Well, I don't share the optimism of the other posters, I guess.
Currently we already have a draft of sorts. They call it "stop loss" or somesuch. Basically it means that they'll hold the current guardsmen and enlistees as long after their hitch runs out as they deem necessary.
Recruiting numbers are down, our forces are already stretched way too thin, and God only knows where Dubya and co. are going to invade next. The soldiers have to come from somewhere.
the way I see it playing out is that the draft won't be instituted until after the next terrorist attack. When that happens (and we all know it's just a matter of "when" not "if", don't we? I'm sure Dubya and the boys do.) it'll be a piece of cake to slide that through congress and past the public. You don't want to be unpatriotic do you?
I have a friend in Atlanta who had fulfilled his time in the service and his time as a reservist. He received a letter telling him they reinstated him into the reserves. He now has to go back to doing the weekend warrior stuff. He is basically being put into boot camp. Getting him ready for when they need him. Thankfully since his original tour he has gotten his doctorate and now has been accepted into the medical corps. So now when he is called to duty his tour will be shorter and safer.
Another example of the "back-door draft"? Well his wife thinks so and he isn't exactly happy about it.
Hmm, talk to the recruiters and they are signing new recruits at full quota levels. Turning away the excess. When we are in need of more recruits, we generally lower the standards. For example I was enlisted with 'flat-feet' during the end phases of Vietnam. But by 1980 flat-feet were again a dis-qualifier. During times like this the MEPS centers are very picky in who they want.
Congress limits how big the military can be. 'Stop-loss' measures are a last-minute type of fix while it is argued in congress to allow the military to swell it's ranks again. Entirely different people, at different levels of the chop-chain, with entirely different agendas.
Besides I dont see the problem with running a draft. As I have stated previously, I am in favour of a draft. Remember having a draft does not mean that you are taking in any more recruits. A draft by birth-date can bring in everyone who has born on 1 january for example. That is still only 0.27% of the 18-35 population [ one person out of every 365 ]. Those getting a notice appear will still be allowed to present any defferment they might have. So anyone attending college, or working in industry, or any doctor, etc; is automatically protected. Then they are examined medically to screen out anyone with any pre-existing medical conditions. The sick, lame, crazy, students and professionals are exempted.
Since this next draft will include females, and since females are a greater part of the population, a majority of the draftees will be female! Cool. You have to love Equal-Opportunity.
I was very lucky to have slipped by when I retired in Mar'01, by June retirements were being halted. Though I am still ready to be called-up if the active-duty forces need another body. I dont see the 'problem' with serving.
"Those getting a notice appear will still be allowed to present any defferment they might have. So anyone attending college, or working in industry, or any doctor, etc; is automatically protected. Then they are examined medically to screen out anyone with any pre-existing medical conditions. The sick, lame, crazy, students and professionals are exempted."
That 1-S student deferrment ended in 1971.
I remember because that was the year I became eligible for an all-expense paid trip to southeast Asia, courtesy of my Uncle Sam.
The rule then was that if your number came up, you could finish the semester before you had to report but that was all. The guy across the hall from me in my dorm got his notice and was at Fort Jackson at the end of the semester.
The "backdoor draft" that is already occurring is ridiculous, as I just read a story of a 50-something year old Vietnam vet who is being reinstated. There are lots of others such as lindy's friends who are technically being drafted as well. Usually it's based on skills rather than a generic draft and it's limited to veterans (at least for now.)
Also, the paperwork surrounding bringing back the draft that is being worked on now specifically talks about a skills draft. They're looking to possibly draft medical people and other areas of specialty that are running low in the military. Another point is that they're not just looking to draft people into the military, but the idea is a general government job-placement draft. They want to be able to practically enslave people and force them to work at crappy government jobs.
Of course, it's definitely possible that the drafting of doctors and other specialists would be something that is preceeding a bigger "cannon fodder" type of draft, which is when you should be afraid for your sons. Right now they're just making plans for the draft and setting the draft boards back up. Most of the documentation I've found about the draft really dates back to 2003, and they haven't taken a lot of additional steps to prepare to induce non-veterans yet. However, if there is another big terrorist attack, or if we end up in another war, there's no question that there will be a draft.
