To me, to jump on the "cult experts'" train is to jump from one group's set of pat answers (twi's) to another (the so called "experts"), and it isn't much of a leap. That's why I call it the "anti-cult cult."
These "experts" seem to work from the premise that every wrong thing done by every non-mainstream religious group is based on some evil, well-thought-out plan. Good grief, it sounds like there's a cult handbook that everyone who starts a controlling religious group buys from Amazon.com and then follows:
I can see it now. "Okay, I'd like to start a cult. I want people to follow and obey me and give me all their money. What ever shall I do? Oh I know, I'll check the cult-leader's handbook!" (sound of pages turning)
Step 1. Sit them on the floor.
Step 2. Get them to sing some children's songs (which, by the way, we did not sing at every meal in residence, and we were in the Family Corps, with kids present who LIKED singing children's songs. This kind of exaggeration hinders "innies" from giving credence to the ACTUAL crap that went on in twi, IMO.)
Step 3. Call them "kids" (never mind that you're old enough to be a grandfather to many of them and old enough to be a father to most).
Step 4. "Love-bomb" them.
Step 5. Have a personality. No cult will go far without someone with personality at the helm.
Etc., etc.
I have no doubt that twi went wrong, very very wrong, and that downfall began under VPW's dominion, even before the spit spewer danced onto the throne in tights.
Rather than a pat formula for how cults "work," though, I'd attribute how "cults" work to human nature. People gather in groups. People are drawn together because they have like interests. People are vulnerable to manipulation becuase they are human, and people manipulate other people because, well, they're human, too.
There is a striking similarity between the words cult and culture, isn't there?
I believe David Anderson said it best in a post long ago: Twi went wrong when VPW started believing his own PR. And we went wrong for the same reason. To wrap up how a cult (in this case twi) happens into a neat little package like this is as naive, in my opinion, as to wrap up your entire life in "the magic of believing." The pat, formula answers offered by the "cult experts" are just as insidious as any of the pseudo-research put out by twi.
I understand Jim, you had no way of knowing my peeves.
Of course we can discuss this & even debate it if need be. It's not me giving you the chance, you have every right to post at will whether I like what you say or not.
If our viewpoints oppose, it will be food for though for anyone else. I don't entirely disagree with you. Wasn't entirely addressing you, I'm not good enough to express perfectly, so
lets have it it, AS FRIENDs or brothers would.
Hope you've had a good family day when you get back here. I'm off to church with the boys, myself.
As Linda Z intimated, the bottom line here, I think, is that we were ALL, in some way "...drawn away of our OWN lusts, inticed...."
A very astute observation, Howard. It seems to me that a lot of this stuff was about "tempting God."
I remember throughout my life being delivered from some pretty incredible situations. The stories are largely irrelevant here, but it seems like the laws of physics may have been stretched :)--> I am sure that a lot of us can recall things like that happening throughout our lives.
The thing I find out about TWI in general, and LEAD in particular, is that people were put in crazy, dangerous situations not for any particular good, but just as a teaching exercise.
Now, Howard, I've done a lot of things in my past. While in the military, one of the things I've had to do (among thousands of others) was set up training. Sometimes very difficult, very physically, mentally, and emotionally trying training for people...in an effort to teach certain behavioral (doing), cognitive (thinking) and affective (believing) objectives. Some of the training involved classic military group skills (fire team, squad, and platoon level skills training), strategic and operational large group skills (up to theater level). Shoot, in one assignment, I even had to be qualified to be a high-ropes course instructor.
Anyway, in all of these situations, our first concern was to stress safety. Always. The second concern was the management of all events and all reasonably likely sequels to those decisions. We used to map out sequences of planned events on a timeline and then the decisions and their consequences on networks that proceeded from that basic timeline. By the time we were done with our planning, we'd have a spiderweb of a network diagram drawn so that those of us providing the training could keep control of the situation...first, to ensure safety, and second, to keep the training going where we wanted it to go.
