That "every woman in the kingdom belonged to the King" line. I was a very young and impressionable woman at the time of PFAL and I NEVER thought that that meant that I was to service the MOG.
The way I took it was - That was the way a King treated his subjects at that time. It amazes me that anyone got anything more out of that. Now you can say I was out of it - or you can say I was smart - I really don't care - but I think it is a real stretch to look at the events we know happened and try to go back with perfect hindsight and figure out where it all started. isnt' that a bit like the was TWI handled the Word in the end?
Me niether doojable, it was all very innocent on the surface......however when many of the women were being groomed for service wierwille and lcm........there were things shared .... specific teachings that were used to silence the girls objections.
I am telling you what a couple of girls told me happened......and what other posters here have related.
They couldn`t just come out and tell these young women *look the mog wants you to have sex with him*
There was a series of sharings usually from a specific work co ordinator or ones corpes tc`s . When they entered residence all of a sudden they were the focus of the attentions of some highly placed women.... the girls who have shared, said that it was generally about a three month process where it never dawned on them what they were being prepared for.....but there was always more than one person that were coaching....pretty soon the girl was rather isolated accept for these sepcial friends....pretty sinister...
I am telling you that THIS rational was but one of the reasonings that the girls themselves have said were told to them that made what was being required appear as justifiable and why it was NOT considered adultery or fornication.
There were others....like there is no part of the body that is better than the other.... a p---- in a v------ is no different than a finger in the ear.....
All things are lawfull to them which are in Christ..... it`s just a matter of what you can handle.....
So many have shared how they were cornered....most say that the same logic with scriptural back up was applied....and that the pressure grew relentless...
Ok - well if that's what happened I certainly can't deny that. I'm just grateful tht I wasn't one of those girls. I had a hard upbringing, was Desparate for love, and I was very naiive. i wasn't drop dead gorgeous but I wasn't a "dog" either.
I am certainly surprised. It never occured to met that this was going on behind the scenes.
Well Rascal, like I've said before, if any of that stuff happened around me while in TWI, I was totally unaware of it. The only one I suspected of it was Del D*nC*n who hit on my 11th Corps girlfriend. And although I was appalled by it, I just thought of it as an isolated incident. If something like this happened to my daughter or wife, then of course I would not be happy about it. But I wouldn't look at that part of PFAL about "the king having the right to every woman in the land" as subliminal effort to build a "sex farm". And Oakspear, sorry for the outburst, but, I did think it ridiculous to attribute that part of the class as an effort by VPW to recruit sex slaves. And yes, I always did wonder at the accuracy of that statement. I never did think it compatible with "thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife", and so I thought it a cultural thing. But, regardless of whether the practice existed, I still think it was presented that way simply to illustrate that King David could have had lots of other women if he wanted them, and so why take this guy's one wife? And that is still why I think VP put it that way, not for the purpose of "getting sex" down the road.
And for that matter, if you remember the reproof from God via Nathan the prophet, the analogy there was that the one guy with a great number of sheep, went and took that one only little old lamb from his poor neighbor guy. Seems to me that the analogy indicated that David had lots of women or could have lots of women, and so why did he take Uriah's only wife? And so, VPW may have commited these acts of indecency, but to look at every little thing like that and say that it was all part of the "grand conspiracy" is just a bit much.
By the way, my wife, after we were kicked out of The Way, told me of a time when LCM tried to have sex with her. Some of you may remember sharing this before. She had escorted him to his hotel room after a Corps meeting, and he asked for a back rub. She gave him a backrub for awhile, and then he turned over on his back and began to grab her breasts. And, my wife, shocked, read him the riot act, reminded him that he was married, that adultery was off the Word, and that as the Corps Director, he of all people should know that It Is Written was supposed to be his motto too! And she walked out. Later he sent her a letter of apology
And so, I guess that was the one and only way to handle those situations. It worked for her, and she for some reason was never blackballed for it. In fact, Craig always treated her with extra respect after that. Probably because he was afraid she might spill the beans. But most definitely never tried it again.