I guess the bottom line is that yes they are preparing for a draft, but not in a way that means they are necessarily going to do it. I think Galen has been given incorrect information about recruitment levels, but even ignoring that and looking at reenlistments, the military is using this back door draft and threatening soldiers that if they don't reenlist they will end up in Iraq for a longer period of time than if they reinlisted. It's a shame that the leaders of our military don't give our soldiers the proper training or equipment, then turn around and place them in harm's way without a good reason, and now they use coercion to force them to stay in danger. Nevermind that there is no real leadership overseeing things over there which allows crap like Abu Ghraib to happen.
and a PS here -- the two democrats that introduced the bill, voted against it. -->
Where was their committment, if they were so right?? -->
You are incorrect about their reason for introducing it. The draft boards had been building up since last year and hiring new people, there have been a lot of plans being made for the draft, so they simply wanted to call the Bush administration on it and force them to publicly make a stand one way or another on the draft, which they successfully did. I don't think it really matters though, because if a draft is made, they will either call it "homeland service" or something so that it isn't specifically called a draft, or people will forgive Bush for being a liar and go back to eating their Freedom fries. The Bush administration has used both techniques fairly regularly when they lie about things.
"The "backdoor draft" that is already occurring is ridiculous, as I just read a story of a 50-something year old Vietnam vet who is being reinstated. There are lots of others such as lindy's friends who are technically being drafted as well. Usually it's based on skills rather than a generic draft and it's limited to veterans (at least for now.)"
Was this 50-yr 'vet', or a servicemember in the reserves? or a retiree still receiving paychecks?
I would imagine that in some method he was still on recall [thus still a servicemember]. I seriously doubt if he was simply a vet who had gotten out in 1976, with no further obligation and was called back in in 2004. He would not have been under any form of contract obligating him to go.
If he went active in 1976 [making him a Vietnam-Era Vet], he could still be on active duty had he cleared the rank of E-9. As an E-9 can stay in for as long as 30 years, without reaching his High-Year-tenure.
If he staying active for 20 years, and retired in 1996, he would still be on retainer, until he turns 65.
Obviously depending on his final Pay-grade he could have stayed active longer.
Or on the other hand, what if he was a part-timer. He did three, four, or six years active starting in 1975 and he went into the reserves after that [for the additional income]. He would be in the reserves until he accumulates the needed 'points' for retirement. Depending on how much 'training' he does, his reserve-time could easily stretch out until he turns 65. I have seen reservists doing their 2-weeks summer vacation, who had white hair and were terribly elderly.
Even a reservist-retiree can be called back for further service. A 'reservist-retiree' is a part-timers who has completed accumulating enough points to retire. They dont actually get any more pay-checks, and they lose most benefits until they turn 65. But they carry a blue-ID card.
On a completely different idea, the military does on occasion 'ask' a veteren [with no obligation of service] to come back 'in' to explain and over-see bringing some system out of moth-ball status. Old battle-ships, when we no longer have operating manuals or design specs, will require that we 'recruit' old guys from WWII. They are used to teach new crews and their knowledge is valuable.
". . . . They're looking to possibly draft medical people and other areas of specialty that are running low in the military."
We have done this one for decades. Any medical school has recruiters stationed there, to recruit medical students. Any student whose GPA drops and is in danger of losing his scholarships, can sign-up. The military will put him on a paycheck and cover tuition+, this obligates the doc to serve 6 years after he graduates medical school. On the other hand, no recidency, no internship is required. While the civilian counter-part is doing his residency, the military doc is an O-1 or O-2 running a division of medics. That is why we in the military have the 'best' medical care in the world. As our doctors can 'practice' without fear of mal-practice suits, they get really good pay and a 20-year retirement. Their offices are usually very well stocked and they get to play with very new and cutting-edge equipment [sometimes]. They dont have to deal with insurance companys, or billing, or even the cost of meds. They hold fairly high-ranking pay-grades and they routinely command hundreds of men.
". . . They want to be able to practically enslave people and force them to work at crappy government jobs."