I realize that LEAD is not military training but it does employ experiential learning concepts in order to teach whatever objectives they wanted to pass on. And I can tell you that they did not employ basic techniques to assure effective training. That's why you hear some people saying that it was the greatest thing since sliced bread and you have other people that said that it irreperably damaged them. Contingency planning is fundamental to experiential learning. I don't see that this was done. (Now, if there are some former LEAD instructors here, I will be happy to have them tell me that I'm wrong in that assumption)
Assuming that I'm correct in my assessment, the whole scenario reeks of:
quote:Mat 4:5 Then the devil takes him to the holy city, and sets him upon the edge of the temple,
Mat 4:6 and says to him, If thou be Son of God cast thyself down; for it is written, He shall give charge to his angels concerning thee, and on [their] hands shall they bear thee, lest in anywise thou strike thy foot against a stone.
Mat 4:7 Jesus said to him, It is again written, Thou shalt not tempt [the] Lord thy God.
You put people in dangerous situations and then say, if you believe, you'll get through it? Give me a break. If that's not tempting God, I don't know what is.
I think that you're assessment, "I don't blame Kevin. I blame the devil," is pretty accurate. But at what point did the devil have his input: in the essence of the Way Corps program with its learning objectives? in the essence of the the LEAD program with its objectives? For the condition of the road and/ or the weather conditions? Or a (possible) lack of concentration on driving in a dangerous situation?
Howard, I wasn't there. I don't know. All I know is that the situation you described is horrible.
Riding in the truck like that definately was not the thing to do.
We were young, it was a beautiful day, we did a stupid thing, many got hurt.
Not trivializing, just paraphrasing.
Howard, I've done things that today seem unwise. At the time it was what I had to work with so I did the best I could. I certainly didn't mean to judge you and Kevin. I have some "emotional memories" of being dealt with carelessly. Placed in a position where I had to squint my eyes and strain my brain and just hope like heck I had God's protection on me, because I certainly had no business allowing myself to be placed in such a "senses" stupid place to be.
They set us up for that crap. Just believe God to see yourself be the victor in the situation. Well um, okay then I guess. But it sure would be nice if I could just have some of my money back and drive my own car back to the campus. How's that going to lesson my spiritual training any?
Howard, it's just the whole thing with them. The incredible careless way in which they handled our lives.
Just a thought - After the LEAD accident, did anybody minister healing to anybody?
And when Craig came out, did he pray for anyone or minister to them or did he just talk about stuff and then go off the eat his breakfast "that would choke a horse?"
Hi all. Somewhere back in the depths of this thread, someone mentioned a girl who was raped while on the road, and how she never returned to Emporia. The incident sounds like an incident that happened during my first year in rez with the 10th Corps. I posted that incident over on the "Other LEAD stories" thread, but now I will post it here to see if anyone over here, knows more about it. First I will try and find that post that someone over here said about it.
Oh, here is that quote by Dagoo:
quote: While hitching to LEAD a 10 corps woman was abducted at a truck stop and beaten and raped. She escaped alive. Never returned to Emporia.. At least J Lynn communicated concern for her and her whereabouts.
And so, Dagoo says that JAL brought it up, which causes me to think that maybe it happened during my last year in rez when the 12th Corps was in their 1st in rez year. at any rate, here is what I posted earlier on that other thread. I wonder if Ex 10 knows anything about it? Anyway, here is that incident as I remember it.
quote: I do remember an incident that one person mentioned over on the LEAD Accident thread. And it was the first time that my suspicions proved to be true.
There was a gal in the Tenth Corps who went LEAD with another Tenth Corps guy. It ended up that they came back early, and that Craig got up and said something to the effect that "While hitch hiking Br**o did not live up to his responsibility as a man, and therefore our sister (Mary somebody?) has had this terrible thing happen to her". And because of this guys "failing to live up to his responsibility as a man", he was kicked out of the Corps.
