Playboy has been around for decades, which begs the question, why wait until Hefner is dead to bring forth these charges?
It sounds like you're the one who is begging to ask that question.
Nevertheless, there seems to have been myriad issues of power imbalance at work (or, in play) for all of the "playmates" and girlfriends. To me, that means your question is immensely complex and not easily answered.
According to the LA times, the director didn't begin this work until 2020. Hefner died in 2017. So there's that.
Quite convenient the work begins 3 years after the subject is dead, when the director, and all the playmates from the 70’s and 80’s, had decades to put this together, but chose to wait until the subject could not defend himself. At the end of each show it is stated other playmates, and Hefner’s son, have denied this went on, but this takes up less than a minute of the 60 minute show. There is certainly no efforts to obtain both sides of the argument.
As far as Playboy’s business model making it a cult, it cidn’t. Cult leaders actions are legal and usually never prosecuted for any wrong doing. It is the way they manipulate the subjects to do their devious works. These young women on the program were assured they were on a road to great things. Just by posing in Playboy magazine, or working in a Playboy club, they were going to be at the top.
In the mean time, they were living at the Playboy mansion, and suddenly told the man who has the power to make them stars, now wants them to perform sexually with him. This was never told to them as requirement in the past, but now presently, they are expected to screw the boss and his buddies. Many said they were drugged after presenting themselves in their master’s bedroom. Any if them could have left at anytime, but chose to stay, because they believed great things were around the corner.
To my knowledge, neither Wierwille, Martindale, or any others of a multitude of cult leaders around the country, ever forced woman to have sex with them. But the women did, over and over, have sex with them. Why? They were living some false dream the cult leader convinced them was true, and they would do anything to maintain that false dream.
Many said they were drugged after presenting themselves in their master’s bedroom. Any if them could have left at anytime, but chose to stay, because they believed great things were around the corner.
To my knowledge, neither Wierwille, Martindale, or any others of a multitude of cult leaders around the country, ever forced woman to have sex with them. But the women did, over and over, have sex with them. Why? They were living some false dream the cult leader convinced them was true, and they would do anything to maintain that false dream.
Talking about TWI now:
In Ohio, the location of The Way HQ, having sex with someone who is incapacitated is rape. Wierille's victims who were incapacitated through drugging were raped. It's straightforward. Some victims complied under the threat of dire consequences if they didn't. Threats were made to the effect of ruining people reputations, careers, families and who knows what else. Sex by coercion is rape. Wierwille and Martindale used their positions of authority to persuade others to have sex with them. In Ohio, this is defined as rape. Others who were not sexual victims, but knew what was going on, were sometimes threatened with physical violence to silence them.
They used the business (TWI) as a vehicle to willfully commit illegal acts. Some might put that in the realm of racketeering.
Hefner sold sex. The bunnies sold sex. If someone was confused about that they need a guardian.
Yes, “Hefner sold sex. The bunnies sold sex,” but what does that have to do with sex on demand for Hefmer and his friends, from the bunnies? Would you expect a bartender must drink with his boss on demand?
Hefner’s girlfriends new they would have sex with him, but the other girls did not. Often they were escorted to his bedroom, drugged, and raped. Surely you recognize a problem with such actions?
Yes, “Hefner sold sex. The bunnies sold sex,” but what does that have to do with sex on demand for Hefmer and his friends, from the bunnies? Would you expect a bartender must drink with his boss on demand?
Hefner’s girlfriends new they would have sex with him, but the other girls did not. Often they were escorted to his bedroom, drugged, and raped. Surely you recognize a problem with such actions?
Obviously the acts you're describing are gross. But I'm not sure how that makes Hefner a cult leader, if that's your point.
Your initial statement seems a little self contradictory. I would expect a person to become like the people they spend the most time with.
Unlike Hefner’s girlfriends, no mention was made to playmates they must sleep with Hefner. Until some were drugged and raped, they had no intention of screwing him. After they realized their dream of reaching fame was now also dependent having sex with the boss, they continued doing so.
