I can't speak for Catcup, but I'd like to hear her viewpoint on your question.
I don't believe life is so mechanical that one is required to wait for repentence before forgiveness/mercy is administered.
Gee, that would be another law I'd have to follow. But what about walking in the spirit... fruit of the spirit is love, joy peace longsuffering gentleness goodness meekness temperance against such there is no law ...
Also there may well be a legitimate reason why the person who caused harm is not repenting. they may be preoccupied, unaware, oblivious, blind, cold, hardhearted, or dead.
Why do I have to base my ability to forgive and have mercy on someone else?
As you might have gathered before oldies, and mj, I do not give a fig about what any one of us currently believe ... that includes geek,... as due to participation in twi, we have all believed assinine stuff before now.
What I WANT to know is, why valid scripture is being dismissed in favor of each persons own
is this like a secret message ~~~ like a surprise party .... shhh i have the helium and balloons and confetti
AND GOD SAYS OH MY GOD
SURPRISE!!!
and thats just like you isnt it song, to throw around your sarcasm everywhere and then run away like your the pie surprise. And then you accuse me of bullying? This is what you do when I post, you come around throw your crap. Oh, guess what, I changed my mind, the "WE" is more approbriate, Ive got a parrot on my shoulder. If you dont have anything positive or challenging to say, I'd rather youd just shut your mouth. Personally, I dont care about what you say anyway.
The scripture being dismissed is the one that states that the offending brother is to be rebuked, and WHEN they ask for forgiveness, you are required to forgive .... nothing anyone here has addressed this scripture.
We are all recovering from various assinine beliefs that we held while involved in twi....me included....I do not trust your pet theory, nor that of oldies, cat, geek , myself or anyone ELSE! Our opinions and beliefs have been indisputibly proven wrong in one form or another, since departing twi, Our opinions have been proven unreliable......therefor what you personally *think* or *feel* holds no interest to me...... it has nothing to do with like or dislike....
quote:The scripture being dismissed is the one that states that the offending brother is to be rebuked, and WHEN they ask for forgiveness, you are required to forgive .... nothing anyone here has addressed this scripture.
Who's dismissing it? The verse says that if a condition is met, forgiveness is required.
But
It does not say that if that condition is not met, forgiveness is prohibited.
It also backs up how scriptures say that forgiveness works between us n God...we repent, we ask, he forgives....anything else you guys add is speculation....which is fine if you feel like doing it personally .... but indicating that anyone ELSE oughtta be doin it for their own good, steps over the line into judgement and finger pointing.
Since no one has mentioned this verse I thought I'd throw it in the mix.
Matthew 6 KJV
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 6 Amplified Bible
14For if you forgive people their trespasses [their [1] reckless and willful sins, [2] leaving them, letting them go, and [3] giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15But if you do not forgive others their trespasses [their [4] reckless and willful sins, [5] leaving them, letting them go, and [6] giving up resentment], neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses.
Matthew 6 American Standard Version
14 "(1) For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 "But (2) if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.
Sure all of those verses say to forgive, but none of em negate the need of repentance FIRST....God doesn`t forgive us before we ask...even EVEN if we were to forgive every wrong ever committed, were we to not repent ourselves, and ask, God wouldn`t forgive us.....without repentance those verses are not applicable......
Maybe but I don't see anywhere in the verse where the clause repentence first is found. You are adding it. If we add to scripture then in fairness we have to alow others to also subtract. I think that if He wanted it to have a repentence first clause then He would have had it written that way. I can't assume He forgot to add it.
Rascal, as for the dirty kitty litter, you are the one who set the tone on this thread.
You still don't get it.
Other people answered the question that they were not ready to forgive, and took no offense.
You and some others are so touchy regarding the question, it can't even be brought up without you bristling at it. That has more to do with you all than it does with us.