The girl, who did in fact return to Emporia for awhile before she just plain left, had been, as I suspected, raped . I remember seeing her sitting at the tables in the "lunch room" (my wife still calls it the "lunch room" which cracks me up-sounds like "Kindygarden"), and all I can remember is that she "looked like death". She never smiled, and she was in constant torment. And so, I figured that she must have been raped. Well, ya know, no details were ever divulged to us, and, she just plain "left the Corps one day", and I never saw her again, at the Rock or otherwise. I think I saw the guy a few times after that, at the Rock and such, for he was an excellent fiddle player and was always playing at the family tables.
And ya know, I don't know any of these details. But I remember having a great sense of loss over our Corps sister's terrible hurt and trauma, and, I felt great sadness for the guy who had been her hitching partner. This guy, was a really sweet guy. He was very small, skinny, kind, and not real "macho". And since I didn't know the circumstances, how could I have "judged him" for "not being man enough" to ward off some crazed fuc*ing rapist who wanted to steal the soul from our skinny little sister? She was very petite btw. Neither of them were very "formidable", and what if the guy had had a gun? Maybe Br**o couldn't have done a damned thing! Except maybe have gotten his head blown off..
And so, does anybody know anything else about this? I have been curious for years!
quote:I understand Jim, you had no way of knowing my peeves.
Of course we can discuss this & even debate it if need be. It's not me giving you the chance, you have every right to post at will whether I like what you say or not.
No need at all. It's not the first time I've made that sort of mistake and I appreciate you reminding me of it.
Regarding the accident and "blame".
I've long been interested in bad accidents and how they come about. I read Flying magazine and the first things I turn to are "Aftermath" and "On the Record". Aftermath is a detailed analysis of one particular tragic accident and On the record is several summerized accident reports from FAA records. I'm also interested in accidents because I design and sell products that can be misused.
What I've learned is that virtually all horrific accidents are the result of two or three overlooked details that happened to converge on that particular day. In many cases, once the accident starts to unfold, it's too late for any corrective action.
I think this is what happened to your group. Trailers are notoriously unstable in gusty conditions, the vehicle was overloaded, and by the time Kevin realized the situation was out of control, it was too late to do anything about it. The only thing else I would add is that the vehicle was totally inappropriate for the job.
A couple of months ago my daughter came into my office, shaking and her face pale. She was on the freeway, following a pickup with a trailer. A gust of wind hit, the pickup and trailer fishtailed and the trailer flipped on it's side right in front of her. It was her first really close call as a driver.
I didn't know about the incident until our last year at Emporia, when the girl was sent to LEAD again. It just so happened she was in my twig at LEAD. She had alot of problems, and after we got back to Emporia, she left. That's when I found out what she had been through.
Her name wasn't Mary, though, and I have a BIG problem with posting a rape victim's name here. :(-->
Evidently, when she and her partner were hitching to LEAD, they got a ride with a trucker. When he stopped at a truck stop, the corps guy got out of the truck to use the restroom, leaving the girl in the truck alone with the driver. He drove off with her, and raped and beat her. That's all I know.
why would wierwille tell me since i was 19 that he should "do the nasty" with me to help me over child sexual abuse ?
and when i told him time and time again i just couldn't see it or understand (crying my stupid head off)..... he finally healed me after a couple of drinks on the motor coach.....
do you think i should blame the adversary ?
i'm not trying to focus attention on myself please see that. if not, fine
quote:why would wierwille tell me since i was 19 that he should "do the nasty" with me to help me over child sexual abuse ?
and when i told him time and time again i just couldn't see it or understand (crying my stupid head off)..... he finally healed me after a couple of drinks on the motor coach.....
To get back to the "over-loaded truck" aspect of this story, my experience wasn't much different. It was May of 1985 I went on LEAD, and it was one of those "traveling sessions" they held. The one I went to was in the Black Hills of South Dakota.
We all met at the local mall, parked vehicles there for the week, and transfered all our camping stuff into the LEAD vehicle. I don't remember what kind of truck they had, but it was a big one pulling one of those sturdy Wells Cargo trailers behind it.
