Ex...I have to wonder if the whole purpose of the bible and Jesus`s teachings weren`t to get us to the point to where we could not only RECIEVE that gift ...but to recognise and utilize it as well....
That guidance that can take us ever so much further than mere scriptural annalysis and study....
It seemed to me that in twi...immersion in biblical study replaced the role of holy spirit as a guidance a teacher.
It`s like we spent all of our time searching the scriptures and and in prayer...and operating biblical principles....all the while expecting them to fullfill the capacity that the holy spirit was intended for....
Great thread ex....am looking forward to examining this.
You know....It wasn`t untill I stopped operating all of those so called principles and habits I aquired in twi trying to be spiritual ....that I was able to finally hear the voics of God again...I believe through holy spirit...
I had to stop studying/retemorizing/witnessing/tithing/...yes even sit....all of the things that I was doing in order to grow spiritually enough...be good enough for God operate in my life...
It was so strange....it was when I got mad enough to tell God to f-**** off because the *principles* didn`t work....that he was able to finally break through all of the crap....
It was like...ok....now that you have laid aside how YOU think I should work....lets start back at square one...
I think when I stopped demanding that God function in the manner that twi ordained...that THAT was when the holy spirit was able to start guiding me.
In my mind it is beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Comforter has been missed entirely in many schools of thought.
It is an odd thing for me these days to even consider packaging "comfort" in a neat little box of rules to be applied blandly to one and all in much the same way MSG is used in food...with that kind of "comfort" many people are going to be allergic and may even die as a result of the use.
The way I understand it The Comforter is the Christ in us
Jesus Christ loving us as we walk in love
Now the gifts of the spirit are the power of that love being overflow to the world from us
Or to put it simple you can sat in your car and be at a state of peace
But until you use the power of the car by turning parts on you do not enjoy its powers
You hear the power of the car radio and the power of the air or heat and so on after turning it on
But the power of Christ in you is Your witness and others witness of its glory and truth
The power of Christ is the God in Christ that is teaching you by word of knowlege
The power of Christ is God in Christ that is guiding you with word of wisdom along life
The power of Christ is God in Christ is that taking care needs you know not about but done by pray of speaking in tongues
The power of Christ is God in Christ that is building you up by tongues with interpretation with love
The power of Christ is God in Christ that is fore telling or forth telling things that will bless your life from God with love
The power of Christ is God in Christ that is giving you knowledge of evil spirits that you may be around a person or thing so you can take care of the evil and feel safe
The power of Christ is God in Christ that is healing those who need healing because of your love to help
The power of Christ is God in Christ is that faith to do what God's word says you can
The power of Christ is God in Christ that is working of miracles which is the sign and wonders that follower you
Will this is how I understand it For to me the Way only got it part right because they try to put the gifts in a box
For like God the gifts have not limits within the guide lines God gave each gift
You see you can SIT once a week or every day or to put it in a car form you can use the power of your car once a week or every day
I hope this helps because I have done by best to put it in words the way I understand it
quote:It was like...ok....now that you have laid aside how YOU think I should work....lets start back at square one...
Exactly Ras...
It seems (in my life at least) we are so wrapped up in fixing ourselves and trying to ''buy'' God by works or whatever that we forget to just talk to Him. It's the times where I've poured my heart out to him in sadness, rage, happiness etc. that I ''hear'' Him.
It's like He tells me...ok, now that you've stopped trying to do it yourself, I'll take it from here. Love ya!
The Holy Spirit is my Comforter and my refuge and He always knows what's best.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
EXACTLY Freak...when I quit trying to do it all myself....
I was so enraged at God...all of the years of submitting to husband...reading the word and praying the first 30 miniutes of every day...tithing...witnessing...obediance to leaders..meetings classes......all of that denial of self in order to stuff myself into twi`s virtuous woman/believer mold...the total absolute devotion to doing all of the right things..dotting all my *i*s and crossing all my *t*s spiritually to keep the adversary from having access to me and those I love....proved to be of no effect...I STILL got my arse kicked...my heart broken...
I didn`t just *tell* God to f--- off...I screamed it AND accompanied it with hand gestures....sigh
I am humbled that he loved me enough to see past the hurt...the rage...the tears....to have the patience to start all over again.
quote:... just wondering what others think about it. Any thoughts anyone?
Ex10, I think TWI's teaching (which of course is in large part J.E. Stiles and B.G. Leonard) of what the Holy Spirit is and means to folks is the best and most useful I've heard. I still speak in tongues after all these years. That's an extreme comfort to me. It's really had an impact on my life.
