For whatsoever things were written aforetime {before the day of Pentecost} were written for our learning. (strongs #1319) (learning should be translated Doctrine, same greek work as in II Timothy 3:16 "...and is profitable for Doctrine" (strongs #1319)
This is where the house of cards begins to fall.
This teaching: from PFAL chapter 15, is the beginning of how we were ever so subltly lead to believe that the gospels were not written to us, so what did we do?? Pretty much ignored them. -- Lightside
I post that I think the holy spirit is female, and no one even flinches?
I was at least hoping that someone would ask me to clarify, rather than just pretend I never posted. I am ex-way, like all of you, and I still love Christ and the Bible. I would prefer a good accusation of blasphemy anyday. At least I can answer for myself on that one.
So here it goes...
This thread is about the role of the holy spirit, right?
Well...was it not the Spirit of God (not God the father) that "brooded" over creation in Genesis 1:2?
Who "broods" over eggs? The rooster?
Talk about scripture being specific with roles!
In the end of the Book of Revelation, what gender is the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven?
One of Christ's main goals was to restore the bride. To fix she that Adam had broken.
He seemed a bit more concerned about that than sword-fighting.
He dealt with woman's issues like a true prince of peace.
IMO, this blindspot of Christianity (certainly not Christianity's scripture, though) epitomizes what went wrong in TWI. A masculine-only cosmology. Talk about the depth of homo-sex? A male-only club of cosmology. Even all the angels are usually perceived as guys.
VPW was such an ignorant horn-dog, he even got spiritual conception and spiritual birth confused. He confused his own personal moments of bliss with ascending to heaven, not knowing about the pain and transformation only a woman can endure to bring forth life.
What about spiritual life?
Who was made the mother of all living (including Adam)?
Why was she called that?
When things were being made, was Adam made to complete her, or was she made to complete Adam?
I guess the only reason I don't just go away from here after such a snub, is because I am a little confused as to why no one even wants to consider the idea. Is it that dangerous?
Why has the idea of feminine divinity become so anathema?
All through the scripture, the devil is a man of war who seeks to conquer and control and possess, especially her and her children.
Is it that hard to see?
Scripture after scripture addresses the importance of the female role.
The masculine only mind pretty much thinks like a sperm cell. Win win win win...and conquer. Progress for progress's sake. Like ants.
But the feminine mind thinks more like Christ (or rather, Christ thought more like the feminine mind). Healer. Teacher of children. You would give your life to save the children. Would even forgive an abusive husband time after time after time.
Look. The father plants a seed and heez done. The mother is who nurtures the babe, not only through 9 months of gestation, but through til maturity.
Is God's will on earth as it is in heaven, or not?
Jesus used real examples of human biology to express spiritual truths, right?
Faith is like a mustard seed.
Have the faith of God.
God is small, like a mustard seed. Like faith itself. Right?
Big deal. Why not? If He is so powerful, why does he have to be some giant thing?
We are all gods, after all. Made in his image.
God in Christ within us, yada yada.
The primary nature of fatherhood is a seed, like a star.
And the mother is the light of the star - the spirit of the father.
The reflection of man is woman.
Father cannot see himself without her.
The reflection of God is his holy spirit.
The father is simple and pure.
The mother is complex and diverse and spans the universe like all the noble gases that stars feed on. She is huge, like a vast city reflecting the light and sound of God.
And she is the mother of all living, just like air (spirit) feeds the flame (God).
IMO, none of us were "born again" in TWI, according to scriptural standards.
The point a soul leaves the nurturing care of the holy spirit is when he can make his body vanish into thin air, like Jesus and his students did. Beings of light. Fully born and mature, having been born from death (which means your soul really has to die before you are born again - no figure of speech).
That is the point of Christlike maturity, IMO.
Full metamorphosis.
And angels do NOT marry, because they are both genders in harmony.
The ambidextrous mind, like Leonardo Da Vinci.
But we here, are a looooong way from that.
ok. I'm done.
;)-->
btw - good points about the timing and importance of the gospels, Golfie.
And the stuff about surrendering to spirit, rather than operating it.
It reminds me of how a baby is better off when it stops striving against the spirit (mom).
Just find the milk and relax.
No wonder Paul considered himself a nursemaid of the spirit.
You got a whole lot more grit than I do, that's for sure! LOL
I really liked your first post on this thread, too.
