Since good things can happen to the unjust, as they do to the just, then the fact that Mr. Doyle did not commit his life to the church is no suprise.
However, you know that this was a false healing. Much like the psychic healings, it could not be a true healing because Mr. Doyle was not in the Household of the Promised Land of the Prevailing Word. Most likely, Mr. Doyle died a horrible death sometime later. The experience he had with the cancer scare was just to magnify the works of the adversary, if you really think about it. After all, cancer is a devil spirit.
=================================
Bob --
When I had my first ultrasound of our second baby, the sonographer found a cyst on the baby's brain. It was a symptom of a condition that is fatal in babies, if they are ever born alive, called Trisome-18 - it's an extra chromosome, like Downs but more more serious, as it's fatal.
To make a long story short -- When we went to another hospital and had a high resolution ultrasound done, the tech there couldn't find the cyst at all. Two more physicians confirmed the tech's findings. We were so relieved!
Do bad things only happen to people who aren't with TWI?
Was the cyst there because we were no longer standing with TWI?
If so, why was it gone when we went for the hi-res ultrasound?
Did I dedicate my life to the hospital that did the hi-res ultrasound? No - they were just doing their job - they had nothing to do with that cyst being there or not!
There's no "logic" to what most people would call "fate". Things happen. TWI liked to super-analyze everything and either take ownship for it (only if it was "good") or blame it on unbelief.
=========================
On another side note - not to derail this - but I knew people who weren't really "healed" but just threw out their meds and jumped on the "I owe my life to PFAL" or whatever. They were still as sick as they were before but just masked it with a "twig face"! They thought that if they were on psychotropic meds it was because they had a debbil spirut and this was 'unacceptable' - (never mind the fact that chemical imbalances in their brains could even be proven with tests)! What a dangerous teaching that was!
Chas, I’m glad your baby was ok. That’s some story.
TWI’s spin on it would be:
A) You’re a current innie:
When first detected, you would be grilled for what is wrong in your life to allow the adversary access to your unborn baby.
When the second ultra sound was done, TWI would take credit for reproving and correcting you properly such that God could heal the baby.
B) You’re a cop-out:
When first detected, the adversary has complete access to your life because you left the household. If you had remained faithful, this wouldn’t have happened.
When the second ultra sound was done, it was a counterfeit healing done by the god of this world, such that you could be a thorn in the side to innies, a false witness that life outside TWI’s prevailing household is ok when in fact you are at the whim of the devil.
How come innies can’t see this logic? Are they so mesmerized that their brain can’t think anymore?
BTW: The Boston “branch” has managed to dupe enough people to run another class. Are there really that many people out there who don’t know how to use Google still?
TWI is basically taking the place of God and teaching people that they owe their lives to TWI - not God. They are taking credit for saving people's lives and not giving the credit to God where it belongs.
I was saved and became born again in the Baptist Church in my hometown. I DO NOT owe my life to that church NOR do I owe my life to the people who taught me to the point where I could decide to make Jesus Lord in my life. They have their reward - knowing that they lead someone to Christ. "Just doing my job" is the attitude one should have.
Someone really down who was picked up, taught great and wonderful things (although that's debateable), feels like they would be dead if it hadn't been for TWI is giving TWI too much credit IF they then feel obligated to stay with TWI despite no longer "having their needs met"; despite learning all kinds of evil things about the people running TWI; despite the fact that the actual people who spent time with you and brought you up are no longer with TWI; despite the fact that you are no longer happy, no longer healthy, no longer living the "more abundant life" they promised.
TWI has TWIsted and perverted loyalty to the point that the group itself is the idol. You OWE YOUR LIFE to TWI?? That's just down right evil. Teaching people that they are obligated and have no other choice than to stand with TWI and to "do the word" according to TWIsted interpretations is spiritual blackmail and just plain wrong! The sad thing is that there are so many still in who truly believe this.
Bob, I'm sure that class was probably mostly teens who had no choice but to take the class. ;)-->
Chas, I'm so glad everything worked out perfectly with your baby! :)-->
Pity TWIts can't see that God's blessings do fall on all of us and that all of us are worthy. :(--> It was exhausting trying to explain away people's joy who were "outside the household" when I was "in". It couldn't possibly be that they were living the way God would have them live! Not even my parents who are born again and live a better example than any wc leader ever dreamed of... Sheesh!
