I'm very sorry to hear that Lifted Up, sorry you had to go through that. TWI screwed up and missed an excellent opportunity when it taught but failed to strictly enforce God's will when it came to believers needing their sexual needs met -- otherwise known as "marriage".
II was never full on assaulted while in TWI. I was sexually groped by women a few times, though. I can't say it had much lasting effect, other than to give me a faint glimpse of what women must frequently endure.
There was an incident at ROA (Rock of Ages), however, that struck a chord with me. As I was lying half asleep in my tent, another man entered from behind me and assumed I was asleep. He laid down and began to fondle me. For a brief moment, I thought it was a female friend. I rolled over, realized it was a man and punched him in the face a couple of times.. I don't suppose it could have hurt very much, as I was on my back and punching upward. He got to his feet and fled immediately. It happened very quickly, it was dark and he was turned away from me, so I don't know who he was. Now, this was back in the days when everything, including homosexuality, was a "devil spirit". It didn't affect me in a sexual sense but it made me give some serious thought to my spirituality. "Why didn't I get revelation? Did I have a spirit that attracted him?"...all that sort of thing. I was an Advance Class grad, after all. I couldn't and didn't tell anyone, for fear of being seen as "spiritually weak". There was a real struggle in my mind, trying to understand why all this spiritual stuff just didn't seem to be clicking with me like it was with everyone else. A lot of unresolved thoughts and questions lingered in my mind. Well. I know it doesn't sound like much. I still remember it, though, even 50 years after the fact.
Sorry to hear that, Waysider. Very confusing for you. Confusing for a non-Christian; for an AC grad who had been taught about "homo spirits" doubly confusing. You did the right thing, punching him away.
Lifted Up, same for you.
I hope it's given you both the empathy to understand female victims of sexual assault - how it might happen, their shame around the incident (though it's not their shame at all but the perpetrator's), and their fear of telling anyone (taking sometimes years to speak out) - and fear of other such assaults.
I hope you brought up your sons/nephews/other males in your purview well - teaching them to keep their hands to themselves.
Oldiesman, Thank you. Waysider, I would say you WERE sexually assaulted. It certainly sounds as bad or worse than what happened to the two Penn State abuse survivors I have spoken with. ( I went to that school before TWI.) Twinky, empathy for female survivors is what finally led me to recalled my own assault. I was deprogrammed from TWI, and although out physically, I was still in mentally, and refused to believe anything bad happened to anyone, including myself. But I heard and saw so many accounts that my empathy led me to shudder at what they went through, I finally believed them. Then fellow 8th corps Kristen Skedgell's book brought me to the lip of the cup. And my survivor friend evidently knew I was a survivor from work I was doing for her group, of which she is currently president. She posted things she knows about male survivor issues, and my memory fell into place after 38 years, every detail. Which is not as long as the 69 years it took me to recall my child abuse. My first therapist told me early on never to underestimate the effect of my assault on myself. My survivor friend suffered through child abuse multiple times, while she was doing tv no less. I started my recovery way late (no pun meant) but it is going well with therapy, a support group, and continued contact with my survivor friend. I have also gained a couple more friends who are teaching me how though my assault was not my fault, I DO have to do things to help my own healing. Even at 75.
I "lost my virginity" at age 11. AGE ELEVEN. To a 19 year woman who was in the Corps. She was my "sub parent" while my mother was on light bearers. This woman was not at all mature or "ready" to be in a "leadership" training like The Way Corps. Not sure who thought she was a good idea.
This sort of abuse would be clearly tragic if I were a woman. As a boy, I told a few adults and got a pat on my back "ATTABOY" but mostly no one believed me.
An 11 year old is not ready for the responsibility of sex and the ensuing humiliation of me thinking she was now my girlfriend only to have her laugh at me, threaten me and tell me how bad I was in bed. I also spent a few years in my teens being sexually aggressive in an effort to get back to the promise land. It took years of therapy for me to learn healthy attitudes about sex.