It's an awesome realization once you see it, isn't it? It's like the whole rest of the universe is finally accessible. And, OH!, the healing that starts happening naturally!
Your posts weren't lost on me. Many Jewish people believe similarly. They see completeness in Father, Mother, Child, not just here on earth, but spiritually as well.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
Of course it makes sense once I think about it...after all, how many "names of God" are there?
What else do you have up your sleeve that you'd be willing to share along these lines? :)-->
***********
sirguessalot,
I think that many of the women here accept this without much thought because it just makes sense...which is probably why there was no major reaction on first blush.
However the correlation to holy spirit is probably a new perception. Maybe not. Maybe I just ***-U-Me too much out of my own fears... :D-->
"Well...was it not the Spirit of God (not God the father) that "brooded" over creation in Genesis 1:2? Who "broods" over eggs? The rooster?" --sirguessalot
------------------------------------------------
As a matter of fact, the male ring neck dove broods on the egg. I saw this working in the Rutgers-Newark University animal lab. And it reminded me of Gen 1:2 at the time.
One Mothers' Day we had a teaching with Bible verses about God's mother-like characteristics.
It blew my mind...in one verse the Father nursed
His children!
God created both male and female in His image.
There will be neither male or female, no couples still married to each other in the new heaven and Earth. We will be like angles. So for now, the mother/father god talk is a figure of speach. I hope no equal-gender- rights kook gets their nose out of joint over the Bible figures referring the God, The Creator.
For me...when I first stepped outside of modern christianity...I experienced internal controversy around some things that sgl has said here. These things are:
"One of Christ's main goals was to restore the bride. To fix she that Adam had broken. He seemed a bit more concerned about that than sword-fighting."
"Who was made the mother of all living (including Adam)? Why was she called that?
When things were being made, was Adam made to complete her, or was she made to complete Adam?"
"Why has the idea of feminine divinity become so anathema?"
"The point a soul leaves the nurturing care of the holy spirit is when he can make his body vanish into thin air, like Jesus and his students did. Beings of light. Fully born and mature, having been born from death (which means your soul really has to die before you are born again - no figure of speech)."
Ex10: I think you will really like the book. It is also a Bio of Benny Hinn's early life and the persecution he endured by his own family for becoming a Christian. I believe he has the skinny on who the Holy Spirit really is (and it's not just another name for GoD as twi taught). He (The Holy Spirit) has a ministry and He is fulfilling it with those who will LET him HELP them (remember the comforter, counselor, helper, etc.) The thing that kept me from reading the book for so long was past prejudice from another source that we all are familiar with here. I have never been to one of his crusades.
Sirguessalot: I heard you the first time but didn't know what to say except I agree and thanks. A book that you might be interested in reading, possibly, is one I like a lot called Redefining the Role of Women in the Church by Drs. Jim Davis and Donna Johnson. It has some really good stuff about the feminine side being pressed down and under and some interesting light on "no male or female," and women's ministries, etc., but that is another thread.
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
This is just too "coincidental." Just a few minutes ago, I was clicking around on the tv looking for the weather forecast. I came across Binny Hinn and Oral Roberts talking together. They were talking about walking in the spirit in general, the gifts of healing in specific. :)-->
Binny Hinn asked Oral Roberts what advice he had for the person just starting out in ministry, and OR said to read the gospels and Acts to see how Jesus healed and ministered. Because we are to be like him.
+ "The point a soul leaves the nurturing care of the holy spirit is when he can make his body vanish into thin air, like Jesus and his students did. Beings of light. Fully born and mature, having been born from death (which means your soul really has to die before you are born again - no figure of speech)."
in is in( ) because it is referring to the statement of being in the air of Jesus and his students tho. I understand it is using the previous sentence to valiidate that conclusion .
in twi the "students" in these quotes was refeered to as "gift ministrys"
the gifts would be working and the flesh of that person would vanish is that what your saying?
certainly not in a literal sense did they vanish in the air as Jesus actualy did. and keep living today. the gifts or "students" (as the quote calls them) Jesus gave are eternal and will be "alive " forever. even after the person dies.
I am saying that the apostles vanished in the air, just like Jesus did. No bodies left behind. No pain of death of natural causes.
One of the "gifts" of apostleship was to know when you were going to die.
And be able to make your flesh just evaporate.
After a lifetime of discipline, of course.