Things happened the way they happened, and I just don't like the idea assigning blame to a certain section of teaching that was in my opinion, innocuous. The vile predations stand on their own, and I don't think that "supposed subliminal messages" through out PFAL were needed for the sex to happen. Other methods of seduction yes, but I doubt this one about King David
And White Dove, I know those girls! They were at the same frat party I was at last night! They are really good at beer bonging!
Doojable, this is exactly what a couple of different people shared with me that happened to them when they entered the corpes at a very young vulnerable age.
there are also some stories on a different web site where different women had the same thing happen with the same teachings and pressure.
Some were immediatly dismissed from the corpes and escorted off grounds before they could speak to anyone, one gal told me that by the time she got back to her home state...no one was allowed to speak to her....they had been told that she was thrown out because she was so posessed.
Um Johnny, the girls themselves said that this was one of the points SPECIFICALLY used by wierwille and lcm themselves as to why it was ok and not adultery. This isn`t my personal speculation. I agree one hundred percent that it was a flimsy excuse....but it WAS one of the examples used by these guys to justify their vile actions.
The fact that they BOTH used this line of reason to multiple women gives one to suspect that it wasn`t coincidental. It would appear that there was a whole seperate doctrine used to justify the sating of their lusts.
They knew most of us wouldn`t have put up with it...
I repeat this man was unworthey of our trust regarding our sisters, he is unworthey of our trust in spiritual matters.
Leonards work gave him credence that he couldn`t have otherwise mustered for himself. Leonards work was the vehicle to give credibility to wierwilles crazy doctrines.
Plagerism of this mans work was and still is a big deal....even if you personally benefitted.
Rascal - my heart goes out to those girls. I do have one question: you stated that some were kicked out immediatley - are you referring to those who "read the riot act" or those who didn't? i t really doesn't matter really - but I'm just wondering about how much they treated women as "paper sacks."
While I was in the process of leaving TWI a local "MOG" - "KS" - tried almost the same thing with me - no back rub- just tried to corner me in a kitchen and tell me that I needed to have a "real man" Too yukky to go on...
I was drunk but not so drunk that I was stupid. I pushed him off of me and ran into the living room where a bunch of friends were - thinking they were sitting around with their eyes closed to what was going on. They weren't - they were just oblivious.
Months later when I confronted this guy he just looked at me as innocently as he could muster and told me that he couldn't remember anything like that. I informed him that I was there and if he couldn't remember it it was because he must've been possessed - BUT IT HAPPENED. Later that month he told a bunch of lies about me and my new hubby and tried to say what I was going to tell people. (Which I was willing to keep quiet) Only thing was he was making light of it like I had misunderstood his actions. later on I found out the real reason why he decided to oust me - you see I had found out about as least 2 other women that he had boinked. He knew that I was fairly respected and he knew I could put 2 and 2 together so I had to go.
Oh well, years later i'm glad that I got out of that outfit as well.
Sorry for all the personal drama. just wanted you to know that I could relate to these girls....
So, what came first? The chicken or the egg? Was the comment about the king having any woman he wanted "planted" in the class for future use? Or, was that same comment, later down the road, twisted by dishonest and lascivious men for their own purposes? I think the latter, that's all, for it sounds like a witch hunt around here sometimes...
I remember a verse in the Bible that was twisted all of the time by guys and girls who wanted to justify pre-marital consensual sex. I remember one gal whose advances I spurned, turned around and use this verse to try and keep me interested in a zesty session. And when I still said no, then I was told that I just wasn't spiritually mature enough to handle it and her. That verse is in Romans I believe:
"Happy is the man who condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth"
This verse was definitely written down in English long before I had seen it abused. 1611 to be exact. That doesn't make the Bible vile and pernicious just because someone twists that verse for their own sexual desires. It just seems like some of the "detective work" around this site gets a little out of hand and smacks of the "witch hunt" mentality.