Recently, I found her on Facebook and sent her a friend request. She is nearly 60 now. First she blocked me. Then she unblocked me and sent a very long apology that was vague as far as admitting her crimes. I don't think she wanted me to have actual evidence. But what she did say is that what she did to me she had done to her and that she didn't know any better and that she was haunted by it. I told her I forgave her then blocked her. I never want to see her face again.
The idea is that any group that runs a program of "leadership training" should be competent to conduct such a program, and be able to understand the FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITIES that go with that.
The way corps was started by vpw. vpw was not a graduate in any leadership programs. He was not a participant in any leadership programs. He was not even in the military. However, he had seen movies about the military. He based his ideas about what this program would involve on movies he saw. He envied the movie generals their ability to tell a recruit "jump" and have the recruit obey automatically. He has no understanding of what training and experience the general had before becoming a general, just what was in the movies. So, once again, vpw pretended he had skills and qualifications he lacked. The first few years of the program made that obvious- he was sort-of throwing things together as he went along. There was no overarching goals for the program's teaching. There was no monthly/weekly breakdown of what was to be taught, let alone HOW. The guiding principles were few enough- the students needed to be obedient and be ready to jump off a cliff if told to do so, the students needed to make sure all of their fees were on time, and all things that twi did in the program were to be done in the cheapest manner possible- FREE if possible.
Where a responsible organization would consider candidates for a leadership program ready to make a 4-year commitment to be a valuable commodity in themselves- and pay for the program and deal with them carefully-, twi treated them largely as DISPOSABLE and saw them in terms of what twi could get immediately- money, sex- and in the long term to see them as de facto slaves to twi who would jump off a bridge decades later if told to do so. The "screening" was very perfunctory. What vpw said to lcm when he was unsure about being able to raise the money was pretty much the standard for screening- "YOU CAN STAY AS LONG AS YOUR MONEY HOLDS!" When the people had to get from one place to another, a responsible group would have at least an old school bus or a passenger van to move them. No, that costs money. They were told to HITCH-HIKE, and even students raped or killed while hitch-hiking didn't get them to change that policy. (Decades later, the lawyers forced them to change things. How despicable is your religious organization if even the LAWYERS think you're irresponsible?)
So, in twi, if you were a stranger, you were pressured to attend twig. If you attended twig, you were pressured to take pfal. If you took pfal, you were pressured to take the Intermediate class. If you took it, you were pressured to take the Advanced class. If you took it, you were pressured to go wow. If you did, you were pressured to go way corps. You were always being leaned on to go further- and to always remember to give twi lots of money.
Everything twi did/does was/is at retail prices. They printed books in house- you paid as if you bought them at B & N. They produced tapes in house on the cheapest grade available- you paid as if you bought them from a commercial store. And the TYPES of donations! You were expected to pay 10% for even the least attention from GOD ALMIGHTY. That went up to 15% and even 20% under lcm. Above that was 'abundant sharing'- and that was expected regularly, above the other amount. twi also had the nerve to make up something else. They said to "plurality give." This didn't mean to donate extras of things. This meant to calculate how much you needed to live on- with no luxuries, no investments, no savings at all- then hand over all the rest of it to twi. Ever hear of another group with the nerve to demand that?
But the screening to enter any program was largely "confirm the limb leader didn't think you'd get arrested", and "can you pay the fee?" and then you were all set. Many people went into programs that weren't ready or suited for them. A few people had breakdowns or were unstable, and a few people died. twi, naturally, took no responsibility for any of that. So, it should not surprise anyone that women were molested and raped in the way corps and working on staff. It should not surprise anyone that some of them might inflict the same on some males. vpw didn't make it public, but he arranged things to make it easy for him to molest and rape women when he was on grounds. Knowing that, it's not shocking others would follow suit.
Many people went into programs that weren't ready or suited for them.
THAT certainly was true in my case. WOW was successful but the Corps no way. In fact, I got it from the horses's mouth to go elsewhere, but was too thick-headed to listen. I personally asked VPW what I should do after WOW... he put his arm around me and said "go back home and apply what you learned." Had I done that, it would have saved me much grief!