Even Moses did this. And his body was not found. Same with Buddha. And other OT figures, in and out of the Bible.
These are the mysterious MIW "men in white" that keep popping up. They can become light forms, but not physical forms. The son of man had not learned that one...yet.
Difference is, Jesus was the first to learn how to come back from it. He did not have to be born again in the flesh.
I guess it is a role of the gift of holy spirit.
The ability to escape the wrath that every natural man must face.
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Golfie
Oh, the deception was ever so subtle Romans 15:4
For whatsoever things were written aforetime {before the day of Pentecost} were written for our learning. (strongs #1319) (learning should be translated Doctrine, same greek work as in II Timothy 3:16 "...and is profitable for Doctrine" (strongs #1319)
This is where the house of cards begins to fall.
This teaching: from PFAL chapter 15, is the beginning of how we were ever so subltly lead to believe that the gospels were not written to us, so what did we do?? Pretty much ignored them. -- Lightside
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great post...worth repeating!
How many people in twi do not know that the 4 gospels were written AFTER Pentecost.
I believe the gospels show us Jesus' example how to operate holy spirit, The epistles show us the mind of Christ.
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sirguessalot
What?
I post that I think the holy spirit is female, and no one even flinches?
I was at least hoping that someone would ask me to clarify, rather than just pretend I never posted. I am ex-way, like all of you, and I still love Christ and the Bible. I would prefer a good accusation of blasphemy anyday. At least I can answer for myself on that one.
So here it goes...
This thread is about the role of the holy spirit, right?
Well...was it not the Spirit of God (not God the father) that "brooded" over creation in Genesis 1:2?
Who "broods" over eggs? The rooster?
Talk about scripture being specific with roles!
In the end of the Book of Revelation, what gender is the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven?
One of Christ's main goals was to restore the bride. To fix she that Adam had broken.
He seemed a bit more concerned about that than sword-fighting.
He dealt with woman's issues like a true prince of peace.
IMO, this blindspot of Christianity (certainly not Christianity's scripture, though) epitomizes what went wrong in TWI. A masculine-only cosmology. Talk about the depth of homo-sex? A male-only club of cosmology. Even all the angels are usually perceived as guys.
VPW was such an ignorant horn-dog, he even got spiritual conception and spiritual birth confused. He confused his own personal moments of bliss with ascending to heaven, not knowing about the pain and transformation only a woman can endure to bring forth life.
What about spiritual life?
Who was made the mother of all living (including Adam)?
Why was she called that?
When things were being made, was Adam made to complete her, or was she made to complete Adam?
I guess the only reason I don't just go away from here after such a snub, is because I am a little confused as to why no one even wants to consider the idea. Is it that dangerous?
Why has the idea of feminine divinity become so anathema?
All through the scripture, the devil is a man of war who seeks to conquer and control and possess, especially her and her children.
Is it that hard to see?
Scripture after scripture addresses the importance of the female role.
The masculine only mind pretty much thinks like a sperm cell. Win win win win...and conquer. Progress for progress's sake. Like ants.
But the feminine mind thinks more like Christ (or rather, Christ thought more like the feminine mind). Healer. Teacher of children. You would give your life to save the children. Would even forgive an abusive husband time after time after time.
Look. The father plants a seed and heez done. The mother is who nurtures the babe, not only through 9 months of gestation, but through til maturity.
Is God's will on earth as it is in heaven, or not?
Jesus used real examples of human biology to express spiritual truths, right?
Faith is like a mustard seed.
Have the faith of God.
God is small, like a mustard seed. Like faith itself. Right?
Big deal. Why not? If He is so powerful, why does he have to be some giant thing?
We are all gods, after all. Made in his image.
God in Christ within us, yada yada.
The primary nature of fatherhood is a seed, like a star.
And the mother is the light of the star - the spirit of the father.
The reflection of man is woman.
Father cannot see himself without her.
The reflection of God is his holy spirit.
The father is simple and pure.
The mother is complex and diverse and spans the universe like all the noble gases that stars feed on. She is huge, like a vast city reflecting the light and sound of God.
And she is the mother of all living, just like air (spirit) feeds the flame (God).
IMO, none of us were "born again" in TWI, according to scriptural standards.
The point a soul leaves the nurturing care of the holy spirit is when he can make his body vanish into thin air, like Jesus and his students did. Beings of light. Fully born and mature, having been born from death (which means your soul really has to die before you are born again - no figure of speech).