They piled as many of us as they could in the back of their truck (there were about 25 to 30 of us on this session), and conscripted two other people (who had a full-sized truck, and a station wagon) to transport the rest of us to the starting point. Since all our gear was in the Wells Cargo trailer, they deemed two extra vehicles *enough* to get us all to the site.
We were packed like sardines in those two trucks, and the wagon. I was in the back of one of the trucks, and I still remember one guy saying on the ride -- "This is nuts. I for one wouldn't mind abundantly sharing a little gas to help out." We all agreed, but we didn't question the *thinking* behind it.
Since this was in '85 -- I guess they did not learn their lesson from your experience, HCW. The ride to the campsite was a pretty up-beat one despite the crowding. The ride home was subdued and silent. While we were out there, we were surprised to see a uniformed officer coming up the path, looking for "whoever is in charge here". It was from him that we learned docvic had passed away.
I don't remember who was running the show that week, but the name Kevin rings a familiar bell. He (or whomever) decided to cut the week short by one day, and we all headed back to the mall -- in the two trucks, and the one station wagon -- where they put us to work dividing up the supplies into daily meals, for the next session they were going to run.
i'm not a big "hunt down the cult" type person; i didn't even make it through that "best seller" (on here) book about the subtle power of spiritual abuse
I rearly come to GS I use to post on waydale (but not very often).
I just happened to read this thread and am sadden by all the destruction that was part of the daily operations of the way. I was in the 10th and left the 1st yr in. I was told I was also possessed and asked RT if I am why don't you cast it out, I was told there was no use because I would only let them back in and they would be more then I already had, so in essense he was doing me a favor. It was only by the grace of God that I survived, there was no waydale, gs or any support, not a whole lot of people were leaving back then. I spent year fighting not kill myself, because I still belived them to be right. I eventually came to know the truth and sites like this help in letting others know the truth.
Light does dispell darkness and make manifest thier deeds.
I understand how Rochelle came to belive she had no worth, they told her that.
I was told why didn't I just get a gun and blow my brains out, I would do God a favor. For many years I believed them and would cry myself to sleep, begging God to release me from this life.
I didn't kill myself because I didn't want the ministry to be blamed. How sick was I?
They were to blame!!!!!
Even though my reasons for not committing suicide were off, I'm thankful I stuck it out.
HCW
GS Regular
If they thought you were so damn possessed why didn't they cast the spirit out???
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HCW
As far as standing up, talking back. People did that a lot, especially after POP. People got "mad as hell, and we're not gonna take it anymore!" Of my personal pet peeves was the whole money thing. T
HAPe4me
I never participated in it, but I always thought it sounded like "Outward Bound", which has been measurably more successful in achieving it's participant's goals.
So_crates
Yes, but then there's the counter teaching: If you obey the MOG, God will bless you. So what do you do when the MOG orders you to act recklessly? Rhetorical question. SoCrates
Linda Z
To me, to jump on the "cult experts'" train is to jump from one group's set of pat answers (twi's) to another (the so called "experts"), and it isn't much of a leap. That's why I call it the "anti-cult cult."
These "experts" seem to work from the premise that every wrong thing done by every non-mainstream religious group is based on some evil, well-thought-out plan. Good grief, it sounds like there's a cult handbook that everyone who starts a controlling religious group buys from Amazon.com and then follows:
I can see it now. "Okay, I'd like to start a cult. I want people to follow and obey me and give me all their money. What ever shall I do? Oh I know, I'll check the cult-leader's handbook!" (sound of pages turning)
Step 1. Sit them on the floor.
Step 2. Get them to sing some children's songs (which, by the way, we did not sing at every meal in residence, and we were in the Family Corps, with kids present who LIKED singing children's songs. This kind of exaggeration hinders "innies" from giving credence to the ACTUAL crap that went on in twi, IMO.)
Step 3. Call them "kids" (never mind that you're old enough to be a grandfather to many of them and old enough to be a father to most).
Step 4. "Love-bomb" them.
Step 5. Have a personality. No cult will go far without someone with personality at the helm.