Jon and I already clarified our intents. Anyone who still takes offense where none was intended and clarified, simply WANTS to take offense and is purposefully distorting what we said, taking our words out of context, and taking an analogy too far. That's not us, that's you all, and is typical of a person who has
LOST ALL PERSPECTIVE.
Jon took time away from our family, from things that needed to be done this past weekend, to try to give an answer from his heart in the time he had. Because he spent time doing that, certain things in our family did not get done that really needed to.
And, you STILL just wanted to pick, take things out of context, take his analogy too far, and then dare to suggest he is a troll and is feigning being too busy.
I don't mind sacrificing something once in a while to help someone who really wants an answer. I dedicated my life to doing that for years. I've always been willing to help people who really want it.
But some of you folks don't f*****g have a life at all, do nothing but sit your fat arse in front of a computer all day to pick at gnats like pharisees to the neglect of a genuine life and resent it that someone else has one, and get angry that we don't drop what we are doing and attend to you because you want to fight all day.
Life to us now, is too precious to give ours to people who want to waste it.
The good people who come here and KNOW our hearts, also know where to find us when they need to.
You people who just want to pretend how righteous you are while twisting our words, putting words in our mouths, leveling false accusations against us and even demanding an accounting of us for our time, don't get it that you are as abusive as the cult you claim to have left.
You may have left TWI, but you carry on your abusive behaviors here. You have replaced TWI with GSC and (unfairly to GSC) are using it to continue your own abusive patterns which you refuse to admit you have.
To those of you who know us, and have contacted us outside this thread to let us know of your support, we thank you, and you obviously know how to reach us if you need to.
To those of you who are abusive on this thread, we owe you absolutely nothing, not one more second of what is left of our precious lives.
Oh well cat, I guess that we will have to understand that neither can comprehend the other.... too bad, but am glad that God cares about us in in spite of that. I suppose that we will each continue on the path we percieve that he has laid out for us......learning and growing. I wish you well on the course that you have charted for your journey...
these two dominate and control nearly the entire board.
We know all of their life , every addictive and nasty detail . they beg for pity and are the nastiest in the lot if anyone dares cross their power be warned they can and do get away with alot more than personal attacks . so here is mine
this forum is their friend sitting on their butts dreaming of having a life. but because they are safe and never to be accountable they love this place.
they leave a bad stink in the very purpose of GS cafe with their constant fights and ranting of which they only have their opinion and thinking to back up for any kind of proof. neither one can speak with any inteligence about scripture yet they will agrue it to the bone and have wearied many a traveling through.
if they are met with intellience and someone who DARES they will tag team attack and call in reinenforcements if needed e-mail speed dial and private topics are normal for these two.
both speak evil of their own families and spouses they will stop at nothing for the throne .
you can have it girly girls. Maybe a litle time for excersize for your problem cool or some of that more precious mommy time could benefit you two instead of the countless hours you two stay on this site. some advice for the ones who know it all.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
70
66
71
45
Popular Days
Oct 28
93
Oct 29
84
Oct 30
47
Nov 9
46
Top Posters In This Topic
rascal 70 posts
excathedra 66 posts
TheSongRemainsTheSame 71 posts
Catcup 45 posts
Popular Days
Oct 28 2004
93 posts
Oct 29 2004
84 posts
Oct 30 2004
47 posts
Nov 9 2004
46 posts
rascal
So I am curious...is that cat analogy our carefully thought out and considered answere?
How does this address the scriptures requiring that the offender to repent and ask before we are rquired to forgive?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
I can't speak for Catcup, but I'd like to hear her viewpoint on your question.
I don't believe life is so mechanical that one is required to wait for repentence before forgiveness/mercy is administered.
Gee, that would be another law I'd have to follow. But what about walking in the spirit... fruit of the spirit is love, joy peace longsuffering gentleness goodness meekness temperance against such there is no law ...
Also there may well be a legitimate reason why the person who caused harm is not repenting. they may be preoccupied, unaware, oblivious, blind, cold, hardhearted, or dead.
Why do I have to base my ability to forgive and have mercy on someone else?
