides this post belongs in the political forum, let me just say that my point is that Twinky is correct in saying our everyday decisions, though seemingly small, can have major global implications.
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Twinky
Thank; you, Broken Arrow.
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