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oldiesman
I'm very sorry to hear that Lifted Up, sorry you had to go through that. TWI screwed up and missed an excellent opportunity when it taught but failed to strictly enforce God's will when it came to believers needing their sexual needs met -- otherwise known as "marriage".
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waysider
II was never full on assaulted while in TWI. I was sexually groped by women a few times, though. I can't say it had much lasting effect, other than to give me a faint glimpse of what women must frequently endure.
There was an incident at ROA (Rock of Ages), however, that struck a chord with me. As I was lying half asleep in my tent, another man entered from behind me and assumed I was asleep. He laid down and began to fondle me. For a brief moment, I thought it was a female friend. I rolled over, realized it was a man and punched him in the face a couple of times.. I don't suppose it could have hurt very much, as I was on my back and punching upward. He got to his feet and fled immediately. It happened very quickly, it was dark and he was turned away from me, so I don't know who he was. Now, this was back in the days when everything, including homosexuality, was a "devil spirit". It didn't affect me in a sexual sense but it made me give some serious thought to my spirituality. "Why didn't I get revelation? Did I have a spirit that attracted him?"...all that sort of thing. I was an Advance Class grad, after all. I couldn't and didn't tell anyone, for fear of being seen as "spiritually weak". There was a real struggle in my mind, trying to understand why all this spiritual stuff just didn't seem to be clicking with me like it was with everyone else. A lot of unresolved thoughts and questions lingered in my mind. Well. I know it doesn't sound like much. I still remember it, though, even 50 years after the fact.
Edited by waysiderclarity
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Twinky
Sorry to hear that, Waysider. Very confusing for you. Confusing for a non-Christian; for an AC grad who had been taught about "homo spirits" doubly confusing. You did the right thing, punching him away.
Lifted Up, same for you.
I hope it's given you both the empathy to understand female victims of sexual assault - how it might happen, their shame around the incident (though it's not their shame at all but the perpetrator's), and their fear of telling anyone (taking sometimes years to speak out) - and fear of other such assaults.
I hope you brought up your sons/nephews/other males in your purview well - teaching them to keep their hands to themselves.
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Lifted Up
Oldiesman, Thank you. Waysider, I would say you WERE sexually assaulted. It certainly sounds as bad or worse than what happened to the two Penn State abuse survivors I have spoken with. ( I went to that school before TWI.) Twinky, empathy for female survivors is what finally led me to recalled my own assault. I was deprogrammed from TWI, and although out physically, I was still in mentally, and refused to believe anything bad happened to anyone, including myself. But I heard and saw so many accounts that my empathy led me to shudder at what they went through, I finally believed them. Then fellow 8th corps Kristen Skedgell's book brought me to the lip of the cup. And my survivor friend evidently knew I was a survivor from work I was doing for her group, of which she is currently president. She posted things she knows about male survivor issues, and my memory fell into place after 38 years, every detail. Which is not as long as the 69 years it took me to recall my child abuse. My first therapist told me early on never to underestimate the effect of my assault on myself. My survivor friend suffered through child abuse multiple times, while she was doing tv no less. I started my recovery way late (no pun meant) but it is going well with therapy, a support group, and continued contact with my survivor friend. I have also gained a couple more friends who are teaching me how though my assault was not my fault, I DO have to do things to help my own healing. Even at 75.
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waysider
Article on Dr. Strauss (abuse of athletes)
HERE
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Junior Corps Surviver
I "lost my virginity" at age 11. AGE ELEVEN. To a 19 year woman who was in the Corps. She was my "sub parent" while my mother was on light bearers. This woman was not at all mature or "ready" to be in a "leadership" training like The Way Corps. Not sure who thought she was a good idea.
This sort of abuse would be clearly tragic if I were a woman. As a boy, I told a few adults and got a pat on my back "ATTABOY" but mostly no one believed me.
An 11 year old is not ready for the responsibility of sex and the ensuing humiliation of me thinking she was now my girlfriend only to have her laugh at me, threaten me and tell me how bad I was in bed. I also spent a few years in my teens being sexually aggressive in an effort to get back to the promise land. It took years of therapy for me to learn healthy attitudes about sex.