"Or to put it simple you can sat in your car and be at a state of peace,
But until you use the power of the car by turning parts on you do not enjoy its powers. You hear the power of the car radio and the power of the air or heat and so on after turning it on."
Gag me with a spoon...if that is about the Comforter, Holy Spirit, of Christ in me.
As i read this quote, i realized for the first time how much that twi automobile/battery/horn teaching analogy in PFAL/RHST really sux.
Jesus was able to teach the 1st century believers how to live with holy spirit long before the automobile was invented. Jesus used better and simpler analogies to teach about holy spirit. Studying HIS teachings would be much more beneficial than studying Receiving the holy spirit Today by VPW.
Truth is simple, error is complicated. TWI and extwi people would be better off to re-search the true teachings of Jesus Christ. By the Way, the 4 gospels are NOT "just for our learning". They contain many truths that twi followers have overlooked and ignored because of wrong teaching.
[This message was edited by Golfie on February 12, 2004 at 9:38.]
Wow alot to digest here. It seems to me that lately I've begun to finally understand that it's the spirit that leads us, not us that leads the spirit, if that makes sense.
And it also seems to me that the "power" of the holy spirit lies in our ability to be transformed from the inside out. Not so much in "operating the spirit" whatever the heck that means. I know at times we can see and do things only possible because we have holy spirit, but it seems to me that the major function of the gift is to assure us of the presence of God and Jesus the Son in our lives. And we become "sensitive" to the workings of that spirit, the better our relationship with the Son is. But I guess the point is, it's the will of God that is fulfilled, not our own plans and devices.
Sorry if I'm rambling, just kinda thinking out loud. :)-->
For whatsoever things were written aforetime {before the day of Pentecost} were written for our learning. (strongs #1319) (learning should be translated Doctrine, same greek work as in II Timothy 3:16 "...and is profitable for Doctrine" (strongs #1319)
This is where the house of cards begins to fall.
This teaching: from PFAL chapter 15, is the beginning of how we were ever so subltly lead to believe that the gospels were not written to us, so what did we do?? Pretty much ignored them.
Jesus promised us that the spirit of truth would come and teach us things to come.
Well, the Epistles were first and the gospels were the continuation of that promise to show us how the greatest man that ever lived, manifested an abundant life via operation of the Holy Spirit.
IMHO, the epistles shows us what Jesus believed about the gift of Holy Spirit and the gospels shows us how he, the master and perfector of Faith and Holy Spirit, operated it.
Maybe that is why Hebrews implies that we should look away from all others, including Faiths hall of famers, unto Jesus, the beginner, master, leader, pioneer and perfector of Faith.
How he operated HS is in only one place: the gospels
Which brings up another question for me, Lightside. The Comforter that Jesus sent had to be different from the holy spirit that is spoken of in the Old Testament. Jesus says that it's necessary for him to leave so the Comforter can come. Yeah, I know it's different because we are born of the spirit. But is that the only difference?
I like that you called it The Holy Spirit. I even like it better that the thrust of what you and other have said has more to do with yielding than an act of the will.
I know at times we can see and do things only possible because we have holy spirit, but it seems to me that the major function of the gift is to assure us of the presence of God and Jesus the Son in our lives. And we become "sensitive" to the workings of that spirit, the better our relationship with the Son is. But I guess the point is, it's the will of God that is fulfilled, not our own plans and devices.
Ex10,
It sounds like we have been listening to The (SAME) Holy Spirit lately! LOL! Someone recommended a book to me several years ago and I just blew him off when he suggested it, but last summer I saw it at Barnes & Noble and decided I wanted to read it. So, I went over to the bookstore for 4 nights in a row and read the book from cover to cover and it is the BEST book I have ever read on THE HOLY SPIRIT.
Don't fall out of your seat, but it is Goodmorning Holy Spirit, by Benny Hinn. It is also one of the best books I have, personally, ever read, period.
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
Excellent thread!! I've been wondering all of this too. I sent you a private topic. :)-->
**********************
Waterbuffalo,
My sister told me about that book, but I was so against reading it only because of Benny Hinn authoring it. Then I realized my only thing against him was based on waybrain. I will read it some day soon. I'm sure he has some great things to teach about the holy spirit.
I just watched a video of the lives of Oral Roberts and Benny Hinn, how they were led to ministering healing.
Roberts says he felt the power in his hand. Benny says he feels the power in his whole body, than when the power really turns on, in his hand.