Hmm, government jobs are enslaving and 'crappy'?
Granted I have not heard anything to imply that such was happening. On the other hand, government jobs are choice. They have got the best unions, the best vacation time, sick leave, maternity leave, mental-health leave, solid guaranteed pension plans and the 'Thrift savings plan'.
My wife works as a grocery store clerk, on Subase. She is a federal employee. She can transfer to any posting anywhere in the world, so long as she fulfills the minimum requirements for such job. Here in this area minimum wage is $7.05-ish. She makes $12, when she stocks shelves she makes more. She is working on her 20-year pension. Each week we look over the other available federal jobs, that she might qualify for. Forest Ranger [they needed a teacher to operate a historic artist's home that was made into a federal park], accountants, security guards, vehicle drivers, etc.
"I think Galen has been given incorrect information about recruitment levels,"
I have spoken with recruiters, recently as our eldest son went into the Army. After trying the Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard. They were full, or not willing to lower their entrance standards enough to allow him in. [He had a minor heart mummer as a child, which he out-grew? and as a teenager his physicals showed no signs of any further issues].
The Air Force Recruiters told me that they fill their annual quota by February each year. None of them [in conversation] appeared to be under quota, or even near close to hurting.
"It's a shame that the leaders of our military don't give our soldiers the proper training or equipment"
I might agree with this statement, sometimes. On the other hand, when this does happen it gets high-level attention from congress. [brought on because of the media attention it gets].
". . . then turn around and place them in harm's way without a good reason"
This is what the paycheck is for. Perhaps you did not know. The military's job is to stand in the way of danger. I dont recall any thing in any oath that I have sworn, about the 'reason'ing for each duty.
"It is not my job to reason why, it is my job to do or die"
"Nevermind that there is no real leadership overseeing things over there which allows crap like Abu Ghraib to happen."
"My neighbor is a 35 y/o desert storm vet and he can't re-enlist. He is going to Iraq on a contract for other purposes."
There exist really good jobs for vets, as contractors working in Theater.
Is he still on active-duty?
Is he approaching his projected retirement date?
Servicemembers do on occasion find themselves un-able to re-enlist due to poor performance evaluations.
Sometimes it is due to weight-gain [body-fat measurements become very hard to fight as one gets older].
"My brother is a 44 y/o marine and can't re-enlist."
As an active-duty servicemember, I presume that is he reaching his 'High-Year-Tenure' point. E-5s are allowed to stay on active until they reach 15 years. E-6s are allowed to stay active until they reach 20 years. E-7s ... 24 years, E-8s ..., E-9s ... 30 years.
I was forced to retire at my 20-year point. Can you guess my pay-grade?
:-)
"Is there some protocol to who can/can't/will/won't?"
There are many variables. But it is all done by following written policy and regulations, to make it 'fair, non-sexist, non-discriminitory'.
In Israel, all males serve 3 years, and all females serve 2 years WITHOUT PAY.
They are given enought money for stuff, but they do not get a pay check. Their room and board is take care of etc....
While in Israel in Oct, our tour group was having a picnic in The Golan Heights and 200 IDF young soldiers came there also for their lunch. They were eating Kosher MRE's and we were eating fresh stuff so we shared, and they desended upon the food!
We took pictures. (I will be posting those on the "I went to Israel" thread).
Most of them were Russian Jewish Immigrants.
They came to Israel to serve their county,leaving their families behind in Russia, untill they can Alliah, (return to Israel).
These kids truly loved their country.
After the 2-3 year stint is up, they can continue, WITH PAY for a career.
"In Israel, all males serve 3 years, and all females serve 2 years WITHOUT PAY."
With the single exception being for religous beleifs .
"They are given enought money for stuff, but they do not get a pay check. Their room and board is take care of etc...."
Not nearly as well taken care of as are our servicemembers. But again they are far more commited to their cause.
"While in Israel in Oct, our tour group was having a picnic in The Golan Heights and 200 IDF young soldiers came there also for their lunch. They were eating Kosher MRE's and we were eating fresh stuff so we shared, and they desended upon the food!"