TWI is basically taking the place of God and teaching people that they owe their lives to TWI - not God. They are taking credit for saving people's lives and not giving the credit to God where it belongs.
Then they get so darned mad when they can't perform what they say they can do. Friggin idiots..
If you were around in the 1st century, following Jesus around, saw him executed, etc. You would have been a member of the 1st century church that was headed by James, Jesus’ brother.
Paul comes along about 20 years later, starts teaching things contrary to what James’ group teaches, starts allowing Gentiles in, etc. What do you do? Do you leave the group that taught you the Word to follow Paul?
According to TWI teaching, you would have remained loyal to James. You would have saw him murdered by the high priest in the temple area in 63 ad. Three years latter, you would have been participating in the Jewish revolt, fighting the Romans, taking control of the Temple for about 3 years. Then, when the Romans had had enough and destroyed everything in their path, including the temple, you would have most likely been crucified with the thousands of others, or fled for your life into what is now Iraq (where remnants of that group remain today, evolved as it is).
But oh! Hindsight is 20/20. You never would have stayed with James. You would have recognized that Paul was right. Sure! Not if you currently buy TWI’s logic. You would have gone down with the ship, as the current innies are committed to doing.
TWI is basically taking the place of God and teaching people that they owe their lives to TWI - not God. They are taking credit for saving people's lives and not giving the credit to God where it belongs.
Then they get so darned mad when they can't perform what they say they can do. Friggin idiots..
UNTRUE!
twi blames the PERSON, regardless of the situation.
If there's no jobs in an area, and the person can't get a job, it's
"lack of believing".
If the person gets sick because they got insufficient sleep working a
fulltime job plus a parttime job travelling to mandatory meeting all the time,
it's "lack of believing."
So, twi claims it always delivers on its promises-
the problem is its slaves fail to deliver on what twi claims they can
accomplish, no matter how impossible the benchmark.
The Boston “branch” has managed to dupe enough people to run another class
Really stinks when you have to stoop to the level of duping your own kids to run a class. "Here, you can be 'blessed' just like mom and dad (said with a glazed empty look in the eyes).."
Probably have the poor suckers earn the money for the class by cleaning the branch guys yard, cleaning out his pool, and digging out his antiquated septic system..
twi blames the PERSON, regardless of the situation
Well, I was alluding to more of the reality of the situation.
They have tried taking God's place. Blind obedience to leadership required case in point- and even God himself does not require such stupidity. When it does not work- they get madderenhell. They are "god", after all. Just CANT do any wrong. Have all the answers. And yes, they blame the individual- unfortunately.
"It does not work" just is not even in their vocabulary.
Bob, good choice- "you owe your whole stinking rotten miserable life to the outhouse that presented you 'heaps' on a steaming platter" is among one of my favorite dead horses to give a real workout, heh heh.
Relative to my own experience I was not in any type of crisis mode in my life when I encountered TWI. I saw young people like myself who were into the Bible and that was attractive to me so I checked it out. And while I met some good people while in TWI I give them the credit for that NOT TWI.
They were good people before they got involved in TWI.
For whatever reason lots of people defend TWI experience by claiming that made good friends. I've met some nice people down at the police station when I was bailing someone out of jail but I don't think that is my preferred way to make friends. You don't have to give years of your life to a cult just to make friends though some argue that. Besides those friends are of the fair weather variety. Once someone was M&Aed they saw just how fickle and uncaring those "friends" were.
One bit of Way speak that continues to bug me is the phrase "he/she has such a heart for god" and its typically employed to defend someone who was an ahole. Its like "well sure he was wrong and could be mean at times but he sure had a heart for god". We ALL had a heart for God which is why we were in TWI to begin with ! There are many people in churches the world over who have a heart for God ! But that doesn't give anyone an excuse to be mean to someone.