That is the point of Christlike maturity, IMO.
Full metamorphosis.
And angels do NOT marry, because they are both genders in harmony.
The ambidextrous mind, like Leonardo Da Vinci.
But we here, are a looooong way from that.
ok. I'm done.
btw - good points about the timing and importance of the gospels, Golfie.
And the stuff about surrendering to spirit, rather than operating it.
It reminds me of how a baby is better off when it stops striving against the spirit (mom).
Just find the milk and relax.
No wonder Paul considered himself a nursemaid of the spirit.
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sirguessalot
btw - I hope y'all see that I am not talking about gender of the flesh. There is a difference.
But divine roles.
A pure one...and the diversity surrounding it.
Peace
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CoolWaters
sirguessalot,
I'm just coming online this morning and am just reading this 2nd to last post of yours.
I'm in tears! Finally this topic is opened up so we can talk about it. Finally somebody put the obvious out there.
?????????????
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sirguessalot
Nothing like a little salt on the teeth, huh?
((((CW)))))
Boy oh boy.
I really am letting it fly, aint I?
Good thing I'll probably only regret it for a very short time.
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CoolWaters
{{{{{sirguessalot}}}}}
You got a whole lot more grit than I do, that's for sure! LOL
I really liked your first post on this thread, too.
It's an awesome realization once you see it, isn't it? It's like the whole rest of the universe is finally accessible. And, OH!, the healing that starts happening naturally!
Sigh. I'm still in tears.
?????????????
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sirguessalot
Lets just wait and see what happens when everyone wakes up and reads it.
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Abigail
SirG,
Your posts weren't lost on me. Many Jewish people believe similarly. They see completeness in Father, Mother, Child, not just here on earth, but spiritually as well.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
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CoolWaters
Abigail,
I didn't know that!
Of course it makes sense once I think about it...after all, how many "names of God" are there?
What else do you have up your sleeve that you'd be willing to share along these lines?
:)-->
***********
sirguessalot,
I think that many of the women here accept this without much thought because it just makes sense...which is probably why there was no major reaction on first blush.
However the correlation to holy spirit is probably a new perception. Maybe not. Maybe I just ***-U-Me too much out of my own fears...
:D--> 
?????????????
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ex10
sir guess
:)-->
Of course, the holy spirit, as well as God. even though He is referred to as "the Father" encompasses both genders.
I saw what you were saying in your first post, but didn't realize that you thought it was "contraversial." I don't.
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Golfie
"Well...was it not the Spirit of God (not God the father) that "brooded" over creation in Genesis 1:2? Who "broods" over eggs? The rooster?" --sirguessalot
------------------------------------------------
As a matter of fact, the male ring neck dove broods on the egg. I saw this working in the Rutgers-Newark University animal lab. And it reminded me of Gen 1:2 at the time.
One Mothers' Day we had a teaching with Bible verses about God's mother-like characteristics.
It blew my mind...in one verse the Father nursed
His children!
God created both male and female in His image.
There will be neither male or female, no couples still married to each other in the new heaven and Earth. We will be like angles. So for now, the mother/father god talk is a figure of speach. I hope no equal-gender- rights kook gets their nose out of joint over the Bible figures referring the God, The Creator.
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mj412
God is Spirit.
What does Spirit look like ?
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CoolWaters
For me...when I first stepped outside of modern christianity...I experienced internal controversy around some things that sgl has said here. These things are:
When things were being made, was Adam made to complete her, or was she made to complete Adam?"
?????????????
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waterbuffalo
Ex10: I think you will really like the book. It is also a Bio of Benny Hinn's early life and the persecution he endured by his own family for becoming a Christian. I believe he has the skinny on who the Holy Spirit really is (and it's not just another name for GoD as twi taught). He (The Holy Spirit) has a ministry and He is fulfilling it with those who will LET him HELP them (remember the comforter, counselor, helper, etc.) The thing that kept me from reading the book for so long was past prejudice from another source that we all are familiar with here. I have never been to one of his crusades.
Sirguessalot: I heard you the first time but didn't know what to say except I agree and thanks. A book that you might be interested in reading, possibly, is one I like a lot called Redefining the Role of Women in the Church by Drs. Jim Davis and Donna Johnson. It has some really good stuff about the feminine side being pressed down and under and some interesting light on "no male or female," and women's ministries, etc., but that is another thread.
