TopTenAwesomeTruths from TWI

[sky4it]

Darryl:

I also remember some Pentacostal and other preachers, who went into in depth word type studies from scripture, whose methods were not unlike the ways methods. Thru studies like that, some people were able to bring some good stuff out of the Prophets and such, so its not like The way was the only people who used word studies to teach the bible.

Any way thanks for the response Darryl, I'll catch up with yah later.

[oldiesman]

quote:

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My question is: What specific doctrines or practices did you learn in your “way years” that are:

Really usable in your “life”

---

here are a few:

Salvation by grace, not of works

speaking in tongues

the dead are still dead, awaiting the return

the bible is much more understandable and readable

the fact that these truths are taught elsewhere is irrelevant. I learned them in twi ... so that counts for something. and these things weren't all that readily available and rampant where I was back in 1973 ...

:)-->

[Danny]

I can sum mine up in one, it was all built on lies.

most of the coveted pfal stole from someone else.

most of the writings called reseach stole from others.

[def59]

quote:

---

Originally posted by oldiesman:

quote:

---

My question is: What specific doctrines or practices did you learn in your “way years” that are:

Really usable in your “life”

---

here are a few:

Salvation by grace, not of works

(Yes, but its not a blank check to go out and do anything one wants. There are limits placed on Christians.)

speaking in tongues

(debateable since they can be counterfeited.)

the dead are still dead, awaiting the return

(Except the word doesn't really say that.)

the bible is much more understandable and readable

(Yes, once I got away from the KJV)

the fact that these truths are taught elsewhere is irrelevant. I learned them in twi ... so that counts for something. and these things weren't all that readily available and rampant where I was back in 1973 ...

(You probably weren't looking for them either.)

:)-->

---

[cheranne]

Nothing.

Zero.

Zip.

Nada.

Complete waste of time, money, heart and everything I wasted on that terrible outfit. Anything worthwhile that can be gleaned from it can be learned much more easily and less painfully and in less time just by living life and applying common sense. Any good is absolutely completely overshadowed by the vile thought and behavior control and abuse.

If you want to wreck your life, try heroin. It's cheaper, less destructive and easier to kick. Plus, you will find it easier to explain to others when they ask you what you wasted your youth on.

Burn HQ to the ground and turn it back into a farm if anything will still grow in that corrupted dirt. That's the nicest thing I can say about the organization, and don't get me started on its sick, perverted, lying, diseased founder or his successors.

And I'm in a good mood right now so I'm holding back.

I agree with Jason.

[JustThinking]

In the end, there was more than enough bad to make me leave. However, the nice people I knew were what kept me there. In other words, not the doctrine. What WAS useful to me?

- The idea that one could study the Bible. (Not really done in my childhood church)

- Praying with a purpose. Again, not taught in my church. Not in any detail. I grew up thinking that prayer was like the church version of 911.

- That books like a Concordance existed. After my first twig, I asked what it was and someone took an hour to show me how to use it. Very kind and patient.

As Oldies said, they weren't new to the world but I did learn them in TWI so I'm grateful. There are more but I'm tired. :)

JT

[JeffSjo]

TopTenAwesomeTruths from TWI

Following the flow of several threads about TWI doctrine and

it’s continued stature with ex-way folk like CES, CFF, etc.

And in conjunction with the recent post and letter from John Lynn saying, and I quote:

from letter to Steve Lortz:

“because I believe that we did hear the Word as it had not been taught since the first century, and I long to see my former pals and peers sort out their experiences so as to be healed as needed, and move forward in the Lord. “

and a little later in that same letter:

“But the evils of the TWI system must be separated from the awesome truth of God's Word that was taught, and which saved the lives of countless people, and those who have not made that distinction have thrown out the baby with the bathwater. Tens of thousands of people had positive experiences with TWI and learned the Word like they could not have anywhere else. The Enemy saw clearly that VPW/TWI did have a (1) package of biblical truth unlike anything for centuries, and (2) a rapidly growing number of people committed to spreading it around the world, so he used the character flaws of many leaders, combined with significant doctrinal error, to tear apart what really did have the potential to take the Word over the world.

We have simply tried to hold to all the good we found in TWI while deleting the doctrinal and practical error, build on that foundation and move forward toward that same goal. What is wrong with that? We will let the fruit of our work in people's lives speak for itself.”

The underlined text is my way of highlighting the text I am speaking about.

Now from the post from John to Greasespot:

“For 17+ years we in CES (now Spirit and Truth Fellowship Int'l) have worked very hard to hold to the awesome truth we heard in TWI, delete the significant error, and move forward with the Lord Jesus.

...

I have seen the carnage firsthand and have done my best, flawed though it is, to help to heal people's hearts.

But the evils of TWI must be separated from the awesome truth of God's Word that was taught, and which saved the lives of countless people. Those who have not made that distinction have thrown out the baby with the bathwater, to their own spiritual detriment.