Back to the whole "TWI saved me". Yea I ran into people who were deep into drugs and booze and they cleaned up their act. One guy told me that he didn't know how to make up a bed properly until he joined TWI. Wow. (Such a great reason to champion TWI !). I suggested if thats the type of thing he wanted to learn he could join the army. Maybe TWI taught some people basic discipline and even personal hygeine though thats not the more common case. But even if TWI "lifted you out of the gutter" the goal of any life is to make progress - not sit around and wait to be told what to do.
But oh! Hindsight is 20/20. You never would have stayed with James. You would have recognized that Paul was right. Sure! Not if you currently buy TWI’s logic. You would have gone down with the ship, as the current innies are committed to doing.
This bears further discussion.
I actually presented this scenario to my now ex-wife. She insisted she would have crossed over to Paul. This is absolutely dishonest given her actions in the current. She has never even considered anything taught by someone else, especially if it disagreed with current TWI doctrine. If someone taught something that didn’t disagree with TWI but TWI never taught on it, she still wouldn’t consider it until TWI passed judgment on it. She would have never seen it back then, and certainly not now.
Current innies say there is nothing better out there. Hog wash! You haven’t looked. You haven’t considered. Even if there isn’t (which isn’t true), why would that justify staying where you are? If things aren’t right, do something about it. Either fix it, or cut your loses and move on.
I should stop quoting myself, people might think I have an ego ;)-->
If things aren’t right, do something about it. Either fix it, or cut your loses and move on.
TWI can't be fixed. Name one thing that an innie has gotten fixed in TWI in the last 20 years (or ever). There isn't one. Why?
If an innie challenges the elite higher ups on doctrine or practice, he is labeled rebellious. If he does not change his thinking to match theirs, he is shown the door (with a smile on their face since they are doing the "loving" thing).
If you're an innie and you see things aren't right, what are you doing about it? Waiting for someone else to take the initiative? Don't hold your breath. Don't get me wrong, people have tried in the past. A lot of them are here and they can tell you themselves how they were shown the door and the labels put on them afterward. But you will never hear what they tried to do within TWI. You will only hear how messed up they were.
You think you got what it takes to change TWI? You've committed your life to it. You might as well make it right if you're going to be there for the long haul. What are you waiting for? Scared?
Is this something really worth committing your life to?
In a lot of ways, I think the owing the stinkhole your lousy, meager existence is the true vey definition of "thankful" or "blessed". "I'm soooooo thankful..." What for? The answer I've heard nine times out of ten- "for the ministry that taught me da vord".
And "they" make sure that they are on the top of the prayer list. I know, I know, they put "God" on the top- nice custom, but in name only, in my opinion. Certainly not to put God first.
And, of course, if one steps back even a little further from the situation he could ask himself "Just what is it that ALMIGHTY GOD - creator of EVERTHING, needs with me?"
Imagine that the ants out in the anthill in your backyard have decided that you are their savior (though the disparity between ourselves and The Almighty is certainly greater than that). They've started dedicating huge portions of their lives to having meetings to talk about you and pray and beseech you for continued favor. Some have even given up everything they liked to do to attend those meetings and have worked out some other forms of self-denial in order to stay in your good graces. Uh, just how big of an impact is that going to have on you? Personally, I think I'd still soak the anthill down with gas and set it on fire.
George, you are the vengeful God of the Old Testament. :D-->
I like your analogy, but if I may, I’d like to tweak it a bit.
Assume you like ants. Assume also you started this ant hill and placed two ants in it, male and female. Assume also you left out the rules about eating from the wrong tree, etc.
You want to see your ant hill grow and multiply. You’re weird like that. But then, these ants start worshiping you like George stated. You are their God. They’re spending a lot of their time sitting in meetings, talking to other ants in neighboring ant hills, trying to get them to come live at theirs. But they’re not spending enough time working on their own. They’re not spending enough time building their own families. They’re renting ant hills from others when they could have their own.
You tell them to stop it. Just be ants and grow your own ant hill. Some agree but are then kicked out by the others, marked and avoided.
Damn it! I just wanted a nice ant hill. I wanted my ants to be ants! Not these robots going through the motions worshiping me.
In the end, maybe soaking the thing with gas and setting it on fire is the best thing to do. Damn ants won’t listen to me.