I don't.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mj412
when David had the affair with the wife of his neighbor, when Paul persecuted the christians .
how did they repent? YET they indeed are great men working for God.
God is the one on the throne and the day of vengence belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ for all.
I know I hold no vengence as HE tells me it ONLY belongs to HIM.
but I am asked to forgive many times over in the bible.
Repent to God almighty trust me you will never be sorry enough for mankind.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
As you might have gathered before oldies, and mj, I do not give a fig about what any one of us currently believe ... that includes geek,... as due to participation in twi, we have all believed assinine stuff before now.
What I WANT to know is, why valid scripture is being dismissed in favor of each persons own
pet theories and poor analogies.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mj412
you want to know why valid scriptures is being dismissed ?
you tell me Rascal . your the one who says scripture you do not agree with is assine and state you do not want to hear it from olds or me or rg.
you are the very one deny and dismissing scripture.
because you do not like me or old or rg?
the chrisitans were terrified of Paul and David was certainly spoke about as having very poor taste... adultry and all.
so is the revelation they brought not up to your standard as well?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sky4it
song:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The skinny is this. I think we need to let God know that we appreciate him as his role as God
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
is this like a secret message ~~~ like a surprise party .... shhh i have the helium and balloons and confetti
AND GOD SAYS OH MY GOD
SURPRISE!!!
and thats just like you isnt it song, to throw around your sarcasm everywhere and then run away like your the pie surprise. And then you accuse me of bullying? This is what you do when I post, you come around throw your crap. Oh, guess what, I changed my mind, the "WE" is more approbriate, Ive got a parrot on my shoulder. If you dont have anything positive or challenging to say, I'd rather youd just shut your mouth. Personally, I dont care about what you say anyway.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Why do you have to make this about you mj?
The scripture being dismissed is the one that states that the offending brother is to be rebuked, and WHEN they ask for forgiveness, you are required to forgive .... nothing anyone here has addressed this scripture.
We are all recovering from various assinine beliefs that we held while involved in twi....me included....I do not trust your pet theory, nor that of oldies, cat, geek , myself or anyone ELSE! Our opinions and beliefs have been indisputibly proven wrong in one form or another, since departing twi, Our opinions have been proven unreliable......therefor what you personally *think* or *feel* holds no interest to me...... it has nothing to do with like or dislike....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
But
It does not say that if that condition is not met, forgiveness is prohibited.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Nor is it indicated that it is *best* for us....
It also backs up how scriptures say that forgiveness works between us n God...we repent, we ask, he forgives....anything else you guys add is speculation....which is fine if you feel like doing it personally .... but indicating that anyone ELSE oughtta be doin it for their own good, steps over the line into judgement and finger pointing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mj412
then why did Jesus command it Rascal ? so what Jesus asks and then commands us to forgive 70 times 7 isnt it good enough for you?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mj412
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Reread it..........read the sentances before 70x7.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Anyone wanna take a shot at this one:
Since no one has mentioned this verse I thought I'd throw it in the mix.
Matthew 6 KJV
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 6 Amplified Bible
14For if you forgive people their trespasses [their [1] reckless and willful sins, [2] leaving them, letting them go, and [3] giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15But if you do not forgive others their trespasses [their [4] reckless and willful sins, [5] leaving them, letting them go, and [6] giving up resentment], neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses.
Matthew 6 American Standard Version
14 "(1) For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 "But (2) if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
WhiteDove, I mentioned that on page one of this thread, although not quoting the scripture. As they say, those who have ears to hear, will hear. ...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Sure all of those verses say to forgive, but none of em negate the need of repentance FIRST....God doesn`t forgive us before we ask...even EVEN if we were to forgive every wrong ever committed, were we to not repent ourselves, and ask, God wouldn`t forgive us.....without repentance those verses are not applicable......