Oral ministered healing much like us Way believers have, via laying on of hands. Oral did not approve of getting slain in the spirit or dancing in the spirit in his tent crusade healing lines. He reproved many for acting foolish and embarrassing other believers.
Benny seems to like to get the audience into "the presence of God via song and than he prays a powerful prayer of deliverence and via word of Knowledge speaks of a sudden healing or people just get in the Lords presence and get healed without Benny touching them.
Many times, in Bennys service, people who are healed, come up to the stage platform to proclaim their healing and than Benny touchs them and they fall to the floor (slain in the spirit) Even Benny says that he feels the power going thru him.
My question is, why does Benny have to zap um? It seems that it would really impress many more gentiles of Christ if people were not getting knocked down and seemingly passed out for a few seconds.
I know VP was against this slain in the spirit stuff and Oral didn't think it necessary.
The Evan, what does B.G Leneord say about this phenominon?
yes another book by CES the divine dposit or somethingI cant remember the title but I have to say it is very close to what twi taught about this subject as most of what CES is.
Leaving the teachings of VPW and TWI for those of Oral Roberts and Benny Hinn reminds me of one of Bilbo's proverbs...escaping goblins only to be caught by wolves.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
18
35
18
28
Popular Days
Feb 12
40
Feb 11
27
Feb 16
25
Feb 21
15
Top Posters In This Topic
sirguessalot 18 posts
ex10 35 posts
CoolWaters 18 posts
year2027 28 posts
Popular Days
Feb 12 2004
40 posts
Feb 11 2004
27 posts
Feb 16 2004
25 posts
Feb 21 2004
15 posts
rascal
Ex...I have to wonder if the whole purpose of the bible and Jesus`s teachings weren`t to get us to the point to where we could not only RECIEVE that gift ...but to recognise and utilize it as well....
That guidance that can take us ever so much further than mere scriptural annalysis and study....
It seemed to me that in twi...immersion in biblical study replaced the role of holy spirit as a guidance a teacher.
It`s like we spent all of our time searching the scriptures and and in prayer...and operating biblical principles....all the while expecting them to fullfill the capacity that the holy spirit was intended for....
Great thread ex....am looking forward to examining this.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
You know....It wasn`t untill I stopped operating all of those so called principles and habits I aquired in twi trying to be spiritual ....that I was able to finally hear the voics of God again...I believe through holy spirit...
I had to stop studying/retemorizing/witnessing/tithing/...yes even sit....all of the things that I was doing in order to grow spiritually enough...be good enough for God operate in my life...
It was so strange....it was when I got mad enough to tell God to f-**** off because the *principles* didn`t work....that he was able to finally break through all of the crap....
It was like...ok....now that you have laid aside how YOU think I should work....lets start back at square one...
I think when I stopped demanding that God function in the manner that twi ordained...that THAT was when the holy spirit was able to start guiding me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CoolWaters
In my mind it is beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Comforter has been missed entirely in many schools of thought.
It is an odd thing for me these days to even consider packaging "comfort" in a neat little box of rules to be applied blandly to one and all in much the same way MSG is used in food...with that kind of "comfort" many people are going to be allergic and may even die as a result of the use.
?????????????
Link to comment
Share on other sites
year2027
Hi Ex10
The way I understand it The Comforter is the Christ in us
Jesus Christ loving us as we walk in love
Now the gifts of the spirit are the power of that love being overflow to the world from us
Or to put it simple you can sat in your car and be at a state of peace
But until you use the power of the car by turning parts on you do not enjoy its powers
You hear the power of the car radio and the power of the air or heat and so on after turning it on
But the power of Christ in you is Your witness and others witness of its glory and truth
The power of Christ is the God in Christ that is teaching you by word of knowlege
The power of Christ is God in Christ that is guiding you with word of wisdom along life
The power of Christ is God in Christ is that taking care needs you know not about but done by pray of speaking in tongues
The power of Christ is God in Christ that is building you up by tongues with interpretation with love
The power of Christ is God in Christ that is fore telling or forth telling things that will bless your life from God with love
The power of Christ is God in Christ that is giving you knowledge of evil spirits that you may be around a person or thing so you can take care of the evil and feel safe
The power of Christ is God in Christ that is healing those who need healing because of your love to help
The power of Christ is God in Christ is that faith to do what God's word says you can
The power of Christ is God in Christ that is working of miracles which is the sign and wonders that follower you
Will this is how I understand it For to me the Way only got it part right because they try to put the gifts in a box
For like God the gifts have not limits within the guide lines God gave each gift
You see you can SIT once a week or every day or to put it in a car form you can use the power of your car once a week or every day
I hope this helps because I have done by best to put it in words the way I understand it
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jezusfreaky
Exactly Ras...