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
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ex10
This is just too "coincidental." Just a few minutes ago, I was clicking around on the tv looking for the weather forecast. I came across Binny Hinn and Oral Roberts talking together. They were talking about walking in the spirit in general, the gifts of healing in specific.
:)-->
Binny Hinn asked Oral Roberts what advice he had for the person just starting out in ministry, and OR said to read the gospels and Acts to see how Jesus healed and ministered. Because we are to be like him.
Pretty cool.
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mj412
+ "The point a soul leaves the nurturing care of the holy spirit is when he can make his body vanish into thin air, like Jesus and his students did. Beings of light. Fully born and mature, having been born from death (which means your soul really has to die before you are born again - no figure of speech)."
CW
What students of jesus vanished into thin air?
_?????????????_
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CoolWaters
I wasn't quite sure about that, either, mj. But that isn't the point of that statement...I don't think.
?????????????
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mj412
then what is the point of the statement?
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year2027
Hi All
What is spirit but those things that are not seen with natural eyes
Now we are babies and children in truth and light
But when we put on incorruption or immortality in that day we vanished into thin air
Like a baby in the womb of his or her mother we are in the womb of God
But the day of new birth is coming but for now we are seeds that are planted in God
Amd seeds that have took root and grow reaching to get above the dirt
Now if my understanding is not the best Sirguessalot will clear it up with his great love of truth
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CoolWaters
From what I see...
"(which means your soul really has to die before you are born again - no figure of speech)."
?????????????
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mj412
in is in( ) because it is referring to the statement of being in the air of Jesus and his students tho. I understand it is using the previous sentence to valiidate that conclusion .
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sirguessalot
Hi all.
Yeah, I'll try to explain.
I know I was not posting anything new to religions.
Though it may be new to innies and some ex-TWI.
Yes, some male doves may brood.
But that is a feminine role, even for a dove.
Besides, the creator is not a dove, but in the form of humanity. And human men cannot brood over eggs in the womb.
"There will be no male or female" is AFTER the restoration of the unity.
God is a father. The spirit is a mother.
Both are eternal.
We are gods, and we are born of spirit.
Angels do not marry because they already are.
Both sexes.
Dual gender.
We have what is commonly referred to as a left and right side of our mind.
Even though some claim that one part is superior to the other (true half-wits!).
What does spirit look like?
It is the space between.
It is like air.
Thanks for the book suggestion, Waterbuffalo.
What students vanished into thin air?
The apostles, of course.
Just like their master taught them.
What? Did he pick them and teach them they still failed or something?
CW, there was actually two points in the statement.
No figures of speech.
1) the escape of wrath = escape of the pain of physical death. But first...
2) the death of the soul is a literal reality that has to happen for birth. Like a candle being blown out and relit a second later.
Jesus taught about a REAL transformation.
Not an immediate, "undetectable by the senses" metamorphosis.
But once the labor pains begins, it cannot be stopped.
"Meeting him in the air" is interesting.
Air = spirit. Spirit = air. The space between.
Imagine, if all you could see was the "air" in your body.
And the light of the electricity in the air...
But the role of spirit is feminine. Heavenly.
Because the first man is of the earth. Like a divine seed planted in the form of God.
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mj412
in twi the "students" in these quotes was refeered to as "gift ministrys"
the gifts would be working and the flesh of that person would vanish is that what your saying?
certainly not in a literal sense did they vanish in the air as Jesus actualy did. and keep living today. the gifts or "students" (as the quote calls them) Jesus gave are eternal and will be "alive " forever. even after the person dies.
interesting
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sirguessalot
I am saying that the apostles vanished in the air, just like Jesus did. No bodies left behind. No pain of death of natural causes.
One of the "gifts" of apostleship was to know when you were going to die.
And be able to make your flesh just evaporate.
After a lifetime of discipline, of course.
Even Moses did this. And his body was not found. Same with Buddha. And other OT figures, in and out of the Bible.
These are the mysterious MIW "men in white" that keep popping up. They can become light forms, but not physical forms. The son of man had not learned that one...yet.
Difference is, Jesus was the first to learn how to come back from it. He did not have to be born again in the flesh.
I guess it is a role of the gift of holy spirit.
The ability to escape the wrath that every natural man must face.
That ole 4th horsemen of the apocolypse.
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