Yep. And even as a doctrine it did gradually change- the "beloved" once were "beloved". Slowly, this was mutated into "those who endear (work their rear ends off down to the bone) themselves to the Father.
Yeah, God loves you and so do we as long as you take this class, enroll in that program, subscribe to x amount of tapes and magazines....demonstrate your spiritual worthiness by your unconditional obediance to any designated leader...which obviously equates with loving God...
God could only love you if you were in the current favor of your immediate leadership.....otherwise you were spiritually *suspicious* and unworthey of fellowship with the rest of the body of christ and therefor outside the will and love of God.
I only felt love when I was signed up for classes...signed up for programs, bringing a new person to twig....giving something that leaders wanted...be it something physical or my time....
I was only worthey of love when I had something that they wanted.
OM, yeah, I think the warm & fuzzy experiences depended on where you were and who your leaders were, but by the time I got involved in 1993 there were no warm & fuzzy people or teachings to be had.
I know PFAL started out that way but by the end of the class if you weren't speaking in tongues and tithing and jumping through other hoops, you weren't feeling the luv....
If you didn't receive God's love in the first place, you'd have no basis to stay there all that time.
God's love was no mirage, it was real at one time.
Gonna have to disagree with you there, OM. ;)-->
I never got the love. I got the ego boost from learning Bible that nobody else knew; from being told that I now knew more than the average minister. I stayed because my local WC kept coming by my house and checking up on me whenever I missed a meeting. I completely sold out when my ex pointed out the hypocracy in my life (saying I wanted to live according to TWI's version of the word, but going out partying every night). I absolutely abhor hypocracy! Can't stand it....gets me all riled up!! To think I was living like that really p*ssed me off. So, I started doing whatever they said to do. Love had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with it in my case. It was just the "logical thing to do".
It is my opinion, that the *honey moon* generally lasted as long as you were giving 100 percent.
As soon as you wanted to do something other than what was next on the leaders agenda....you were poo poo.
I think that probably it stayed nice for a year beause that was generally how long they babied you .... after that it was time to kick bu tt....you needed to start proving your commitment, you spiritual worthiness....ie wow, advanced classes and corpes.
If you didn`t do as recomended......no love for YOU!
LOL! The "Love Nazi" came out of his shell once we quit giving 100%, didn't he? The more you gave the more they wanted and the harder they pushed you, but by then you had totally forgotten about the love and quit thinking about God's love, but whether or not you were going to make your leadership mad at you.
Phileo was for the lower beings, it was only emotional, it was conditional, it was human.
Thus, we need not pay it much heed.
BUT AGAPE, now that's love. We don't need no phileo.
Or eros, unless you're top leadership, and you can have all the eros you want from whoever you want, because you're so spiritual and full of AGAPE that you can handle it.
At the risk of getting all warm & fuzzy, I mention the unconditionality of God's love is what made twi successful in winning people to the Lord.
That love is also what motivated many of us to dedicate/sacrifice portions of our lives to the godly cause.
I'll grant that the illusion of unconditional love attracted and motivated a lot of people. The problem (at least one of them) was that it was an illusion (delusion?) but not a reality.
Or eros, unless you're top leadership, and you can have all the eros you want from whoever you want, because you're so spiritual and full of AGAPE that you can handle it.
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oldiesman
God's love was one of the first things I learned in twi, starting with the sacrifice of Christ and incorruptibility of the new birth.
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Belle
That's what they start with, OM, but by the time you've been there for a while they've added all kinds of conditions to that love.
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Ham
Yep. And even as a doctrine it did gradually change- the "beloved" once were "beloved". Slowly, this was mutated into "those who endear (work their rear ends off down to the bone) themselves to the Father.
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oldiesman
That love is also what motivated many of us to dedicate/sacrifice portions of our lives to the godly cause.
Some of twi doctrine made us worthy before God at all times. No conditions other than biblical believing.
How many times were we exhorted to read Ephesians? If you let that sink in, you got a taste of God's love, and many of us did.
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rascal
Yup Belle, God loves you BUT!....he requires a..b...c... in order to be permitted to demonstrate his great love for you....
You will not be able to recieve the greatness of his love or blessings unless you FIRST accomplish d...e...f....
I finally got alla way through the alphabet of requirements n realised that it just didn`t work.
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Belle
OM, you were obviously in a very, very different TWI than I was.