And Doojable, way to go putting your foot down like that! It's too bad there wasn't some tough guy around who could have planted his fist in that mo fo's face!
Gosh Doo, I am so sorry that must`v been upsetting. The b-stards ran you out of town because you were a threat....I am so sorry.
As far as the punishment?....it varied with who and at what time frame in the ministry....The one girl whom refused a threesom with lcm was immediatly escorted off grounds...and her reputation savaged.....I belive that she was simply shocked and timidly refused.....one person told me that they were thrown off of the wow field a week or so after refusing wierwille on his bus....I don`t think that she .....raised a stink, I think she was just terrified.........some who had family members influentially placed were apologised to...go figure
------------------------------
Witch hunt??? Johnny these are things that wierwille AND martindale said to the girls to excuse their actions. not ME!
Wierwille said many things that appeared innocent on the surface ... but were later utilized by him and those he taught to extort his desires.
These were our sisters....these were the teachings that wierwille used to manipulate them .....
I am sorry, it`d be a lot more fun to go on believing that we were some kind of spiritual hot shots....but unfortunatly we were simply what added the appearance of legitimacy to an otherwise cery evil group of men.....just like leonards class was what gave the appearance of a legitimacy to wierwilles depraved ideas.
And so Rascal, maybe we can simply agree to disagree? You believe that the whole thing was a "sex and money farm" from the very beginning with secret, hidden, subliminal messages hidden within PFAL and other early teachings that were designed to manipulate and take our money or your booty. I do not. I say "your booty" because you are a female, and most sexual harrassment comes from men, not women.
I believe that the ministry started out as a genuine effort to teach others about God's love and about God's Word, but then, succumbed to the weakness of the flesh, as has happened throughout all of history it seems. I believe that "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely", which I believe was the case with VPW. The power went to his head, and then he began to "lose it" and, the results that we have read about or have experienced (I won't leave that out for I believe in fairness) have occurred. I am trying to be honest here without being sarcastic as some are, by presenting my "take" on the situation. I believe I am qualified to do so:
I spent fifteen years of my life in The Way. I was eighteen when I got involved in 1975, and I simply cannot deny the night when I got on my knees and prayed to God to send a Christian believer to teach me about God's Word, and the very next day, a WOW Ambassador came to work where I worked, and began to tell me all about the book of Ephesians, and about Jesus Christ my lord. I got born again, and I was a changed person from that day on. One may argue that this could have happened with "any respectable church", and this may be true, but I will argue that God chose that person to witness to me and turn me on to the PFAL class. Why would God betray my honest and innocent prayer request and send a devilish cultist to my assistance? I do not think He would, and I do not believe that He did.
And so Rascal, I hope that we can simply agree to disagree on this. Yes, The Way ended up bad. I just don't think it started out that way as you do. You are welcome to express your opinion on this, and I presume that I am welcome to express the opposite opinion. Are we good? I don't like to argue with someone who likes to fish as much as you do :-) And so, I offer you the olive branch of peace, and may you have a wonderful Christmas Day tomorrow, okay?
So, what came first? The chicken or the egg? Was the comment about the king having any woman he wanted "planted" in the class for future use? Or, was that same comment, later down the road, twisted by dishonest and lascivious men for their own purposes? I think the latter, that's all, for it sounds like a witch hunt around here sometimes...
I vote for "none of the above".
I say it was indicative of his mindset-it showed what he thought of David's SIN.
It was what he and his sick mind did LATER with other comments and
verses that REALLY did more damage.
I remember a verse in the Bible that was twisted all of the time by guys and girls who wanted to justify pre-marital consensual sex. I remember one gal whose advances I spurned, turned around and use this verse to try and keep me interested in a zesty session. And when I still said no, then I was told that I just wasn't spiritually mature enough to handle it and her. That verse is in Romans I believe:
"Happy is the man who condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth"
This verse was definitely written down in English long before I had seen it abused. 1611 to be exact. That doesn't make the Bible vile and pernicious just because someone twists that verse for their own sexual desires.