I would imagine that was a great experience. I really enjoyed my trip there with CES in 2000.
I really liked how we kept seeing platoons at so many sites, sitting and being taught their ancient history. It seemed to me that each Israeli soldier would make knowledgible tour-guides when they have completed their conscription.
"We took pictures. (I will be posting those on the "I went to Israel" thread)."
I look forward to seeing them.
"These kids truly loved their country."
Oh yes.
"After the 2-3 year stint is up, they can continue, WITH PAY for a career."
My understanding [which is formed from observations and conversation] from drinking with British, French and Italian sailors is that in Europe, conscription runs all the time at some low level bringing into the military such as they need. Those conscripts are limited to equivilant E-1 to E-3 pay-grades. Upon completing their conscription service they can re-up, get training and advancement to E-4.
Well, front page headline in the Seattle P-I today "Recruiters feel the pressure".
I guess there's going to be $12 million additional added to recruitment budget and 1,000 additional recruiters are going to be manning the offices around the country, to shore up the sagging recruitment numbers.
If that doesn't get the roles filled, whadaya think they'll do next, hmmm?
Besides I dont see the problem with running a draft. As I have stated previously, I am in favour of a draft. Remember having a draft does not mean that you are taking in any more recruits. A draft by birth-date can bring in everyone who has born on 1 january for example. That is still only 0.27% of the 18-35 population [ one person out of every 365 ]. Those getting a notice appear will still be allowed to present any defferment they might have. So anyone attending college, or working in industry, or any doctor, etc; is automatically protected. Then they are examined medically to screen out anyone with any pre-existing medical conditions. The sick, lame, crazy, students and professionals are exempted.
well well galen
quote: That is still only 0.27% of the 18-35 population [ one person out of every 365 ].
how many of them will die!!!??? got any stats on that man?
that is such horse ****~~~ war is war no matter who is exempted or drafted or vacation pay and college, conscript is forced , and evident before your eyes... all are involved... there is no exemption!
quote: The sick, lame, crazy, students and professionals are exempted.
""That is still only 0.27% of the 18-35 population [ one person out of every 365 ].""
"how many of them will die!!!??? got any stats on that man?_"
Sure significantly less than if the same number of people began a career driving trucks on American highways.
"war is war no matter who is exempted or drafted or vacation pay and college, conscript is forced , and evident before your eyes... all are involved... there is no exemption!"
I dont understand.
""The sick, lame, crazy, students and professionals are exempted.""
"so, where does that qualify you?"
I am a servicemember. No need to get any exemption here. Thank you for your concern.
Though apparantly a law changed [from when my brothers were drafted] and college students are apparantly no longer exempted. My bad.
"war is war no matter who is exempted or drafted or vacation pay and college, conscript is forced , and evident before your eyes... all are involved... there is no exemption!"
I dont understand.
Galen,
Thank you for your service for freedom.
There are no exemptions even if the best or worst are sent to war. All are involved. I am not just hanging around my home oh hum, when i know our elite and weekend warriors are dying. If one is joining the military, that one is not joining a college education or retirement if ya make it alive. Sorry about the truckers, but they drive on a freeway. Surely you know that Galen.
I still have my draft card from 1971. Selective Service I thinks it was called.
Thank you Galen for your service for freedom. I do mean that with all mine heart.
Recommended Posts
ex70sHouston
This was a campain tactic by democrats to make Bush look bad. Congress even had a vote a month before the election that said no draft.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steve!
And the draft bill was being sponsored be dimmiecrats.
If Bush had wanted a draft, he could have gotten one passed in his first term.
It ain't gonna happen.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Not to worry Dovey the only Draft George will be starting is some of this here draft....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
George Aar
Well, I don't share the optimism of the other posters, I guess.
Currently we already have a draft of sorts. They call it "stop loss" or somesuch. Basically it means that they'll hold the current guardsmen and enlistees as long after their hitch runs out as they deem necessary.
Recruiting numbers are down, our forces are already stretched way too thin, and God only knows where Dubya and co. are going to invade next. The soldiers have to come from somewhere.
You do the math.