Etc., etc.
I have no doubt that twi went wrong, very very wrong, and that downfall began under VPW's dominion, even before the spit spewer danced onto the throne in tights.
Rather than a pat formula for how cults "work," though, I'd attribute how "cults" work to human nature. People gather in groups. People are drawn together because they have like interests. People are vulnerable to manipulation becuase they are human, and people manipulate other people because, well, they're human, too.
There is a striking similarity between the words cult and culture, isn't there?
I believe David Anderson said it best in a post long ago: Twi went wrong when VPW started believing his own PR. And we went wrong for the same reason. To wrap up how a cult (in this case twi) happens into a neat little package like this is as naive, in my opinion, as to wrap up your entire life in "the magic of believing." The pat, formula answers offered by the "cult experts" are just as insidious as any of the pseudo-research put out by twi.
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HCW
I understand Jim, you had no way of knowing my peeves.
Of course we can discuss this & even debate it if need be. It's not me giving you the chance, you have every right to post at will whether I like what you say or not.
If our viewpoints oppose, it will be food for though for anyone else. I don't entirely disagree with you. Wasn't entirely addressing you, I'm not good enough to express perfectly, so
lets have it it, AS FRIENDs or brothers would.
Hope you've had a good family day when you get back here. I'm off to church with the boys, myself.
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simonzelotes
Linda,...Please try not to be so sensible....or I may end up joining your cult....
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HCW
that was to you satori, the second part above.
One more caviot for you to adress.
What I'm really trying to express in some of this is that I'm beyond the blame piece.
I don't blame Kevin. I blame the devil.
As Linda Z intimated, the bottom line here, I think, is that we were ALL, in some way "...drawn away of our OWN lusts, inticed...."
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Linda Z
Simon:
Maybe. How much money do you have?
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simonzelotes
Ya got me there....10% of nuthin' is still nuthin'...
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Linda Z
10%? For a paltry 10% I wouldn't even spit outa your pick-up truck's window.
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simonzelotes
Now,now....keep my truck outa this....Let's try and be a little more sensitive around here,shall we?
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markomalley
A very astute observation, Howard. It seems to me that a lot of this stuff was about "tempting God."
I remember throughout my life being delivered from some pretty incredible situations. The stories are largely irrelevant here, but it seems like the laws of physics may have been stretched
:)--> I am sure that a lot of us can recall things like that happening throughout our lives.
The thing I find out about TWI in general, and LEAD in particular, is that people were put in crazy, dangerous situations not for any particular good, but just as a teaching exercise.
Now, Howard, I've done a lot of things in my past. While in the military, one of the things I've had to do (among thousands of others) was set up training. Sometimes very difficult, very physically, mentally, and emotionally trying training for people...in an effort to teach certain behavioral (doing), cognitive (thinking) and affective (believing) objectives. Some of the training involved classic military group skills (fire team, squad, and platoon level skills training), strategic and operational large group skills (up to theater level). Shoot, in one assignment, I even had to be qualified to be a high-ropes course instructor.
Anyway, in all of these situations, our first concern was to stress safety. Always. The second concern was the management of all events and all reasonably likely sequels to those decisions. We used to map out sequences of planned events on a timeline and then the decisions and their consequences on networks that proceeded from that basic timeline. By the time we were done with our planning, we'd have a spiderweb of a network diagram drawn so that those of us providing the training could keep control of the situation...first, to ensure safety, and second, to keep the training going where we wanted it to go.
I realize that LEAD is not military training but it does employ experiential learning concepts in order to teach whatever objectives they wanted to pass on. And I can tell you that they did not employ basic techniques to assure effective training. That's why you hear some people saying that it was the greatest thing since sliced bread and you have other people that said that it irreperably damaged them. Contingency planning is fundamental to experiential learning. I don't see that this was done. (Now, if there are some former LEAD instructors here, I will be happy to have them tell me that I'm wrong in that assumption)
Assuming that I'm correct in my assessment, the whole scenario reeks of:
You put people in dangerous situations and then say, if you believe, you'll get through it? Give me a break. If that's not tempting God, I don't know what is.