At this point you could say Hefner exerted a termendous amount of influence over them, that resulted in them sleeping with him.
Or, you could also say, these were grown women, who knew exactly what they were doing, and continued sleeping with Hefner, doing so to achieve their goal of fame.
Comparing these actions to Wierwille and Martindale, after having sex the first time with them, any Way woman who continued screwing them, could have packed their bags and left at anytime. The reason for staying may have been because of undue influence, or they decided it was in their future’s best interest, to continue bedding down with them.
Unless drugs or alcohol were involved, neither Hefner nor Wierwille broke any laws. No woman was underage or had a gun put to their head and told to hit the mattress.
Comparing these actions to Wierwille and Martindale, after having sex the first time with them, any Way woman who continued screwing them, could have packed their bags and left at anytime.
Wow, I just knew I should have joined the Corps. Even leaving a second rate operation like FellowLaborers wasn't as easy as all that. I mean, who knew you wouldn't be threatened with having your marriage destroyed, your career destroyed or having threats leveled at your family? It's a real shame Wierwille didn't have "enforcers" who could pay friendly social visits to outspoken opponents. Of course, there was always that grease spot by midnight thing, but other than that....
"Promises of fame and fortune" are like "eternal rewards at the bema" and "greater works than Jesus" and "standing believing believer in the Household of the remnant in the Family twice removed is better than you"?
Please provide evidence that laws were broken. If laws were broken they were not followed up on by those affected or the authorities, that I am aware of. I was not there so please fill me in, if you will.
"Promises of fame and fortune" are like "eternal rewards at the bema" and "greater works than Jesus" and "standing believing believer in the Household of the remnant in the Family twice removed is better than you"?
Is this what we're doing?
You put it very well Bolshevik, much better than I have been able to. Thank you.
The biggest thing for me was the Grease Spot Before Midnight, but we all had to overcome some lie from TWI. I knew I would be M & A if I continued like I was going, but decided it was time to move on. At that point there was nothing that would hold me back and was willing to suffer any consequences.
I can’t image what women having had sex with Wierwiile went through, but at some point they had to make the decision to leave, also. Many suffered much more psychologically than others, and it seems some are still living with the consequences of what they endured.
At the point of sounding hard or unfelling for these woman, no legal crime was committed against them, at least that I am aware of. If there were crimes please let me know.
Back to the subject of this thread. Some of the women may have been drugged and raped, but they did nothing about it, whether because of fear, didn’t believe anyone would believe them, or possibly many other concerns. But, they continued, many for years, to have sex with Hefner. Some even described how awful it was to have sex with a dirty old man, but they did continue to do so.
Please provide evidence that laws were broken. If laws were broken they were not followed up on by those affected or the authorities, that I am aware of. I was not there so please fill me in, if you will.
Well... there WERE allegations of laws being broken. Martindale WAS subject to litigation. IOW, there are records on GSC of at least two such situations in which "those affected" DID follow up. The business (non-profit organization) of TWI settled. That IS essentially, by default, or at least by implication, conviction with civil liability. Therefore, your claim seems hallow. You can search this website for details and names.
Well... there WERE allegations of laws being broken. Martindale WAS subject to litigation. IOW, there are records on GSC of at least two such situations in which "those affected" DID follow up. The business (non-profit organization) of TWI settled. That IS essentially, by default, or at least by implication, conviction with civil liability. Therefore, your claim seems hallow. You can search this website for details and names.
Thank you Rocky. I should have looked into it more thoroughly.
Thank you Rocky. I should have looked into it more thoroughly.
Of course, Wierwille died well before the advent of the interwebs and cellphone cameras and voice recorders. That may be why the Me Too movement only emerged over the last few years.
Gloria Steinem went undercover as a cocktail waitress in a Playboy club. That was 1963.
Part what molded Heffner was coming back from The War and learning of his partner's numerous affairs. He married anyway. It wasn't pleasant. He was raised by strict Methodists.
So this morning I saw a crow harass a bunch of baby bunnies onto the highway and was reminded of this.
Notice how these monsters have no respect for the lungs of others.