For another opinion you might want to read this:
http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews....8.5473952738491
Link to comment
Share on other sites
George Aar
I should add,
the way I see it playing out is that the draft won't be instituted until after the next terrorist attack. When that happens (and we all know it's just a matter of "when" not "if", don't we? I'm sure Dubya and the boys do.) it'll be a piece of cake to slide that through congress and past the public. You don't want to be unpatriotic do you?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
lindyhopper
I have a friend in Atlanta who had fulfilled his time in the service and his time as a reservist. He received a letter telling him they reinstated him into the reserves. He now has to go back to doing the weekend warrior stuff. He is basically being put into boot camp. Getting him ready for when they need him. Thankfully since his original tour he has gotten his doctorate and now has been accepted into the medical corps. So now when he is called to duty his tour will be shorter and safer.
Another example of the "back-door draft"? Well his wife thinks so and he isn't exactly happy about it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
Hmm, talk to the recruiters and they are signing new recruits at full quota levels. Turning away the excess. When we are in need of more recruits, we generally lower the standards. For example I was enlisted with 'flat-feet' during the end phases of Vietnam. But by 1980 flat-feet were again a dis-qualifier. During times like this the MEPS centers are very picky in who they want.
Congress limits how big the military can be. 'Stop-loss' measures are a last-minute type of fix while it is argued in congress to allow the military to swell it's ranks again. Entirely different people, at different levels of the chop-chain, with entirely different agendas.
Besides I dont see the problem with running a draft. As I have stated previously, I am in favour of a draft. Remember having a draft does not mean that you are taking in any more recruits. A draft by birth-date can bring in everyone who has born on 1 january for example. That is still only 0.27% of the 18-35 population [ one person out of every 365 ]. Those getting a notice appear will still be allowed to present any defferment they might have. So anyone attending college, or working in industry, or any doctor, etc; is automatically protected. Then they are examined medically to screen out anyone with any pre-existing medical conditions. The sick, lame, crazy, students and professionals are exempted.
Since this next draft will include females, and since females are a greater part of the population, a majority of the draftees will be female! Cool. You have to love Equal-Opportunity.
I was very lucky to have slipped by when I retired in Mar'01, by June retirements were being halted. Though I am still ready to be called-up if the active-duty forces need another body. I dont see the 'problem' with serving.
.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Pirate1974
"Those getting a notice appear will still be allowed to present any defferment they might have. So anyone attending college, or working in industry, or any doctor, etc; is automatically protected. Then they are examined medically to screen out anyone with any pre-existing medical conditions. The sick, lame, crazy, students and professionals are exempted."
That 1-S student deferrment ended in 1971.
I remember because that was the year I became eligible for an all-expense paid trip to southeast Asia, courtesy of my Uncle Sam.
The rule then was that if your number came up, you could finish the semester before you had to report but that was all. The guy across the hall from me in my dorm got his notice and was at Fort Jackson at the end of the semester.
I don't believe that rule has ever been changed.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
herbiejuan
I don't see any real reason to reinstate the draft, even with another terrorist attack
because
there would be so many redblooded american kids voluntarily signing up to whoop a little terrorist tail, there would be little need for one.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mister P-Mosh
The "backdoor draft" that is already occurring is ridiculous, as I just read a story of a 50-something year old Vietnam vet who is being reinstated. There are lots of others such as lindy's friends who are technically being drafted as well. Usually it's based on skills rather than a generic draft and it's limited to veterans (at least for now.)
Also, the paperwork surrounding bringing back the draft that is being worked on now specifically talks about a skills draft. They're looking to possibly draft medical people and other areas of specialty that are running low in the military. Another point is that they're not just looking to draft people into the military, but the idea is a general government job-placement draft. They want to be able to practically enslave people and force them to work at crappy government jobs.
Of course, it's definitely possible that the drafting of doctors and other specialists would be something that is preceeding a bigger "cannon fodder" type of draft, which is when you should be afraid for your sons. Right now they're just making plans for the draft and setting the draft boards back up. Most of the documentation I've found about the draft really dates back to 2003, and they haven't taken a lot of additional steps to prepare to induce non-veterans yet. However, if there is another big terrorist attack, or if we end up in another war, there's no question that there will be a draft.