ANY document can be twisted if you distort it enough.
You completely missed the point there.
Outside of twi, NOBODY uses that verse as justification.
IN twi, quite a few DID.
Was that in SPITE of what vpw said and did,
or BECAUSE of what he did?
I'll quote vpw himself on this one.
Back in the 1960s, vpw was chatting with
someone and ASKED them to describe what
orgies were like. (He OPENED the subject.)
When they-reluctantly-described it, thankful
to have been DELIVERED from it, vpw
commented.
vpw: "You know that's all available.
God put it in I Corinthians 7:1 when He said
'It is good for a man not to touch a woman.'
If it wasn't available to have sex outside the
marriage, God would have said 'best'
instead of 'good'."
The reply: "I just thank God that He pulled
our souls out of that pit of debauchery."
The mind-frame of a man who would pervert Scripture
and claim I Corinthians 7:1 permits orgies
is the same one who would claim that "TECHNICALLY
all the women in the kingdom belonged to the king."
Later, people exposed to his teachings claimed that
but, I did think it ridiculous to attribute that part of the class as an effort by VPW to recruit sex slaves
Not so much a "conspiracy", or a necessarily overt effort "planted" to take advantage in the future, but in my opinion an indication of the man's inclinations, which are certainly borne out by some posters here, and by testimony in other places.
I can't see Vic Wierwille secretly plotting to add subliminal messages to PFAL in order to take advantage at some unspecified future date. But I do believe that the statement is a clue to his mindset. As TWI grew Wierwille had the opportunity to do what may have only been a fantasy when it was not more than a storefront operation.
Neither you or I can go back in time or read a dead man's motives, but what I wrote, while only my opinion, fits the known facts and is far from ridiculous.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
27
35
18
78
Popular Days
Nov 10
47
Nov 7
45
Nov 4
40
Nov 9
35
Top Posters In This Topic
excathedra 27 posts
Raf 35 posts
oldiesman 18 posts
Dot Matrix 78 posts
Popular Days
Nov 10 2003
47 posts
Nov 7 2003
45 posts
Nov 4 2003
40 posts
Nov 9 2003
35 posts
WhiteDove
I felt sorry for you Johnny playing You can't win! all by yourself so I thought I send you some toga girl helpers.
Pass the Popcorn Please........
:lol:
Edited by WhiteDoveLink to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
That "every woman in the kingdom belonged to the King" line. I was a very young and impressionable woman at the time of PFAL and I NEVER thought that that meant that I was to service the MOG.
The way I took it was - That was the way a King treated his subjects at that time. It amazes me that anyone got anything more out of that. Now you can say I was out of it - or you can say I was smart - I really don't care - but I think it is a real stretch to look at the events we know happened and try to go back with perfect hindsight and figure out where it all started. isnt' that a bit like the was TWI handled the Word in the end?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Me niether doojable, it was all very innocent on the surface......however when many of the women were being groomed for service wierwille and lcm........there were things shared .... specific teachings that were used to silence the girls objections.
I am telling you what a couple of girls told me happened......and what other posters here have related.
They couldn`t just come out and tell these young women *look the mog wants you to have sex with him*
There was a series of sharings usually from a specific work co ordinator or ones corpes tc`s . When they entered residence all of a sudden they were the focus of the attentions of some highly placed women.... the girls who have shared, said that it was generally about a three month process where it never dawned on them what they were being prepared for.....but there was always more than one person that were coaching....pretty soon the girl was rather isolated accept for these sepcial friends....pretty sinister...
I am telling you that THIS rational was but one of the reasonings that the girls themselves have said were told to them that made what was being required appear as justifiable and why it was NOT considered adultery or fornication.
There were others....like there is no part of the body that is better than the other.... a p---- in a v------ is no different than a finger in the ear.....
All things are lawfull to them which are in Christ..... it`s just a matter of what you can handle.....