It seems (in my life at least) we are so wrapped up in fixing ourselves and trying to ''buy'' God by works or whatever that we forget to just talk to Him. It's the times where I've poured my heart out to him in sadness, rage, happiness etc. that I ''hear'' Him.
It's like He tells me...ok, now that you've stopped trying to do it yourself, I'll take it from here. Love ya!
The Holy Spirit is my Comforter and my refuge and He always knows what's best.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
-Bruce Springsteen
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
EXACTLY Freak...when I quit trying to do it all myself....
I was so enraged at God...all of the years of submitting to husband...reading the word and praying the first 30 miniutes of every day...tithing...witnessing...obediance to leaders..meetings classes......all of that denial of self in order to stuff myself into twi`s virtuous woman/believer mold...the total absolute devotion to doing all of the right things..dotting all my *i*s and crossing all my *t*s spiritually to keep the adversary from having access to me and those I love....proved to be of no effect...I STILL got my arse kicked...my heart broken...
I didn`t just *tell* God to f--- off...I screamed it AND accompanied it with hand gestures....sigh
I am humbled that he loved me enough to see past the hurt...the rage...the tears....to have the patience to start all over again.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jezusfreaky
Yeppers Ras...
So grateful He loves me despite all my warts and shortcomings...He's my Daddy and I love Him so. Glad you're my Sis too!
;)--> Love ya!
-Coll
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
Good topic.
Sumtimes ya just gotta ask yerself...
Ok, Jesus promised a birth of understanding.
And he promised that a comforter would come after this birth.
So, when we are born, whose arms does the midwife deliver us into?
To guide us. To teach us. To nurture us.
About love? About life?
So, what is the nature of this comforter?
What is this logos (form) of wisdom?
What does Proverbs say about its form?
Does not the holy spirit descend like a dove?
Like a new cloak, once the old bloody one is no longer needed?
Form and function go hand in hand, it seems.
And whom does the dragon always seek to remove from their place in the heavens? Among the moons, suns, and stars?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
dittoes freaky...
Cool waters...God in a box..EXACTLY! I so get it...Thats what starting back at square one meant...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Ex10, I think TWI's teaching (which of course is in large part J.E. Stiles and B.G. Leonard) of what the Holy Spirit is and means to folks is the best and most useful I've heard. I still speak in tongues after all these years. That's an extreme comfort to me. It's really had an impact on my life.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Golfie
Good topic...i think it is posted in the correct forum.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Or to put it simple you can sat in your car and be at a state of peace,
But until you use the power of the car by turning parts on you do not enjoy its powers. You hear the power of the car radio and the power of the air or heat and so on after turning it on."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gag me with a spoon...if that is about the Comforter, Holy Spirit, of Christ in me.
As i read this quote, i realized for the first time how much that twi automobile/battery/horn teaching analogy in PFAL/RHST really sux.
Jesus was able to teach the 1st century believers how to live with holy spirit long before the automobile was invented. Jesus used better and simpler analogies to teach about holy spirit. Studying HIS teachings would be much more beneficial than studying Receiving the holy spirit Today by VPW.
Truth is simple, error is complicated. TWI and extwi people would be better off to re-search the true teachings of Jesus Christ. By the Way, the 4 gospels are NOT "just for our learning". They contain many truths that twi followers have overlooked and ignored because of wrong teaching.
[This message was edited by Golfie on February 12, 2004 at 9:38.]
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ex10
Wow alot to digest here. It seems to me that lately I've begun to finally understand that it's the spirit that leads us, not us that leads the spirit, if that makes sense.
And it also seems to me that the "power" of the holy spirit lies in our ability to be transformed from the inside out. Not so much in "operating the spirit" whatever the heck that means. I know at times we can see and do things only possible because we have holy spirit, but it seems to me that the major function of the gift is to assure us of the presence of God and Jesus the Son in our lives. And we become "sensitive" to the workings of that spirit, the better our relationship with the Son is. But I guess the point is, it's the will of God that is fulfilled, not our own plans and devices.
Sorry if I'm rambling, just kinda thinking out loud.
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lightside
Romans 15:4
For whatsoever things were written aforetime {before the day of Pentecost} were written for our learning. (strongs #1319) (learning should be translated Doctrine, same greek work as in II Timothy 3:16 "...and is profitable for Doctrine" (strongs #1319)
This is where the house of cards begins to fall.