I guess the bottom line is that yes they are preparing for a draft, but not in a way that means they are necessarily going to do it. I think Galen has been given incorrect information about recruitment levels, but even ignoring that and looking at reenlistments, the military is using this back door draft and threatening soldiers that if they don't reenlist they will end up in Iraq for a longer period of time than if they reinlisted. It's a shame that the leaders of our military don't give our soldiers the proper training or equipment, then turn around and place them in harm's way without a good reason, and now they use coercion to force them to stay in danger. Nevermind that there is no real leadership overseeing things over there which allows crap like Abu Ghraib to happen.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Wyteduv -- the "draft question" was never raised by either Bush, or Republicans.
It was however, introduced by the Democrats, before the election, to discredit Bush.
Regardless of the "back door draft" mentioned here,
the intial idea that you are questioning, can be found HERE.
The light shines, for those who have sight to see it.
:)-->
and a PS here -- the two democrats that introduced the bill, voted against it.
-->
Where was their committment, if they were so right??
-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mister P-Mosh
You are incorrect about their reason for introducing it. The draft boards had been building up since last year and hiring new people, there have been a lot of plans being made for the draft, so they simply wanted to call the Bush administration on it and force them to publicly make a stand one way or another on the draft, which they successfully did. I don't think it really matters though, because if a draft is made, they will either call it "homeland service" or something so that it isn't specifically called a draft, or people will forgive Bush for being a liar and go back to eating their Freedom fries. The Bush administration has used both techniques fairly regularly when they lie about things.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
P-Mosh:
"The "backdoor draft" that is already occurring is ridiculous, as I just read a story of a 50-something year old Vietnam vet who is being reinstated. There are lots of others such as lindy's friends who are technically being drafted as well. Usually it's based on skills rather than a generic draft and it's limited to veterans (at least for now.)"
Was this 50-yr 'vet', or a servicemember in the reserves? or a retiree still receiving paychecks?
I would imagine that in some method he was still on recall [thus still a servicemember]. I seriously doubt if he was simply a vet who had gotten out in 1976, with no further obligation and was called back in in 2004. He would not have been under any form of contract obligating him to go.
If he went active in 1976 [making him a Vietnam-Era Vet], he could still be on active duty had he cleared the rank of E-9. As an E-9 can stay in for as long as 30 years, without reaching his High-Year-tenure.
If he staying active for 20 years, and retired in 1996, he would still be on retainer, until he turns 65.
Obviously depending on his final Pay-grade he could have stayed active longer.
Or on the other hand, what if he was a part-timer. He did three, four, or six years active starting in 1975 and he went into the reserves after that [for the additional income]. He would be in the reserves until he accumulates the needed 'points' for retirement. Depending on how much 'training' he does, his reserve-time could easily stretch out until he turns 65. I have seen reservists doing their 2-weeks summer vacation, who had white hair and were terribly elderly.
Even a reservist-retiree can be called back for further service. A 'reservist-retiree' is a part-timers who has completed accumulating enough points to retire. They dont actually get any more pay-checks, and they lose most benefits until they turn 65. But they carry a blue-ID card.
On a completely different idea, the military does on occasion 'ask' a veteren [with no obligation of service] to come back 'in' to explain and over-see bringing some system out of moth-ball status. Old battle-ships, when we no longer have operating manuals or design specs, will require that we 'recruit' old guys from WWII. They are used to teach new crews and their knowledge is valuable.
". . . . They're looking to possibly draft medical people and other areas of specialty that are running low in the military."
We have done this one for decades. Any medical school has recruiters stationed there, to recruit medical students. Any student whose GPA drops and is in danger of losing his scholarships, can sign-up. The military will put him on a paycheck and cover tuition+, this obligates the doc to serve 6 years after he graduates medical school. On the other hand, no recidency, no internship is required. While the civilian counter-part is doing his residency, the military doc is an O-1 or O-2 running a division of medics. That is why we in the military have the 'best' medical care in the world. As our doctors can 'practice' without fear of mal-practice suits, they get really good pay and a 20-year retirement. Their offices are usually very well stocked and they get to play with very new and cutting-edge equipment [sometimes]. They dont have to deal with insurance companys, or billing, or even the cost of meds. They hold fairly high-ranking pay-grades and they routinely command hundreds of men.