"Heffner has built an empire based on oppressing women..." Heff obviously disagreed. Nevertheless, TWI built a cult which had, as a feature, oppressing women... and men too, but women for sex because they all "belonged to the king." Right?
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Rocky
It sounds like you're the one who is begging to ask that question.
Nevertheless, there seems to have been myriad issues of power imbalance at work (or, in play) for all of the "playmates" and girlfriends. To me, that means your question is immensely complex and not easily answered.
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Stayed Too Long
Obviously, Rocky, I am asking the question. I didn’t think anyone would not believe the question came from me. What is your point?
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Bolshevik
According to the LA times, the director didn't begin this work until 2020. Hefner died in 2017. So there's that.
Are you claiming his business model made it a cult?
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Stayed Too Long
Quite convenient the work begins 3 years after the subject is dead, when the director, and all the playmates from the 70’s and 80’s, had decades to put this together, but chose to wait until the subject could not defend himself. At the end of each show it is stated other playmates, and Hefner’s son, have denied this went on, but this takes up less than a minute of the 60 minute show. There is certainly no efforts to obtain both sides of the argument.
As far as Playboy’s business model making it a cult, it cidn’t. Cult leaders actions are legal and usually never prosecuted for any wrong doing. It is the way they manipulate the subjects to do their devious works. These young women on the program were assured they were on a road to great things. Just by posing in Playboy magazine, or working in a Playboy club, they were going to be at the top.
In the mean time, they were living at the Playboy mansion, and suddenly told the man who has the power to make them stars, now wants them to perform sexually with him. This was never told to them as requirement in the past, but now presently, they are expected to screw the boss and his buddies. Many said they were drugged after presenting themselves in their master’s bedroom. Any if them could have left at anytime, but chose to stay, because they believed great things were around the corner.
To my knowledge, neither Wierwille, Martindale, or any others of a multitude of cult leaders around the country, ever forced woman to have sex with them. But the women did, over and over, have sex with them. Why? They were living some false dream the cult leader convinced them was true, and they would do anything to maintain that false dream.
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Rocky
Just that "begging the question" does not equal raising the question for someone to answer, but rather represents an argument fallacy.
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waysider
Talking about TWI now:
In Ohio, the location of The Way HQ, having sex with someone who is incapacitated is rape. Wierille's victims who were incapacitated through drugging were raped. It's straightforward. Some victims complied under the threat of dire consequences if they didn't. Threats were made to the effect of ruining people reputations, careers, families and who knows what else. Sex by coercion is rape. Wierwille and Martindale used their positions of authority to persuade others to have sex with them. In Ohio, this is defined as rape. Others who were not sexual victims, but knew what was going on, were sometimes threatened with physical violence to silence them.
They used the business (TWI) as a vehicle to willfully commit illegal acts. Some might put that in the realm of racketeering.
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Bolshevik
Alexandra Dean is about 48 years old now. Hefner was 91 in 2017.
Wierwille and Martindale in positions to be examples of ideal husbands as Christians. They were not.
Hefner sold sex. The bunnies sold sex. If someone was confused about that they need a guardian.
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Stayed Too Long
Yes, “Hefner sold sex. The bunnies sold sex,” but what does that have to do with sex on demand for Hefmer and his friends, from the bunnies? Would you expect a bartender must drink with his boss on demand?
Hefner’s girlfriends new they would have sex with him, but the other girls did not. Often they were escorted to his bedroom, drugged, and raped. Surely you recognize a problem with such actions?
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Bolshevik
Obviously the acts you're describing are gross. But I'm not sure how that makes Hefner a cult leader, if that's your point.
Your initial statement seems a little self contradictory. I would expect a person to become like the people they spend the most time with.
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Stayed Too Long
Unlike Hefner’s girlfriends, no mention was made to playmates they must sleep with Hefner. Until some were drugged and raped, they had no intention of screwing him. After they realized their dream of reaching fame was now also dependent having sex with the boss, they continued doing so.
At this point you could say Hefner exerted a termendous amount of influence over them, that resulted in them sleeping with him.