Recently, I found her on Facebook and sent her a friend request. She is nearly 60 now. First she blocked me. Then she unblocked me and sent a very long apology that was vague as far as admitting her crimes. I don't think she wanted me to have actual evidence. But what she did say is that what she did to me she had done to her and that she didn't know any better and that she was haunted by it. I told her I forgave her then blocked her. I never want to see her face again.
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WordWolf
The idea is that any group that runs a program of "leadership training" should be competent to conduct such a program, and be able to understand the FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITIES that go with that.
The way corps was started by vpw. vpw was not a graduate in any leadership programs. He was not a participant in any leadership programs. He was not even in the military. However, he had seen movies about the military. He based his ideas about what this program would involve on movies he saw. He envied the movie generals their ability to tell a recruit "jump" and have the recruit obey automatically. He has no understanding of what training and experience the general had before becoming a general, just what was in the movies. So, once again, vpw pretended he had skills and qualifications he lacked. The first few years of the program made that obvious- he was sort-of throwing things together as he went along. There was no overarching goals for the program's teaching. There was no monthly/weekly breakdown of what was to be taught, let alone HOW. The guiding principles were few enough- the students needed to be obedient and be ready to jump off a cliff if told to do so, the students needed to make sure all of their fees were on time, and all things that twi did in the program were to be done in the cheapest manner possible- FREE if possible.
Where a responsible organization would consider candidates for a leadership program ready to make a 4-year commitment to be a valuable commodity in themselves- and pay for the program and deal with them carefully-, twi treated them largely as DISPOSABLE and saw them in terms of what twi could get immediately- money, sex- and in the long term to see them as de facto slaves to twi who would jump off a bridge decades later if told to do so. The "screening" was very perfunctory. What vpw said to lcm when he was unsure about being able to raise the money was pretty much the standard for screening- "YOU CAN STAY AS LONG AS YOUR MONEY HOLDS!" When the people had to get from one place to another, a responsible group would have at least an old school bus or a passenger van to move them. No, that costs money. They were told to HITCH-HIKE, and even students raped or killed while hitch-hiking didn't get them to change that policy. (Decades later, the lawyers forced them to change things. How despicable is your religious organization if even the LAWYERS think you're irresponsible?)
So, in twi, if you were a stranger, you were pressured to attend twig. If you attended twig, you were pressured to take pfal. If you took pfal, you were pressured to take the Intermediate class. If you took it, you were pressured to take the Advanced class. If you took it, you were pressured to go wow. If you did, you were pressured to go way corps. You were always being leaned on to go further- and to always remember to give twi lots of money.
Everything twi did/does was/is at retail prices. They printed books in house- you paid as if you bought them at B & N. They produced tapes in house on the cheapest grade available- you paid as if you bought them from a commercial store. And the TYPES of donations! You were expected to pay 10% for even the least attention from GOD ALMIGHTY. That went up to 15% and even 20% under lcm. Above that was 'abundant sharing'- and that was expected regularly, above the other amount. twi also had the nerve to make up something else. They said to "plurality give." This didn't mean to donate extras of things. This meant to calculate how much you needed to live on- with no luxuries, no investments, no savings at all- then hand over all the rest of it to twi. Ever hear of another group with the nerve to demand that?
But the screening to enter any program was largely "confirm the limb leader didn't think you'd get arrested", and "can you pay the fee?" and then you were all set. Many people went into programs that weren't ready or suited for them. A few people had breakdowns or were unstable, and a few people died. twi, naturally, took no responsibility for any of that. So, it should not surprise anyone that women were molested and raped in the way corps and working on staff. It should not surprise anyone that some of them might inflict the same on some males. vpw didn't make it public, but he arranged things to make it easy for him to molest and rape women when he was on grounds. Knowing that, it's not shocking others would follow suit.
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oldiesman
THAT certainly was true in my case. WOW was successful but the Corps no way. In fact, I got it from the horses's mouth to go elsewhere, but was too thick-headed to listen. I personally asked VPW what I should do after WOW... he put his arm around me and said "go back home and apply what you learned." Had I done that, it would have saved me much grief!
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