LOL! George, JustLoafing can probably help you with that fire. ;)-->
Bob, I'll try to save you from yourself! :D-->
quote:
I actually presented this scenario to my now ex-wife. She insisted she would have crossed over to Paul. This is absolutely dishonest given her actions in the current. She has never even considered anything taught by someone else, especially if it disagreed with current TWI doctrine. If someone taught something that didn’t disagree with TWI but TWI never taught on it, she still wouldn’t consider it until TWI passed judgment on it. She would have never seen it back then, and certainly not now.
They are a closed loop. The way they teach and think is like no one outside TWI is born again and no one could possibly GET born again outside of TWI. Of course, they say that's not true and that people are born again outside of TWI, but they ignore that part when they are trying to manipulate people into staying.
They are supposed to be a research ministry, but, as you said, Bob, the average "innie" will not even consider something that they haven't first heard from hq. I remember when I found out that Dot Moneyhands had been reading Joyce Meyer I thought, "Why does SHE get to read religious stuff not put out by TWI?" This is another area where they say they don't tell people what to do, but they do - it's just not as plain as "don't read, believe, study or consider anything unless we tell you to."
They are not a research "ministry," nor have they ever been. Give their "research" to people who do know how real research is to be done, and it would only be laughed at. Their research is based on so many invalid assumptions it's laughable.
Their biggest error with their research? Ignoring history, which they seem so hell bent on repeating.
Never understood why people thought that I thought we were redeemed by the blood of the lamb by the grace of God.What did people owe their life to prior to The Ways existence?
Things equal to the same thing are equal to each other.
Therefor: TWI's Household = God
--And (if I follow TWIt logic properly)--
If I owe my life to God, then I owe my life to TWI...
I was hoping someone would pop in some Bible verses to attach to this. Seems like no one agrees with TWI's logic, so I'll play Devil's advocate for awhile...
"You're life is not your own, you were bought with a price."
Bob, it's really not all that hard to follow the logic if one believes that twi was "the first centry church in the twentieth".
Yes I believed that at one point. I believe it was a movement of God at one point, just as if it were written in the bible. Folks got saved, we loved each other, had great fellowship, breaking bread, prayers, etc., just like in the book of Acts.
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ChasUFarley
The TWIt-er would respond with....
Since good things can happen to the unjust, as they do to the just, then the fact that Mr. Doyle did not commit his life to the church is no suprise.
However, you know that this was a false healing. Much like the psychic healings, it could not be a true healing because Mr. Doyle was not in the Household of the Promised Land of the Prevailing Word. Most likely, Mr. Doyle died a horrible death sometime later. The experience he had with the cancer scare was just to magnify the works of the adversary, if you really think about it. After all, cancer is a devil spirit.
=================================
Bob --
When I had my first ultrasound of our second baby, the sonographer found a cyst on the baby's brain. It was a symptom of a condition that is fatal in babies, if they are ever born alive, called Trisome-18 - it's an extra chromosome, like Downs but more more serious, as it's fatal.
To make a long story short -- When we went to another hospital and had a high resolution ultrasound done, the tech there couldn't find the cyst at all. Two more physicians confirmed the tech's findings. We were so relieved!
Do bad things only happen to people who aren't with TWI?
Was the cyst there because we were no longer standing with TWI?
If so, why was it gone when we went for the hi-res ultrasound?
Did I dedicate my life to the hospital that did the hi-res ultrasound? No - they were just doing their job - they had nothing to do with that cyst being there or not!
There's no "logic" to what most people would call "fate". Things happen. TWI liked to super-analyze everything and either take ownship for it (only if it was "good") or blame it on unbelief.
=========================
On another side note - not to derail this - but I knew people who weren't really "healed" but just threw out their meds and jumped on the "I owe my life to PFAL" or whatever. They were still as sick as they were before but just masked it with a "twig face"! They thought that if they were on psychotropic meds it was because they had a debbil spirut and this was 'unacceptable' - (never mind the fact that chemical imbalances in their brains could even be proven with tests)! What a dangerous teaching that was!
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Bob
Chas, I’m glad your baby was ok. That’s some story.
TWI’s spin on it would be:
A) You’re a current innie:
When first detected, you would be grilled for what is wrong in your life to allow the adversary access to your unborn baby.