So many have shared how they were cornered....most say that the same logic with scriptural back up was applied....and that the pressure grew relentless...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
Ok - well if that's what happened I certainly can't deny that. I'm just grateful tht I wasn't one of those girls. I had a hard upbringing, was Desparate for love, and I was very naiive. i wasn't drop dead gorgeous but I wasn't a "dog" either.
I am certainly surprised. It never occured to met that this was going on behind the scenes.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
J0nny Ling0
Well Rascal, like I've said before, if any of that stuff happened around me while in TWI, I was totally unaware of it. The only one I suspected of it was Del D*nC*n who hit on my 11th Corps girlfriend. And although I was appalled by it, I just thought of it as an isolated incident. If something like this happened to my daughter or wife, then of course I would not be happy about it. But I wouldn't look at that part of PFAL about "the king having the right to every woman in the land" as subliminal effort to build a "sex farm". And Oakspear, sorry for the outburst, but, I did think it ridiculous to attribute that part of the class as an effort by VPW to recruit sex slaves. And yes, I always did wonder at the accuracy of that statement. I never did think it compatible with "thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife", and so I thought it a cultural thing. But, regardless of whether the practice existed, I still think it was presented that way simply to illustrate that King David could have had lots of other women if he wanted them, and so why take this guy's one wife? And that is still why I think VP put it that way, not for the purpose of "getting sex" down the road.
And for that matter, if you remember the reproof from God via Nathan the prophet, the analogy there was that the one guy with a great number of sheep, went and took that one only little old lamb from his poor neighbor guy. Seems to me that the analogy indicated that David had lots of women or could have lots of women, and so why did he take Uriah's only wife? And so, VPW may have commited these acts of indecency, but to look at every little thing like that and say that it was all part of the "grand conspiracy" is just a bit much.
By the way, my wife, after we were kicked out of The Way, told me of a time when LCM tried to have sex with her. Some of you may remember sharing this before. She had escorted him to his hotel room after a Corps meeting, and he asked for a back rub. She gave him a backrub for awhile, and then he turned over on his back and began to grab her breasts. And, my wife, shocked, read him the riot act, reminded him that he was married, that adultery was off the Word, and that as the Corps Director, he of all people should know that It Is Written was supposed to be his motto too! And she walked out. Later he sent her a letter of apology
And so, I guess that was the one and only way to handle those situations. It worked for her, and she for some reason was never blackballed for it. In fact, Craig always treated her with extra respect after that. Probably because he was afraid she might spill the beans. But most definitely never tried it again.
Things happened the way they happened, and I just don't like the idea assigning blame to a certain section of teaching that was in my opinion, innocuous. The vile predations stand on their own, and I don't think that "supposed subliminal messages" through out PFAL were needed for the sex to happen. Other methods of seduction yes, but I doubt this one about King David
And White Dove, I know those girls! They were at the same frat party I was at last night! They are really good at beer bonging!
Edited by Jonny LingoLink to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Doojable, this is exactly what a couple of different people shared with me that happened to them when they entered the corpes at a very young vulnerable age.
there are also some stories on a different web site where different women had the same thing happen with the same teachings and pressure.
Some were immediatly dismissed from the corpes and escorted off grounds before they could speak to anyone, one gal told me that by the time she got back to her home state...no one was allowed to speak to her....they had been told that she was thrown out because she was so posessed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Um Johnny, the girls themselves said that this was one of the points SPECIFICALLY used by wierwille and lcm themselves as to why it was ok and not adultery. This isn`t my personal speculation. I agree one hundred percent that it was a flimsy excuse....but it WAS one of the examples used by these guys to justify their vile actions.
The fact that they BOTH used this line of reason to multiple women gives one to suspect that it wasn`t coincidental. It would appear that there was a whole seperate doctrine used to justify the sating of their lusts.
They knew most of us wouldn`t have put up with it...
I repeat this man was unworthey of our trust regarding our sisters, he is unworthey of our trust in spiritual matters.