". . . They want to be able to practically enslave people and force them to work at crappy government jobs."
Hmm, government jobs are enslaving and 'crappy'?
Granted I have not heard anything to imply that such was happening. On the other hand, government jobs are choice. They have got the best unions, the best vacation time, sick leave, maternity leave, mental-health leave, solid guaranteed pension plans and the 'Thrift savings plan'.
My wife works as a grocery store clerk, on Subase. She is a federal employee. She can transfer to any posting anywhere in the world, so long as she fulfills the minimum requirements for such job. Here in this area minimum wage is $7.05-ish. She makes $12, when she stocks shelves she makes more. She is working on her 20-year pension. Each week we look over the other available federal jobs, that she might qualify for. Forest Ranger [they needed a teacher to operate a historic artist's home that was made into a federal park], accountants, security guards, vehicle drivers, etc.
"I think Galen has been given incorrect information about recruitment levels,"
I have spoken with recruiters, recently as our eldest son went into the Army. After trying the Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard. They were full, or not willing to lower their entrance standards enough to allow him in. [He had a minor heart mummer as a child, which he out-grew? and as a teenager his physicals showed no signs of any further issues].
The Air Force Recruiters told me that they fill their annual quota by February each year. None of them [in conversation] appeared to be under quota, or even near close to hurting.
"It's a shame that the leaders of our military don't give our soldiers the proper training or equipment"
I might agree with this statement, sometimes. On the other hand, when this does happen it gets high-level attention from congress. [brought on because of the media attention it gets].
". . . then turn around and place them in harm's way without a good reason"
This is what the paycheck is for. Perhaps you did not know. The military's job is to stand in the way of danger. I dont recall any thing in any oath that I have sworn, about the 'reason'ing for each duty.
"It is not my job to reason why, it is my job to do or die"
"Nevermind that there is no real leadership overseeing things over there which allows crap like Abu Ghraib to happen."
This would be a matter for debate.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
Shellon:
"My neighbor is a 35 y/o desert storm vet and he can't re-enlist. He is going to Iraq on a contract for other purposes."
There exist really good jobs for vets, as contractors working in Theater.
Is he still on active-duty?
Is he approaching his projected retirement date?
Servicemembers do on occasion find themselves un-able to re-enlist due to poor performance evaluations.
Sometimes it is due to weight-gain [body-fat measurements become very hard to fight as one gets older].
"My brother is a 44 y/o marine and can't re-enlist."
As an active-duty servicemember, I presume that is he reaching his 'High-Year-Tenure' point. E-5s are allowed to stay on active until they reach 15 years. E-6s are allowed to stay active until they reach 20 years. E-7s ... 24 years, E-8s ..., E-9s ... 30 years.
I was forced to retire at my 20-year point. Can you guess my pay-grade?
:-)
"Is there some protocol to who can/can't/will/won't?"
There are many variables. But it is all done by following written policy and regulations, to make it 'fair, non-sexist, non-discriminitory'.
:-)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
valerie52
E-6 Galen?
In Israel, all males serve 3 years, and all females serve 2 years WITHOUT PAY.
They are given enought money for stuff, but they do not get a pay check. Their room and board is take care of etc....
While in Israel in Oct, our tour group was having a picnic in The Golan Heights and 200 IDF young soldiers came there also for their lunch. They were eating Kosher MRE's and we were eating fresh stuff so we shared, and they desended upon the food!
We took pictures. (I will be posting those on the "I went to Israel" thread).
Most of them were Russian Jewish Immigrants.
They came to Israel to serve their county,leaving their families behind in Russia, untill they can Alliah, (return to Israel).
These kids truly loved their country.
After the 2-3 year stint is up, they can continue, WITH PAY for a career.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
MATILDA
"E-6, Galen?"
weren't those Julius Caesar's last words on the steps?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
valerie52:
"E-6 Galen?"