When the second ultra sound was done, TWI would take credit for reproving and correcting you properly such that God could heal the baby.
B) You’re a cop-out:
When first detected, the adversary has complete access to your life because you left the household. If you had remained faithful, this wouldn’t have happened.
When the second ultra sound was done, it was a counterfeit healing done by the god of this world, such that you could be a thorn in the side to innies, a false witness that life outside TWI’s prevailing household is ok when in fact you are at the whim of the devil.
How come innies can’t see this logic? Are they so mesmerized that their brain can’t think anymore?
BTW: The Boston “branch” has managed to dupe enough people to run another class. Are there really that many people out there who don’t know how to use Google still?
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Belle
TWI is basically taking the place of God and teaching people that they owe their lives to TWI - not God. They are taking credit for saving people's lives and not giving the credit to God where it belongs.
I was saved and became born again in the Baptist Church in my hometown. I DO NOT owe my life to that church NOR do I owe my life to the people who taught me to the point where I could decide to make Jesus Lord in my life. They have their reward - knowing that they lead someone to Christ. "Just doing my job" is the attitude one should have.
Someone really down who was picked up, taught great and wonderful things (although that's debateable), feels like they would be dead if it hadn't been for TWI is giving TWI too much credit IF they then feel obligated to stay with TWI despite no longer "having their needs met"; despite learning all kinds of evil things about the people running TWI; despite the fact that the actual people who spent time with you and brought you up are no longer with TWI; despite the fact that you are no longer happy, no longer healthy, no longer living the "more abundant life" they promised.
TWI has TWIsted and perverted loyalty to the point that the group itself is the idol. You OWE YOUR LIFE to TWI?? That's just down right evil. Teaching people that they are obligated and have no other choice than to stand with TWI and to "do the word" according to TWIsted interpretations is spiritual blackmail and just plain wrong! The sad thing is that there are so many still in who truly believe this.
Bob, I'm sure that class was probably mostly teens who had no choice but to take the class.
;)-->
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Belle
Chas, I'm so glad everything worked out perfectly with your baby!
:)-->
Pity TWIts can't see that God's blessings do fall on all of us and that all of us are worthy.
:(--> It was exhausting trying to explain away people's joy who were "outside the household" when I was "in". It couldn't possibly be that they were living the way God would have them live! Not even my parents who are born again and live a better example than any wc leader ever dreamed of... Sheesh!
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Ham
Then they get so darned mad when they can't perform what they say they can do. Friggin idiots..
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Bob
What does history tell us?
If you were around in the 1st century, following Jesus around, saw him executed, etc. You would have been a member of the 1st century church that was headed by James, Jesus’ brother.
Paul comes along about 20 years later, starts teaching things contrary to what James’ group teaches, starts allowing Gentiles in, etc. What do you do? Do you leave the group that taught you the Word to follow Paul?
According to TWI teaching, you would have remained loyal to James. You would have saw him murdered by the high priest in the temple area in 63 ad. Three years latter, you would have been participating in the Jewish revolt, fighting the Romans, taking control of the Temple for about 3 years. Then, when the Romans had had enough and destroyed everything in their path, including the temple, you would have most likely been crucified with the thousands of others, or fled for your life into what is now Iraq (where remnants of that group remain today, evolved as it is).
But oh! Hindsight is 20/20. You never would have stayed with James. You would have recognized that Paul was right. Sure! Not if you currently buy TWI’s logic. You would have gone down with the ship, as the current innies are committed to doing.
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WordWolf
UNTRUE!
twi blames the PERSON, regardless of the situation.
If there's no jobs in an area, and the person can't get a job, it's
"lack of believing".
If the person gets sick because they got insufficient sleep working a
fulltime job plus a parttime job travelling to mandatory meeting all the time,
it's "lack of believing."
So, twi claims it always delivers on its promises-
the problem is its slaves fail to deliver on what twi claims they can
accomplish, no matter how impossible the benchmark.
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Ham
Really stinks when you have to stoop to the level of duping your own kids to run a class. "Here, you can be 'blessed' just like mom and dad (said with a glazed empty look in the eyes).."