Leonards work gave him credence that he couldn`t have otherwise mustered for himself. Leonards work was the vehicle to give credibility to wierwilles crazy doctrines.
Plagerism of this mans work was and still is a big deal....even if you personally benefitted.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
Rascal - my heart goes out to those girls. I do have one question: you stated that some were kicked out immediatley - are you referring to those who "read the riot act" or those who didn't? i t really doesn't matter really - but I'm just wondering about how much they treated women as "paper sacks."
While I was in the process of leaving TWI a local "MOG" - "KS" - tried almost the same thing with me - no back rub- just tried to corner me in a kitchen and tell me that I needed to have a "real man" Too yukky to go on...
I was drunk but not so drunk that I was stupid. I pushed him off of me and ran into the living room where a bunch of friends were - thinking they were sitting around with their eyes closed to what was going on. They weren't - they were just oblivious.
Months later when I confronted this guy he just looked at me as innocently as he could muster and told me that he couldn't remember anything like that. I informed him that I was there and if he couldn't remember it it was because he must've been possessed - BUT IT HAPPENED. Later that month he told a bunch of lies about me and my new hubby and tried to say what I was going to tell people. (Which I was willing to keep quiet) Only thing was he was making light of it like I had misunderstood his actions. later on I found out the real reason why he decided to oust me - you see I had found out about as least 2 other women that he had boinked. He knew that I was fairly respected and he knew I could put 2 and 2 together so I had to go.
Oh well, years later i'm glad that I got out of that outfit as well.
Sorry for all the personal drama. just wanted you to know that I could relate to these girls....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
J0nny Ling0
So, what came first? The chicken or the egg? Was the comment about the king having any woman he wanted "planted" in the class for future use? Or, was that same comment, later down the road, twisted by dishonest and lascivious men for their own purposes? I think the latter, that's all, for it sounds like a witch hunt around here sometimes...
I remember a verse in the Bible that was twisted all of the time by guys and girls who wanted to justify pre-marital consensual sex. I remember one gal whose advances I spurned, turned around and use this verse to try and keep me interested in a zesty session. And when I still said no, then I was told that I just wasn't spiritually mature enough to handle it and her. That verse is in Romans I believe:
"Happy is the man who condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth"
This verse was definitely written down in English long before I had seen it abused. 1611 to be exact. That doesn't make the Bible vile and pernicious just because someone twists that verse for their own sexual desires. It just seems like some of the "detective work" around this site gets a little out of hand and smacks of the "witch hunt" mentality.
And Doojable, way to go putting your foot down like that! It's too bad there wasn't some tough guy around who could have planted his fist in that mo fo's face!
Edited by Jonny LingoLink to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Gosh Doo, I am so sorry that must`v been upsetting. The b-stards ran you out of town because you were a threat....I am so sorry.
As far as the punishment?....it varied with who and at what time frame in the ministry....The one girl whom refused a threesom with lcm was immediatly escorted off grounds...and her reputation savaged.....I belive that she was simply shocked and timidly refused.....one person told me that they were thrown off of the wow field a week or so after refusing wierwille on his bus....I don`t think that she .....raised a stink, I think she was just terrified.........some who had family members influentially placed were apologised to...go figure
------------------------------
Witch hunt??? Johnny these are things that wierwille AND martindale said to the girls to excuse their actions. not ME!
Wierwille said many things that appeared innocent on the surface ... but were later utilized by him and those he taught to extort his desires.
These were our sisters....these were the teachings that wierwille used to manipulate them .....
I am sorry, it`d be a lot more fun to go on believing that we were some kind of spiritual hot shots....but unfortunatly we were simply what added the appearance of legitimacy to an otherwise cery evil group of men.....just like leonards class was what gave the appearance of a legitimacy to wierwilles depraved ideas.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
J0nny Ling0
And so Rascal, maybe we can simply agree to disagree? You believe that the whole thing was a "sex and money farm" from the very beginning with secret, hidden, subliminal messages hidden within PFAL and other early teachings that were designed to manipulate and take our money or your booty. I do not. I say "your booty" because you are a female, and most sexual harrassment comes from men, not women.