This teaching: from PFAL chapter 15, is the beginning of how we were ever so subltly lead to believe that the gospels were not written to us, so what did we do?? Pretty much ignored them.
Jesus promised us that the spirit of truth would come and teach us things to come.
Well, the Epistles were first and the gospels were the continuation of that promise to show us how the greatest man that ever lived, manifested an abundant life via operation of the Holy Spirit.
IMHO, the epistles shows us what Jesus believed about the gift of Holy Spirit and the gospels shows us how he, the master and perfector of Faith and Holy Spirit, operated it.
Maybe that is why Hebrews implies that we should look away from all others, including Faiths hall of famers, unto Jesus, the beginner, master, leader, pioneer and perfector of Faith.
How he operated HS is in only one place: the gospels
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ex10
Which brings up another question for me, Lightside. The Comforter that Jesus sent had to be different from the holy spirit that is spoken of in the Old Testament. Jesus says that it's necessary for him to leave so the Comforter can come. Yeah, I know it's different because we are born of the spirit. But is that the only difference?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheEvan
I like that you called it The Holy Spirit. I even like it better that the thrust of what you and other have said has more to do with yielding than an act of the will.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ex10
Yeah, Evan, seems like yielding to the holy spirit is inextricably linked to surrendering to the Lordship of Jesus in our lives.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waterbuffalo
Ex10,
It sounds like we have been listening to The (SAME) Holy Spirit lately! LOL! Someone recommended a book to me several years ago and I just blew him off when he suggested it, but last summer I saw it at Barnes & Noble and decided I wanted to read it. So, I went over to the bookstore for 4 nights in a row and read the book from cover to cover and it is the BEST book I have ever read on THE HOLY SPIRIT.
Don't fall out of your seat, but it is Goodmorning Holy Spirit, by Benny Hinn. It is also one of the best books I have, personally, ever read, period.
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nottawayfer
Ex10,
Excellent thread!! I've been wondering all of this too. I sent you a private topic.
:)-->
**********************
Waterbuffalo,
My sister told me about that book, but I was so against reading it only because of Benny Hinn authoring it. Then I realized my only thing against him was based on waybrain. I will read it some day soon. I'm sure he has some great things to teach about the holy spirit.
Laughter is a tranquilizer with no side effects.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ex10
WB
I'll have to check it out. All I know about Benny Hinn is he has a real bad hair doo, and he's from Bethlehem, which I think is cool.
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lightside
I just watched a video of the lives of Oral Roberts and Benny Hinn, how they were led to ministering healing.
Roberts says he felt the power in his hand. Benny says he feels the power in his whole body, than when the power really turns on, in his hand.
Oral ministered healing much like us Way believers have, via laying on of hands. Oral did not approve of getting slain in the spirit or dancing in the spirit in his tent crusade healing lines. He reproved many for acting foolish and embarrassing other believers.
Benny seems to like to get the audience into "the presence of God via song and than he prays a powerful prayer of deliverence and via word of Knowledge speaks of a sudden healing or people just get in the Lords presence and get healed without Benny touching them.
Many times, in Bennys service, people who are healed, come up to the stage platform to proclaim their healing and than Benny touchs them and they fall to the floor (slain in the spirit) Even Benny says that he feels the power going thru him.
My question is, why does Benny have to zap um? It seems that it would really impress many more gentiles of Christ if people were not getting knocked down and seemingly passed out for a few seconds.
I know VP was against this slain in the spirit stuff and Oral didn't think it necessary.
The Evan, what does B.G Leneord say about this phenominon?
Thanks for an answer.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mj412
Ex10th
you have metioned you fellowship in some manner with CES, they wrote a book called ONE God and ONE Lord that covers this area of study .
their is a link to their site on the thingy above the threads.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ex10
mj
I read the book a while back, and I don't recall that there is much about the holy spirit in it. But I'll check it out.
You did remind me though, that CES produced a book, what about 10 years ago maybe, on the gift of holy spirit. I'll dig that one out, too.
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mj412
yes another book by CES the divine dposit or somethingI cant remember the title but I have to say it is very close to what twi taught about this subject as most of what CES is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
D.A.Reed
Greetings!
Leaving the teachings of VPW and TWI for those of Oral Roberts and Benny Hinn reminds me of one of Bilbo's proverbs...escaping goblins only to be caught by wolves.
Grace & peace,
- David
Colossians 1:13-14
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.