Probably have the poor suckers earn the money for the class by cleaning the branch guys yard, cleaning out his pool, and digging out his antiquated septic system..
With a smile!
I have seen stuff like that..
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Ham
Well, I was alluding to more of the reality of the situation.
They have tried taking God's place. Blind obedience to leadership required case in point- and even God himself does not require such stupidity. When it does not work- they get madderenhell. They are "god", after all. Just CANT do any wrong. Have all the answers. And yes, they blame the individual- unfortunately.
"It does not work" just is not even in their vocabulary.
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Ham
Bob, good choice- "you owe your whole stinking rotten miserable life to the outhouse that presented you 'heaps' on a steaming platter" is among one of my favorite dead horses to give a real workout, heh heh.
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diazbro
Good posts here.
Relative to my own experience I was not in any type of crisis mode in my life when I encountered TWI. I saw young people like myself who were into the Bible and that was attractive to me so I checked it out. And while I met some good people while in TWI I give them the credit for that NOT TWI.
They were good people before they got involved in TWI.
For whatever reason lots of people defend TWI experience by claiming that made good friends. I've met some nice people down at the police station when I was bailing someone out of jail but I don't think that is my preferred way to make friends. You don't have to give years of your life to a cult just to make friends though some argue that. Besides those friends are of the fair weather variety. Once someone was M&Aed they saw just how fickle and uncaring those "friends" were.
One bit of Way speak that continues to bug me is the phrase "he/she has such a heart for god" and its typically employed to defend someone who was an ahole. Its like "well sure he was wrong and could be mean at times but he sure had a heart for god". We ALL had a heart for God which is why we were in TWI to begin with ! There are many people in churches the world over who have a heart for God ! But that doesn't give anyone an excuse to be mean to someone.
Back to the whole "TWI saved me". Yea I ran into people who were deep into drugs and booze and they cleaned up their act. One guy told me that he didn't know how to make up a bed properly until he joined TWI. Wow. (Such a great reason to champion TWI !). I suggested if thats the type of thing he wanted to learn he could join the army. Maybe TWI taught some people basic discipline and even personal hygeine though thats not the more common case. But even if TWI "lifted you out of the gutter" the goal of any life is to make progress - not sit around and wait to be told what to do.
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Bob
This bears further discussion.
I actually presented this scenario to my now ex-wife. She insisted she would have crossed over to Paul. This is absolutely dishonest given her actions in the current. She has never even considered anything taught by someone else, especially if it disagreed with current TWI doctrine. If someone taught something that didn’t disagree with TWI but TWI never taught on it, she still wouldn’t consider it until TWI passed judgment on it. She would have never seen it back then, and certainly not now.
Current innies say there is nothing better out there. Hog wash! You haven’t looked. You haven’t considered. Even if there isn’t (which isn’t true), why would that justify staying where you are? If things aren’t right, do something about it. Either fix it, or cut your loses and move on.
Life is too short.
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Bob
TWI can't be fixed. Name one thing that an innie has gotten fixed in TWI in the last 20 years (or ever). There isn't one. Why?
If an innie challenges the elite higher ups on doctrine or practice, he is labeled rebellious. If he does not change his thinking to match theirs, he is shown the door (with a smile on their face since they are doing the "loving" thing).
If you're an innie and you see things aren't right, what are you doing about it? Waiting for someone else to take the initiative? Don't hold your breath. Don't get me wrong, people have tried in the past. A lot of them are here and they can tell you themselves how they were shown the door and the labels put on them afterward. But you will never hear what they tried to do within TWI. You will only hear how messed up they were.
You think you got what it takes to change TWI? You've committed your life to it. You might as well make it right if you're going to be there for the long haul. What are you waiting for? Scared?
Is this something really worth committing your life to?
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Ham
In a lot of ways, I think the owing the stinkhole your lousy, meager existence is the true vey definition of "thankful" or "blessed". "I'm soooooo thankful..." What for? The answer I've heard nine times out of ten- "for the ministry that taught me da vord".
And "they" make sure that they are on the top of the prayer list. I know, I know, they put "God" on the top- nice custom, but in name only, in my opinion. Certainly not to put God first.