I think that you're assessment, "I don't blame Kevin. I blame the devil," is pretty accurate. But at what point did the devil have his input: in the essence of the Way Corps program with its learning objectives? in the essence of the the LEAD program with its objectives? For the condition of the road and/ or the weather conditions? Or a (possible) lack of concentration on driving in a dangerous situation?
Howard, I wasn't there. I don't know. All I know is that the situation you described is horrible.
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houseisarockin
Howard, I've done things that today seem unwise. At the time it was what I had to work with so I did the best I could. I certainly didn't mean to judge you and Kevin. I have some "emotional memories" of being dealt with carelessly. Placed in a position where I had to squint my eyes and strain my brain and just hope like heck I had God's protection on me, because I certainly had no business allowing myself to be placed in such a "senses" stupid place to be.
They set us up for that crap. Just believe God to see yourself be the victor in the situation. Well um, okay then I guess. But it sure would be nice if I could just have some of my money back and drive my own car back to the campus. How's that going to lesson my spiritual training any?
Howard, it's just the whole thing with them. The incredible careless way in which they handled our lives.
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outandabout
HCW:
Just a thought - After the LEAD accident, did anybody minister healing to anybody?
And when Craig came out, did he pray for anyone or minister to them or did he just talk about stuff and then go off the eat his breakfast "that would choke a horse?"
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J0nny Ling0
Hi all. Somewhere back in the depths of this thread, someone mentioned a girl who was raped while on the road, and how she never returned to Emporia. The incident sounds like an incident that happened during my first year in rez with the 10th Corps. I posted that incident over on the "Other LEAD stories" thread, but now I will post it here to see if anyone over here, knows more about it. First I will try and find that post that someone over here said about it.
Oh, here is that quote by Dagoo:
And so, Dagoo says that JAL brought it up, which causes me to think that maybe it happened during my last year in rez when the 12th Corps was in their 1st in rez year. at any rate, here is what I posted earlier on that other thread. I wonder if Ex 10 knows anything about it? Anyway, here is that incident as I remember it.
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Jim
No need at all. It's not the first time I've made that sort of mistake and I appreciate you reminding me of it.
Regarding the accident and "blame".
I've long been interested in bad accidents and how they come about. I read Flying magazine and the first things I turn to are "Aftermath" and "On the Record". Aftermath is a detailed analysis of one particular tragic accident and On the record is several summerized accident reports from FAA records. I'm also interested in accidents because I design and sell products that can be misused.
What I've learned is that virtually all horrific accidents are the result of two or three overlooked details that happened to converge on that particular day. In many cases, once the accident starts to unfold, it's too late for any corrective action.
I think this is what happened to your group. Trailers are notoriously unstable in gusty conditions, the vehicle was overloaded, and by the time Kevin realized the situation was out of control, it was too late to do anything about it. The only thing else I would add is that the vehicle was totally inappropriate for the job.
A couple of months ago my daughter came into my office, shaking and her face pale. She was on the freeway, following a pickup with a trailer. A gust of wind hit, the pickup and trailer fishtailed and the trailer flipped on it's side right in front of her. It was her first really close call as a driver.
I am truly sorry for your pain and loss.
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ex10
Johnny
I didn't know about the incident until our last year at Emporia, when the girl was sent to LEAD again. It just so happened she was in my twig at LEAD. She had alot of problems, and after we got back to Emporia, she left. That's when I found out what she had been through.
Her name wasn't Mary, though, and I have a BIG problem with posting a rape victim's name here.
:(-->
Evidently, when she and her partner were hitching to LEAD, they got a ride with a trucker. When he stopped at a truck stop, the corps guy got out of the truck to use the restroom, leaving the girl in the truck alone with the driver. He drove off with her, and raped and beat her. That's all I know.
It's a very, very sad story.