Yes of course. :-)
"In Israel, all males serve 3 years, and all females serve 2 years WITHOUT PAY."
With the single exception being for religous beleifs .
"They are given enought money for stuff, but they do not get a pay check. Their room and board is take care of etc...."
Not nearly as well taken care of as are our servicemembers. But again they are far more commited to their cause.
"While in Israel in Oct, our tour group was having a picnic in The Golan Heights and 200 IDF young soldiers came there also for their lunch. They were eating Kosher MRE's and we were eating fresh stuff so we shared, and they desended upon the food!"
I would imagine that was a great experience. I really enjoyed my trip there with CES in 2000.
I really liked how we kept seeing platoons at so many sites, sitting and being taught their ancient history. It seemed to me that each Israeli soldier would make knowledgible tour-guides when they have completed their conscription.
"We took pictures. (I will be posting those on the "I went to Israel" thread)."
I look forward to seeing them.
"These kids truly loved their country."
Oh yes.
"After the 2-3 year stint is up, they can continue, WITH PAY for a career."
My understanding [which is formed from observations and conversation] from drinking with British, French and Italian sailors is that in Europe, conscription runs all the time at some low level bringing into the military such as they need. Those conscripts are limited to equivilant E-1 to E-3 pay-grades. Upon completing their conscription service they can re-up, get training and advancement to E-4.
What you describe about Israel sounds similiar.
:-)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
MATILDA:
"weren't those Julius Caesar's last words on the steps?"
Et Tu Brut'a
:-)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
wyteduv58
Sorry to all who favor the draft but there isn't enough money $ in this world to let my son die in that God aweful place they call a country.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
George Aar
Well, front page headline in the Seattle P-I today "Recruiters feel the pressure".
I guess there's going to be $12 million additional added to recruitment budget and 1,000 additional recruiters are going to be manning the offices around the country, to shore up the sagging recruitment numbers.
If that doesn't get the roles filled, whadaya think they'll do next, hmmm?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheSongRemainsTheSame
One Nam Coming up!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheSongRemainsTheSame
Besides I dont see the problem with running a draft. As I have stated previously, I am in favour of a draft. Remember having a draft does not mean that you are taking in any more recruits. A draft by birth-date can bring in everyone who has born on 1 january for example. That is still only 0.27% of the 18-35 population [ one person out of every 365 ]. Those getting a notice appear will still be allowed to present any defferment they might have. So anyone attending college, or working in industry, or any doctor, etc; is automatically protected. Then they are examined medically to screen out anyone with any pre-existing medical conditions. The sick, lame, crazy, students and professionals are exempted.
well well galen
how many of them will die!!!??? got any stats on that man?that is such horse ****~~~ war is war no matter who is exempted or drafted or vacation pay and college, conscript is forced , and evident before your eyes... all are involved... there is no exemption!
so, where does that qualify you?
Edited by oneyedjackswild1 psLink to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
TheSongRemainsTheSame:
""That is still only 0.27% of the 18-35 population [ one person out of every 365 ].""
"how many of them will die!!!??? got any stats on that man?_"
Sure significantly less than if the same number of people began a career driving trucks on American highways.
"war is war no matter who is exempted or drafted or vacation pay and college, conscript is forced , and evident before your eyes... all are involved... there is no exemption!"
I dont understand.
""The sick, lame, crazy, students and professionals are exempted.""
"so, where does that qualify you?"
I am a servicemember. No need to get any exemption here. Thank you for your concern.
Though apparantly a law changed [from when my brothers were drafted] and college students are apparantly no longer exempted. My bad.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheSongRemainsTheSame
Galen,
Thank you for your service for freedom.
There are no exemptions even if the best or worst are sent to war. All are involved. I am not just hanging around my home oh hum, when i know our elite and weekend warriors are dying. If one is joining the military, that one is not joining a college education or retirement if ya make it alive. Sorry about the truckers, but they drive on a freeway. Surely you know that Galen.
I still have my draft card from 1971. Selective Service I thinks it was called.
Thank you Galen for your service for freedom. I do mean that with all mine heart.
How is your son Sir?
song
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.