Tens of thousands of people had positive experiences with TWI and learned the Word like they could not have anywhere else. The Enemy saw clearly that VPW/TWI did have (1) a package of biblical truth unlike anything for centuries, and (2) a rapidly growing number of people committed to spreading it around the world, so he used the character flaws of many leaders (including me), combined with significant doctrinal error (which led to practical error), to tear apart what really did have the potential to take the Word over the world. “

____

It should be clear that John and others in CES, as well as many who post here at the Greasy Spot, believe there was and still is significant truth in some but not all twi doctrine.

My question is: What specific doctrines or practices did you learn in your “way years” that are:

Really usable in your “life”

And, that are not available (fitting the “not known for centuries” criterion) in other places where people teach, study, share the Bible, even in other times and places?

-------

Now I am sincerely asking this question.

I have my own experiences, my own study and research and conclusions.

It has been almost 25 years since I heard a twig leader teach.

I visited with John Lynn around 1990 and attended a CES meeting or two then.

I have studied continually since I left the way, and at this point in my life there are very few twi “principles” that I “operate”, or am aware that I operate.

There are not any things from TWI that I consider to be of significant value in my life.

I still believe in God and Jesus.

I pray every day to my Father and to the Lord Jesus.

I have seen time and time again how my prayers have helped the people I pray for and how my behavior and interaction with those people has changed because the Lord used my prayers to him to show me how I could:

Help those people myself and how much I needed their help. It has increased my respect for those who I pray for.

I am confident that the Lord Jesus is working with all of us who post here, whether we are in harmony about all subjects of doctrine or not.

I do believe that Jesus is Master (as in Instructor) and Commander (as in Lord).

Since the way I have learned so much about all these things from many different sources which contradicts virtually the essence of twi doctrine, practice and attitude.

--

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Discuss among yourselves. (cough, cough)

More to come . . .

Darrell Bailey

Greater Indianapolis Area

Dear Darrell Bailey,

I have no doubt as to your good intentions or the sincerity of your searching.

But as it pertains to TWI doctrine many of your statements are too generalized for me to form any opinion other than I would tend to believe in your sincerity. And many, many specific doctrinal points have been bandied about for years here at GSC by folks who hold many, many different beliefs. A lot of that work and history has exposed what IMO is simple plagiarism, vainglory, and strife in Wierwille's actions even as he set up TWI.

And I don't seem to have met many people who seem to be able to consider that point of view scripturally honestly.

It seems to me that it was inevitable that due to Wierwille's intentions TWI was doomed to be rotten from the get-go. And as the Lord has promised to burn up lousy workmanship and take revenge on those who have despitefully used and ruined people financially and in any manner to sate their own piggish lusts that your dry and intellectual manner seems to me to fall a bit short of dealing with what really was going on among Wierwille's kids back in the day. Not to mention the inevitable leaven that has leavened the whole lump.

BUT WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU THINK IS "BABY" AND "BATHWATER"

(added in editing) (I had to log-off for a bit)(Oh yeah...sigh...spelling too)

It really seems to me that without complete honesty on the part of those who attempt to keep the Word alive TWI style that folks are pretty much being set up to fail in their endeavor.

If someone is unwilling to take a real honest look at what the epistles say are the consequences of Wierwille's actions that they are unqualified to discern between "The baby and the bathwater."

And if ex-TWI leadership doesn't openly repudiate all the hidden, yet cruel methods of leadership that they are almost certainly carrying on with all those manipulative and oppressive mannerisms.

And if ex-TWI leadership doesn't openly handle each and every single legitimate complaint that many folks justly have that all their claims as to "great biblical truths" seem likely to be just more self-serving spin.

Edited July 28, 2009 by JeffSjo

[Ham]

I think that the Kool Aid concept from some other authors is mean spirited

maybe one needs to define exactly what that concept is..

Maybe this concept is to abandon ones critical thinking and reasoning skills, hold onto an arcane doctrine or practice, in spite of ones own senses, education, upbringing and good judgement. just because herr vicmeister or someone else said it, or repeated it until it sounded believable. All the while, ignoring or denigrating logical debate and putting fingers in ones ears and crying "nya nya nya, I can't HEARRRRR YOUUUUU".

I think that's what it is.. am I close?

or is it more simply a reference to a suject of the early sixties, where one consumed a cup of this stuff, and shortly "went out of their mind"?

maybe after a cup of it.. one can see babies in bathwater, everwhere.. except the rainbow colored babies have a beard..

Edited July 28, 2009 by Ham

[waysider]

"I think that the Kool Aid concept from some other authors is mean spirited."

Oh, I don't know----change the LSD references to SIT references and the parallels become more apparent.

The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test

Acid Tests

Edited July 29, 2009 by waysider

[RumRunner]

Robert Hunter - Stanford Univ - circa 1964