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excathedra
i'm confused reading all this back and forth
okay so sitting on the floor is not being treated like children
how 'bout being humiliated and treated worse than a child ? is that what christ was talking about ? if so, no thanks
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excathedra
and another thing (derail ? i don't think so)
why would wierwille tell me since i was 19 that he should "do the nasty" with me to help me over child sexual abuse ?
and when i told him time and time again i just couldn't see it or understand (crying my stupid head off)..... he finally healed me after a couple of drinks on the motor coach.....
do you think i should blame the adversary ?
i'm not trying to focus attention on myself please see that. if not, fine
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excathedra
two people i love here more than probably anyone are simonzee and linzee (uh oh they're in this together) but you .... me off !!!!!
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Jim
I am really, really sorry.
No.
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dmiller
To get back to the "over-loaded truck" aspect of this story, my experience wasn't much different. It was May of 1985 I went on LEAD, and it was one of those "traveling sessions" they held. The one I went to was in the Black Hills of South Dakota.
We all met at the local mall, parked vehicles there for the week, and transfered all our camping stuff into the LEAD vehicle. I don't remember what kind of truck they had, but it was a big one pulling one of those sturdy Wells Cargo trailers behind it.
They piled as many of us as they could in the back of their truck (there were about 25 to 30 of us on this session), and conscripted two other people (who had a full-sized truck, and a station wagon) to transport the rest of us to the starting point. Since all our gear was in the Wells Cargo trailer, they deemed two extra vehicles *enough* to get us all to the site.
We were packed like sardines in those two trucks, and the wagon. I was in the back of one of the trucks, and I still remember one guy saying on the ride -- "This is nuts. I for one wouldn't mind abundantly sharing a little gas to help out." We all agreed, but we didn't question the *thinking* behind it.
Since this was in '85 -- I guess they did not learn their lesson from your experience, HCW. The ride to the campsite was a pretty up-beat one despite the crowding. The ride home was subdued and silent. While we were out there, we were surprised to see a uniformed officer coming up the path, looking for "whoever is in charge here". It was from him that we learned docvic had passed away.
I don't remember who was running the show that week, but the name Kevin rings a familiar bell. He (or whomever) decided to cut the week short by one day, and we all headed back to the mall -- in the two trucks, and the one station wagon -- where they put us to work dividing up the supplies into daily meals, for the next session they were going to run.
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Linda Z
(((Exsie))
I love you a bunch, too.
Nothing I've said excuses him in any way for the horrid way he took advantage of your youth and trust. Nothing.
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excathedra
oh i know that linzee i'm not ....ed off anymore
**
sometimes it's just hard for me
i'm not a big "hunt down the cult" type person; i didn't even make it through that "best seller" (on here) book about the subtle power of spiritual abuse
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Grease Spot
HCW
Thank You for sharing your story.
I rearly come to GS I use to post on waydale (but not very often).
I just happened to read this thread and am sadden by all the destruction that was part of the daily operations of the way. I was in the 10th and left the 1st yr in. I was told I was also possessed and asked RT if I am why don't you cast it out, I was told there was no use because I would only let them back in and they would be more then I already had, so in essense he was doing me a favor. It was only by the grace of God that I survived, there was no waydale, gs or any support, not a whole lot of people were leaving back then. I spent year fighting not kill myself, because I still belived them to be right. I eventually came to know the truth and sites like this help in letting others know the truth.
Light does dispell darkness and make manifest thier deeds.
I understand how Rochelle came to belive she had no worth, they told her that.
I was told why didn't I just get a gun and blow my brains out, I would do God a favor. For many years I believed them and would cry myself to sleep, begging God to release me from this life.
I didn't kill myself because I didn't want the ministry to be blamed. How sick was I?
They were to blame!!!!!
Even though my reasons for not committing suicide were off, I'm thankful I stuck it out.
HCW
GS Regular
If they thought you were so damn possessed why didn't they cast the spirit out???
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excathedra
(((((((((( Greases Spot ))))))))))
i'm so glad you made it past midnight
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Grease Spot
Just another lie in a long list.............
Thank you, I am too..
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