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Maybe but I don't see anywhere in the verse where the clause repentence first is found. You are adding it. If we add to scripture then in fairness we have to alow others to also subtract. I think that if He wanted it to have a repentence first clause then He would have had it written that way. I can't assume He forgot to add it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CoolWaters
It's also very hard to talk about a subject and be "on the same page" when some of the people are literalists and some of the people are not. :/
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Catcup
Rascal, as for the dirty kitty litter, you are the one who set the tone on this thread.
You still don't get it.
Other people answered the question that they were not ready to forgive, and took no offense.
You and some others are so touchy regarding the question, it can't even be brought up without you bristling at it. That has more to do with you all than it does with us.
Jon and I already clarified our intents. Anyone who still takes offense where none was intended and clarified, simply WANTS to take offense and is purposefully distorting what we said, taking our words out of context, and taking an analogy too far. That's not us, that's you all, and is typical of a person who has
LOST ALL PERSPECTIVE.
Jon took time away from our family, from things that needed to be done this past weekend, to try to give an answer from his heart in the time he had. Because he spent time doing that, certain things in our family did not get done that really needed to.
And, you STILL just wanted to pick, take things out of context, take his analogy too far, and then dare to suggest he is a troll and is feigning being too busy.
I don't mind sacrificing something once in a while to help someone who really wants an answer. I dedicated my life to doing that for years. I've always been willing to help people who really want it.
But some of you folks don't f*****g have a life at all, do nothing but sit your fat arse in front of a computer all day to pick at gnats like pharisees to the neglect of a genuine life and resent it that someone else has one, and get angry that we don't drop what we are doing and attend to you because you want to fight all day.
Life to us now, is too precious to give ours to people who want to waste it.
The good people who come here and KNOW our hearts, also know where to find us when they need to.
You people who just want to pretend how righteous you are while twisting our words, putting words in our mouths, leveling false accusations against us and even demanding an accounting of us for our time, don't get it that you are as abusive as the cult you claim to have left.
You may have left TWI, but you carry on your abusive behaviors here. You have replaced TWI with GSC and (unfairly to GSC) are using it to continue your own abusive patterns which you refuse to admit you have.
To those of you who know us, and have contacted us outside this thread to let us know of your support, we thank you, and you obviously know how to reach us if you need to.
To those of you who are abusive on this thread, we owe you absolutely nothing, not one more second of what is left of our precious lives.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CoolWaters
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaang! I remember saying some of these very same things once upon a time.
Didn't float then, probably won't float now.
Sigh.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Catcup
My "turn"?
I don't think so.
I was never banned from WD or GS.
People were banned from WD when their behavior became abusive.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Oh well cat, I guess that we will have to understand that neither can comprehend the other.... too bad, but am glad that God cares about us in in spite of that. I suppose that we will each continue on the path we percieve that he has laid out for us......learning and growing. I wish you well on the course that you have charted for your journey...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mj412
Amen
I always loved cats.
these two dominate and control nearly the entire board.
We know all of their life , every addictive and nasty detail . they beg for pity and are the nastiest in the lot if anyone dares cross their power be warned they can and do get away with alot more than personal attacks . so here is mine
this forum is their friend sitting on their butts dreaming of having a life. but because they are safe and never to be accountable they love this place.
they leave a bad stink in the very purpose of GS cafe with their constant fights and ranting of which they only have their opinion and thinking to back up for any kind of proof. neither one can speak with any inteligence about scripture yet they will agrue it to the bone and have wearied many a traveling through.
if they are met with intellience and someone who DARES they will tag team attack and call in reinenforcements if needed e-mail speed dial and private topics are normal for these two.
both speak evil of their own families and spouses they will stop at nothing for the throne .
you can have it girly girls. Maybe a litle time for excersize for your problem cool or some of that more precious mommy time could benefit you two instead of the countless hours you two stay on this site. some advice for the ones who know it all.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cowgirl
Catcup........1st of all, I do have a life
secondly- I don't have a fat arse, thankyou.
and thirdly- you're the one being abusive!!
Cowgirl
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.