I believe that the ministry started out as a genuine effort to teach others about God's love and about God's Word, but then, succumbed to the weakness of the flesh, as has happened throughout all of history it seems. I believe that "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely", which I believe was the case with VPW. The power went to his head, and then he began to "lose it" and, the results that we have read about or have experienced (I won't leave that out for I believe in fairness) have occurred. I am trying to be honest here without being sarcastic as some are, by presenting my "take" on the situation. I believe I am qualified to do so:
I spent fifteen years of my life in The Way. I was eighteen when I got involved in 1975, and I simply cannot deny the night when I got on my knees and prayed to God to send a Christian believer to teach me about God's Word, and the very next day, a WOW Ambassador came to work where I worked, and began to tell me all about the book of Ephesians, and about Jesus Christ my lord. I got born again, and I was a changed person from that day on. One may argue that this could have happened with "any respectable church", and this may be true, but I will argue that God chose that person to witness to me and turn me on to the PFAL class. Why would God betray my honest and innocent prayer request and send a devilish cultist to my assistance? I do not think He would, and I do not believe that He did.
And so Rascal, I hope that we can simply agree to disagree on this. Yes, The Way ended up bad. I just don't think it started out that way as you do. You are welcome to express your opinion on this, and I presume that I am welcome to express the opposite opinion. Are we good? I don't like to argue with someone who likes to fish as much as you do :-) And so, I offer you the olive branch of peace, and may you have a wonderful Christmas Day tomorrow, okay?
JL
Edited by Jonny LingoLink to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
I vote for "none of the above".
I say it was indicative of his mindset-it showed what he thought of David's SIN.
It was what he and his sick mind did LATER with other comments and
verses that REALLY did more damage.
ANY document can be twisted if you distort it enough.
You completely missed the point there.
Outside of twi, NOBODY uses that verse as justification.
IN twi, quite a few DID.
Was that in SPITE of what vpw said and did,
or BECAUSE of what he did?
I'll quote vpw himself on this one.
Back in the 1960s, vpw was chatting with
someone and ASKED them to describe what
orgies were like. (He OPENED the subject.)
When they-reluctantly-described it, thankful
to have been DELIVERED from it, vpw
commented.
vpw: "You know that's all available.
God put it in I Corinthians 7:1 when He said
'It is good for a man not to touch a woman.'
If it wasn't available to have sex outside the
marriage, God would have said 'best'
instead of 'good'."
The reply: "I just thank God that He pulled
our souls out of that pit of debauchery."
The mind-frame of a man who would pervert Scripture
and claim I Corinthians 7:1 permits orgies
is the same one who would claim that "TECHNICALLY
all the women in the kingdom belonged to the king."
Later, people exposed to his teachings claimed that
the only harm in guilt is the guilty feeling,
and we can sin incredibly so long as we don't
feel guilty.
Did this have NOTHING to do with the mindset of
their teacher? Did he really NEVER pass along
to ANY of them this concept?
We know he did not teach it to EVERYONE.
We've heard he's been overheard passing similar
things to lcm and others...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
J0nny Ling0
Merry Christmas!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Merry Christmas!
Happy ChristmaHanuKwanzaakah!
Happy Festivus!
Jesus-y Jesusmas!
(That should cover most of the posters.
Oh, happy Winter Solstice.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
I can't see Vic Wierwille secretly plotting to add subliminal messages to PFAL in order to take advantage at some unspecified future date. But I do believe that the statement is a clue to his mindset. As TWI grew Wierwille had the opportunity to do what may have only been a fantasy when it was not more than a storefront operation.
Neither you or I can go back in time or read a dead man's motives, but what I wrote, while only my opinion, fits the known facts and is far from ridiculous.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.