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George Aar
And, of course, if one steps back even a little further from the situation he could ask himself "Just what is it that ALMIGHTY GOD - creator of EVERTHING, needs with me?"
Imagine that the ants out in the anthill in your backyard have decided that you are their savior (though the disparity between ourselves and The Almighty is certainly greater than that). They've started dedicating huge portions of their lives to having meetings to talk about you and pray and beseech you for continued favor. Some have even given up everything they liked to do to attend those meetings and have worked out some other forms of self-denial in order to stay in your good graces. Uh, just how big of an impact is that going to have on you? Personally, I think I'd still soak the anthill down with gas and set it on fire.
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Bob
George, you are the vengeful God of the Old Testament.
:D-->
I like your analogy, but if I may, I’d like to tweak it a bit.
Assume you like ants. Assume also you started this ant hill and placed two ants in it, male and female. Assume also you left out the rules about eating from the wrong tree, etc.
You want to see your ant hill grow and multiply. You’re weird like that. But then, these ants start worshiping you like George stated. You are their God. They’re spending a lot of their time sitting in meetings, talking to other ants in neighboring ant hills, trying to get them to come live at theirs. But they’re not spending enough time working on their own. They’re not spending enough time building their own families. They’re renting ant hills from others when they could have their own.
You tell them to stop it. Just be ants and grow your own ant hill. Some agree but are then kicked out by the others, marked and avoided.
Damn it! I just wanted a nice ant hill. I wanted my ants to be ants! Not these robots going through the motions worshiping me.
In the end, maybe soaking the thing with gas and setting it on fire is the best thing to do. Damn ants won’t listen to me.
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Belle
LOL! George, JustLoafing can probably help you with that fire.
;)-->
Bob, I'll try to save you from yourself!
:D-->
They are a closed loop. The way they teach and think is like no one outside TWI is born again and no one could possibly GET born again outside of TWI. Of course, they say that's not true and that people are born again outside of TWI, but they ignore that part when they are trying to manipulate people into staying.
They are supposed to be a research ministry, but, as you said, Bob, the average "innie" will not even consider something that they haven't first heard from hq. I remember when I found out that Dot Moneyhands had been reading Joyce Meyer I thought, "Why does SHE get to read religious stuff not put out by TWI?" This is another area where they say they don't tell people what to do, but they do - it's just not as plain as "don't read, believe, study or consider anything unless we tell you to."
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Bob
They are not a research "ministry," nor have they ever been. Give their "research" to people who do know how real research is to be done, and it would only be laughed at. Their research is based on so many invalid assumptions it's laughable.
Their biggest error with their research? Ignoring history, which they seem so hell bent on repeating.
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Ham
Yep. I have heard that called "white man's fire".
You know- twenty gallons of gasoline, two or three cords of wood, and you still have a heck of a time getting the thing to go.
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ChasUFarley
(to the tune of "The Pink Panther")
Dead ant, dead ant....Dead ant...Dead ant.Dead ant.Dead ant.Dead ant.Dead annnttt!
(love the ant analogies)
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Raf
"I owe my life to the ministry?"
No.
The Way Ministry owes itself to our lives.
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WhiteDove
Never understood why people thought that I thought we were redeemed by the blood of the lamb by the grace of God.What did people owe their life to prior to The Ways existence?
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Bob
Raf,
So true. Without us, TWI was nothing.
BUT:
God = The Word
TWI's Household = The Word
Things equal to the same thing are equal to each other.
Therefor: TWI's Household = God
--And (if I follow TWIt logic properly)--
If I owe my life to God, then I owe my life to TWI...
I was hoping someone would pop in some Bible verses to attach to this. Seems like no one agrees with TWI's logic, so I'll play Devil's advocate for awhile...
"You're life is not your own, you were bought with a price."
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oldiesman
Bob, it's really not all that hard to follow the logic if one believes that twi was "the first centry church in the twentieth".
Yes I believed that at one point. I believe it was a movement of God at one point, just as if it were written in the bible. Folks got saved, we loved each other, had great fellowship, breaking bread, prayers, etc., just like in the book of Acts.
Why shouldn't I believe it? It's the same God.
It was easy for me to see the parallels.
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