Or, you could also say, these were grown women, who knew exactly what they were doing, and continued sleeping with Hefner, doing so to achieve their goal of fame.
Comparing these actions to Wierwille and Martindale, after having sex the first time with them, any Way woman who continued screwing them, could have packed their bags and left at anytime. The reason for staying may have been because of undue influence, or they decided it was in their future’s best interest, to continue bedding down with them.
Unless drugs or alcohol were involved, neither Hefner nor Wierwille broke any laws. No woman was underage or had a gun put to their head and told to hit the mattress.
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waysider
Wow, I just knew I should have joined the Corps. Even leaving a second rate operation like FellowLaborers wasn't as easy as all that. I mean, who knew you wouldn't be threatened with having your marriage destroyed, your career destroyed or having threats leveled at your family? It's a real shame Wierwille didn't have "enforcers" who could pay friendly social visits to outspoken opponents. Of course, there was always that grease spot by midnight thing, but other than that....
Edited by waysidermissed a word
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Bolshevik
"Promises of fame and fortune" are like "eternal rewards at the bema" and "greater works than Jesus" and "standing believing believer in the Household of the remnant in the Family twice removed is better than you"?
Is this what we're doing?
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waysider
Do we really want to go there?
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Stayed Too Long
Please provide evidence that laws were broken. If laws were broken they were not followed up on by those affected or the authorities, that I am aware of. I was not there so please fill me in, if you will.
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Stayed Too Long
You put it very well Bolshevik, much better than I have been able to. Thank you.
The biggest thing for me was the Grease Spot Before Midnight, but we all had to overcome some lie from TWI. I knew I would be M & A if I continued like I was going, but decided it was time to move on. At that point there was nothing that would hold me back and was willing to suffer any consequences.
I can’t image what women having had sex with Wierwiile went through, but at some point they had to make the decision to leave, also. Many suffered much more psychologically than others, and it seems some are still living with the consequences of what they endured.
At the point of sounding hard or unfelling for these woman, no legal crime was committed against them, at least that I am aware of. If there were crimes please let me know.
Back to the subject of this thread. Some of the women may have been drugged and raped, but they did nothing about it, whether because of fear, didn’t believe anyone would believe them, or possibly many other concerns. But, they continued, many for years, to have sex with Hefner. Some even described how awful it was to have sex with a dirty old man, but they did continue to do so.
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Rocky
Well... there WERE allegations of laws being broken. Martindale WAS subject to litigation. IOW, there are records on GSC of at least two such situations in which "those affected" DID follow up. The business (non-profit organization) of TWI settled. That IS essentially, by default, or at least by implication, conviction with civil liability. Therefore, your claim seems hallow. You can search this website for details and names.
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Stayed Too Long
Thank you Rocky. I should have looked into it more thoroughly.
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Rocky
Of course, Wierwille died well before the advent of the interwebs and cellphone cameras and voice recorders. That may be why the Me Too movement only emerged over the last few years.
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Bolshevik
Wasn't slavery once law? Law and wether it was broken is a rather crude metric.
I don't think folks overcome lies to leave. There are very real consequences. It's a price to pay in leaving and each person has to decide to pay it.
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Bolshevik
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Bolshevik
So this morning I saw a crow harass a bunch of baby bunnies onto the highway and was reminded of this.
Notice how these monsters have no respect for the lungs of others.
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Bolshevik
Gloria Steinem went undercover as a cocktail waitress in a Playboy club. That was 1963.
Part what molded Heffner was coming back from The War and learning of his partner's numerous affairs. He married anyway. It wasn't pleasant. He was raised by strict Methodists.
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Rocky
"Heffner has built an empire based on oppressing women..." Heff obviously disagreed. Nevertheless, TWI built a cult which had, as a feature, oppressing women... and men too, but women for sex because they all "belonged to the king." Right?
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Rocky
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollo_May
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Brownmiller
https://www.sallykempton.com/about/meet-sally/
Intriguing individuals. Intriguing body language too.
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