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rascal
Yeah, God loves you and so do we as long as you take this class, enroll in that program, subscribe to x amount of tapes and magazines....demonstrate your spiritual worthiness by your unconditional obediance to any designated leader...which obviously equates with loving God...
Yeah Boy, I sure miss THOSE days....NOT!
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oldiesman
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rascal
God could only love you if you were in the current favor of your immediate leadership.....otherwise you were spiritually *suspicious* and unworthey of fellowship with the rest of the body of christ and therefor outside the will and love of God.
I only felt love when I was signed up for classes...signed up for programs, bringing a new person to twig....giving something that leaders wanted...be it something physical or my time....
I was only worthey of love when I had something that they wanted.
Nice folks....
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rascal
Belle, the warm fuzzies were gone as far back as 79 ...I can tell you that much.
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oldiesman
"Freely ye have received, freely give".
Remember that one?
Which was why we got involved.
We received much, therefore, it was incumbent upon us to give, to help others receive what we had received. That's what commitment was all about.
Otherwise, we would have walked out, like many have, and not given it a second thought.
If you didn't receive God's love in the first place, you'd have no basis to stay there all that time.
God's love was no mirage, it was real at one time.
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Belle
OM, yeah, I think the warm & fuzzy experiences depended on where you were and who your leaders were, but by the time I got involved in 1993 there were no warm & fuzzy people or teachings to be had.
I know PFAL started out that way but by the end of the class if you weren't speaking in tongues and tithing and jumping through other hoops, you weren't feeling the luv....
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rascal
Agreed, that was the company line anyway ....oldies.
What an impressive sounding schpeal to set one up for a lifetime of extortion in God`s name....BRILLIANT!
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Ham
The TWI I left in 1996 was VASTLY different than the one I "joined" in 1974.
Of course it was VASTLY different in 1975 also.
The "honeymoon" may last about a year for most people.. some it lasted a LOT longer. God only knows why..
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Belle
Gonna have to disagree with you there, OM.
;)-->
I never got the love. I got the ego boost from learning Bible that nobody else knew; from being told that I now knew more than the average minister. I stayed because my local WC kept coming by my house and checking up on me whenever I missed a meeting. I completely sold out when my ex pointed out the hypocracy in my life (saying I wanted to live according to TWI's version of the word, but going out partying every night). I absolutely abhor hypocracy! Can't stand it....gets me all riled up!! To think I was living like that really p*ssed me off. So, I started doing whatever they said to do. Love had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with it in my case. It was just the "logical thing to do".
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rascal
It is my opinion, that the *honey moon* generally lasted as long as you were giving 100 percent.
As soon as you wanted to do something other than what was next on the leaders agenda....you were poo poo.
I think that probably it stayed nice for a year beause that was generally how long they babied you .... after that it was time to kick bu tt....you needed to start proving your commitment, you spiritual worthiness....ie wow, advanced classes and corpes.
If you didn`t do as recomended......no love for YOU!
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Belle
LOL! The "Love Nazi" came out of his shell once we quit giving 100%, didn't he? The more you gave the more they wanted and the harder they pushed you, but by then you had totally forgotten about the love and quit thinking about God's love, but whether or not you were going to make your leadership mad at you.
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Ham
Sung to a familiar tune:
"Oh we love you, love you, love you.
And we'll sing it once again..
Oh we love you, love you, love you..
But its wearing awfully thin..
Can't you sign the stupid green card,
and take our stupid class,
Our leader he just told us,
'no class, I'll kick your a**'."
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Ham
Those were the "good old days".. sigh..
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outandabout
They liked to teach about phileo and agape.
Phileo was for the lower beings, it was only emotional, it was conditional, it was human.
Thus, we need not pay it much heed.
BUT AGAPE, now that's love. We don't need no phileo.
Or eros, unless you're top leadership, and you can have all the eros you want from whoever you want, because you're so spiritual and full of AGAPE that you can handle it.
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likeaneagle
Belle
we do need to talk.
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CoolWaters
These two statements encapsulate exactly the problem with twi: it was all about twi...not about God at all.
No love can be had or can abide in such a thing.
So anybody who 'felt love' in twi was feeling the favor of twi...not God's love at all...
Couldn't have possibly felt God's love...
TWI did not/does not serve God.
The bible says so...
For twi's 'fruit' is not fruit at all, but works of the flesh...
And the bible says "by their fruit you will know them".
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LG
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oenophile
Methinks they were full of something else.
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